Poppy

Just looking to improve my ability as a tank, care to help?

14 posts in this topic

Ok so on my warrior I'm having trouble with the current build im using as prot, it seems to me, that I'm quite spikey in terms of dmg intake. I just want to know if their is any suggestions on how to make my damage intake smoother. 

 

Heres my armory

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/dalaran/Poppysniffer/simple

 

WoW-heroes

 

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Dalaran/Poppysniffer/

 

^^ all the logs on that are as dps not tank so kind of irrelevant to look at. I look forward to getting some respones biggrin.png

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I would suggest changing from a mastery heavy build to dodge / parry.  That will let you generate a lot more rage, and allow you to use more shield blocks / barriers.  If you do not do a good job on your active mitigation, this build WILL be spikier than your current mastery heavy build.

The other advantage of the avoidance build is that you will end up with a lot more crit due to riposte.  Personally, I find the avoidance build way more fun because of all of the extra rage.

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I just starting tanking as prot as well. Iv been doing flex and have been mostly fine at 533 ilvl no cloak. I would like to go more avoidance than mastery though. What kind of numbers should i aim for? Like should I go more dodge than parry when reforging? I was thinking to try to have dodge less than 50% of parry, is this correct?

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I just starting tanking as prot as well. Iv been doing flex and have been mostly fine at 533 ilvl no cloak. I would like to go more avoidance than mastery though. What kind of numbers should i aim for? Like should I go more dodge than parry when reforging? I was thinking to try to have dodge less than 50% of parry, is this correct?

If you check out Esta's guide (sticky post in this forum), it has a pretty detailed section on reforging, particularly regarding dodge vs. parry

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I would suggest changing from a mastery heavy build to dodge / parry.  That will let you generate a lot more rage, and allow you to use more shield blocks / barriers.  If you do not do a good job on your active mitigation, this build WILL be spikier than your current mastery heavy build.

The other advantage of the avoidance build is that you will end up with a lot more crit due to riposte.  Personally, I find the avoidance build way more fun because of all of the extra rage.

So if I were to switch to more of an avoidance build my goal for mitigating dmg would be to maximize my uptime on Sblock and constantly refresh my Sbar? I switched from an avoidance build cause it seemed like there was too many Revenge procs from hold the line, it was a 1 button rotation with how much avoidance i had, so i opted to bring my mast to 50% (unbuffed) for the critical block, and went avoidance from there until i was comfortable with my rage gain. IF i decide to go back, what should my stats look like? As in how much parry and dodge i should have as well as a minimum amount of mastery? Sorry for  all the questions lol just trying to gain some insight 

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I'd really like to see some logs. Anything I saw here is going to be based on a ton of assumptions that may or may not be accurate. That said, if you're spiky as a warrior, then you are the reason that you are spiky. With (nearly) any build, you should have a significant SBlk uptime which will smooth out your damage intake. With an avoidance build, you should be prioritizing your SBlk during melee-heavy fights and layering SBar over with extra rage. Judging from a lot of logs I've seen in the past, you probably have a large amount of rage waste that you could be using to put SBars up when SBlk is on CD or even on HS if you're already fully covered.

 

One statement that I find a bit odd is where you say you felt that an avoidance-heavy build felt like a 1-button spam. That is not how prot priority should go. Shield Slam does massively more damage as well as Enraging you on crits. Prioritizing Revenge over Shield Slam gives you less damage output and less rage to mitigate spikes with. Also on the subject of playstyle is this: warriors are preemptive, not reactive. Most other tanks take damage and heal it back, warriors should not take the damage in the first place. Make sure you're keeping SBlk on CD whether you're actively tanking or not (though make sure you have a charge to use when you taunt) and be sure to not waste rage by letting yourself cap out. If you're at 80+ rage, use something. Also make sure you're using your SBars at 60 rage.

 

As for builds, if you want to go hard avoidance, go hard avoidance. There's no minimum mastery. For myself, I set my reforgelite to hit=exp>parry>dodge>mastery>crit. For gems, I go with parry in red, dodge in yellow and prismatic, and either parry/stam or dodge/stam in blue slots. The goal is to maximize you combined dodge and parry percent. Riposte is calculated purely off rating, but there's no point in wasting percent you could have by keeping on top of your diminishing returns.

 

The last thing to keep your eye on is your CD usage. CDs are for preventing "ohshit" moments, not compensating for them if you allow one to happen by not using a CD.

 

Have a nice night and let me know if you'd like any further help or clarification. =)

 

(Not sure if all that sounded harsh, didn't mean it to. It's been a long day and I'm out of it.)

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One thing I want to point out.

 

If you go heavy avoidance, as suggested, be aware that your DPS will ramp up with the high riposte and this will increase your threat generation. (Especially with the SS and Revenge dmg glyphs.) Depending on your co-tanks class you might need to regulate your damage after a tankswitch not to steal aggro. 

