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hova

Ascendance question...

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Hey all, i just recently started playing a resto shaman and i have a question regarding the best usage of ascendance. If i'm able to free cast while ascendance is on,and there's heavy raid wide dmg going on, what spell should i use? GHW, HS or Chain Heal? My initial guess would be chain heal, but does ascendance duplicates chain heal? Or am i better off just spammin a single target spell?

 

Tyvm in advance

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I believe it works on all your heals; precast Healing Rain, then spam Chain Heal for maximum throughput.  Ancestral Guidance, on the other hand, does not work with Healing Rain as I understand it, but does with all other heals.

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The best usage of Ascendence can be a tricky thing, first make sure you have raid members in range. Also, to really make the most out of this cool down, make sure you prepare:

 

  1. Pre-Hot as many targets with RT as you can (glyphed or not)
  2. Make sure you have HR down before (make sure to UE before)
  3. Make sure your totems go down right before so you can use every GCD in Ascendence on power heals
  4. Spam Chain Heal on your RT Targets if the damage is even on the group, Spam big heals otherwise, GHW/HS depending on how badly hurt people are. Remember that you get a buff to healing done on your current ES target.

Ascendence is also really powerful when combined with other CDs. I usually pair it with SLT or SWG. If you are using AG, then this is a really powerful combo. A good example is Protectors HC, when the group stacks for Sun's Desperate Measures, Pop a prepared Ascendence with AG and heal your butt off and watch the powerful heals really rock it here.

 

This is one of the most powerful cool downs in the game when used properly and with a bit of forethought. You will be underwhelmed if you just pop it and heal normally. So watch your logs after fights you used it on and see where you can get better.

 

As always, feel free to ask other questions and make sure to like the good answers.

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CptDan said exactly what I'd say here, so I'll just add that Elemental Mastery is also a really excellent talent to combine with Ascendance. Your throughput really skyrockets when you pop them together! :)

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CptDan said exactly what I'd say here, so I'll just add that Elemental Mastery is also a really excellent talent to combine with Ascendance. Your throughput really skyrockets when you pop them together! smile.png

Didn't even consider EM, I hardly ever take the talent but yes this is a great way to maximize it. Build a super healing CD. I could see this really being great if you ever found yourself solo healing. Which is something i'd like to try more one day.

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The best usage of Ascendence can be a tricky thing, first make sure you have raid members in range. Also, to really make the most out of this cool down, make sure you prepare:

 

  1. Pre-Hot as many targets with RT as you can (glyphed or not)
  2. Make sure you have HR down before (make sure to UE before)
  3. Make sure your totems go down right before so you can use every GCD in Ascendence on power heals
  4. Spam Chain Heal on your RT Targets if the damage is even on the group, Spam big heals otherwise, GHW/HS depending on how badly hurt people are. Remember that you get a buff to healing done on your current ES target.

Ascendence is also really powerful when combined with other CDs. I usually pair it with SLT or SWG. If you are using AG, then this is a really powerful combo. A good example is Protectors HC, when the group stacks for Sun's Desperate Measures, Pop a prepared Ascendence with AG and heal your butt off and watch the powerful heals really rock it here.

 

This is one of the most powerful cool downs in the game when used properly and with a bit of forethought. You will be underwhelmed if you just pop it and heal normally. So watch your logs after fights you used it on and see where you can get better.

 

As always, feel free to ask other questions and make sure to like the good answers.

 

1st of all thx for the answer. Very detailed.

2nd i can see the huge power behind ascendace+AG combo, but the question is, isn't rushing streams the talent to chose on that tier?

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1st of all thx for the answer. Very detailed.

2nd i can see the huge power behind ascendace+AG combo, but the question is, isn't rushing streams the talent to chose on that tier?

 

It depends massively on the fight, your healer composition, and to a lesser extent your stats.

 

AG is fantastic on fights where you simply need more cooldowns than you already have. It's great on burst-heavy fights and especially if you're 3-healing (in 10man) progression. On other fights, you might feel that the benefit of extra Healing Stream heals is better (and more efficient, which is important when 2-healing). Finally, if you're running with healers with regular burst cooldowns (Disc Priest, for e.g.) you'll find that the medium-power and frequent AG isn't really needed as much as the smart heals from HST.

 

Personally, I choose Rushing Streams for most Heroic fights up to and including Nazgrim. This is simply because we 2-heal almost all of our fights, so the extra smartheals and efficiency outweigh extra burst. This is very much a choice that you should be making for yourself, though. I don't think that there is a straightforward "correct" answer here.

 

Finally, I wouldn't advocate popping Ascendance and AG simultaneously for one important reason: Ascendance has a tendency to overheal a lot, and it will only do that more if you pop AG as well. If you're wanting to pop them both for burst, I'd suggest using them in sequence (Ascendance then AG) to prolong the burst - you could do this on Sum's Desparate Measures, for instance. Another example would be popping AG just before you phase Sun (to ensure everyone's topped; Calamity hits hard on Heroic) and then Ascendance for the bubble.

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Just to follow on to what stoove is saying:

 

Rushing streams is an amazing talent. The decision to use it or not is a balance of trade-offs. Rushing streams will give a steady stream of healing that is a smart heal (won't over heal much) The decision to use AG as opposed to Rushing Streams will rest solely on how the damage is incoming on the raid. If your damage taken is a smooth line with a few spikes then Rushing streams is great. If the damage is coming in large, predictable bursts, then AG would shine. 

 

I personally don't worry about over heal when I use the two cool downs together as I time it so that they get to work hard. If I use it it because either something went wrong and I'm buying time or because i'm taking over while other healers regenerate mana or the damage is just insane and we're under healing the encounter.

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Well I'm just thinking of Sun's DM phase on Heroic, and even 2-healing we don't need an extra cooldown on top of Vampiric Embrace -> Ascendance -> [insert Paladin Cooldown Here]. The burst really isn't all that bursty, weirdly.

 

Of course, the rest of the fight makes up for that, which is why I take Rushing Streams for Protectors Heroic instead :D

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So on sha for example, on Bursting pride on