 

I'm personally way too familiar with this, as a DK with a Warrior counterpart. I just cant match his threat gen no matter what I do, so he usually has to wait a GCD or few after switches for me to establish reliable amounts of threat and vengeance to keep it before going all out again.

 

As a tank your job number one is to survive, and it just so happens that for warrs they also get increased damage from gearing towards it. Other classes might not.

Edited by Ceraius

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I'd really like to see some logs. Anything I saw here is going to be based on a ton of assumptions that may or may not be accurate. That said, if you're spiky as a warrior, then you are the reason that you are spiky. With (nearly) any build, you should have a significant SBlk uptime which will smooth out your damage intake. With an avoidance build, you should be prioritizing your SBlk during melee-heavy fights and layering SBar over with extra rage. Judging from a lot of logs I've seen in the past, you probably have a large amount of rage waste that you could be using to put SBars up when SBlk is on CD or even on HS if you're already fully covered.

I have no logs of me in prot, I main'd dps for a while, got my hands on a prot set and love it.

 

 

One statement that I find a bit odd is where you say you felt that an avoidance-heavy build felt like a 1-button spam. 

Thats how it felt to me yes, I would use one proc and would just come back up. should I have just avoided it altogether or use it as a quick fill on 20 rage when im short, and ignore at other times?

 

Also i do layer my Sblock with barriers...20 seconds into a pull my Sblock doesn't come off CD unless im preparing to block mutiple hits that one block won't cover, alot of times i will ignore Shield slam without a S&B proc is that bad or good?

 

And that was another problem, I had going full avoidance my off tank can't hold threat, on bosses where we switch im stuck white hitting the boss cause i hit like a mac truck.

 

Any other suggestions? Hopefully i touched on important parts that you asked about any and all input is appreciated.

 

Thank you for the replies.

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Im gonna ask the most typical gearing question. Tanked a flex last night and got gloves. Should i replace gloves over set raid finder gloves which would remove my 2pc set bonus? (i think its only 12 ilvl diff so im assuming no but wanted opinions)

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Im gonna ask the most typical gearing question. Tanked a flex last night and got gloves. Should i replace gloves over set raid finder gloves which would remove my 2pc set bonus? (i think its only 12 ilvl diff so im assuming no but wanted opinions)

Me personally, I would keep the 2 piece, and wait for another tier token of a separate slot to drop, then switch out, an armory link, and the item that dropped could help as well :D

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Thats how it felt to me yes, I would use one proc and would just come back up. should I have just avoided it altogether or use it as a quick fill on 20 rage when im short, and ignore at other times?

 

No. It's not something you should be spamming with every GCD nor is it something you should ignore. It's your secondary rage-generator, behind Shield Slam in priority.

 

 

Also i do layer my Sblock with barriers...20 seconds into a pull my Sblock doesn't come off CD unless im preparing to block mutiple hits that one block won't cover, alot of times i will ignore Shield slam without a S&B proc is that bad or good?

 

Don't ignore Shield Slam. S&B only gives you five extra rage. Not extra damage or anything. Shield Slam hits like a truck and can generate anywhere from 20-35 rage. With HR and SBlk active, it crits harder than Dragon Roar (Vengeance depending). If Shield Slam is on CD, Revenge is second, if both Revenge and Shield Slam are on CD, Devastate.

 

 

And that was another problem, I had going full avoidance my off tank can't hold threat, on bosses where we switch im stuck white hitting the boss cause i hit like a mac truck.

 

Your offtank isn't doing his/her job. Yes, you hit hard, but minor attention to your threat should be sufficient for them to hold aggro. You shouldn't have to go down to white hits. If they're a monk/druid, they're doing something very, very wrong. If they're a DK/pally, they need to be prepared. i. e. A pally could have 5 HP when it comes time to taunt in order to quickly put out two SotR. I'm not as familiar with DKs, but DRW can boost threat output and having some RP ready along with their Death Strikes should be able to squeak them by.

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Okay just so i get this right ill be hitting Revenge everytime i can't use shield slam, and if that is not available devastate until something becomes available? I think i get what you're saying but if i misread please fix where i'm misreading or misunderstanding.

 

 

My off tank has been a DK for the most part and he just can't hold threat i think, but he says that it's me and my dmg output. I;ve had her on focus and she will have dmg/threat cooldowns rolling and still can't hold threat...Misuse of abilities or lack of threat gen? 

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From my perspective as a longtime DK tank, your offtank is either not hit/exp capped, which would have a huge impact on threat generation, or isn't using the abilities that generate the most threat. Ideally, he should pool his RP until he taunts, pop DRW and spam several Rune Strikes to get aggro, then get a couple Death Strikes off to keep his dmg intake manageable.

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Right, Sheild Slam every chance you get. If you can't Shield Slam, then Revenge. If you can do neither, then Devastate. You'll want to keep Weakened Blows up and use your t4 talent appropriately as well.

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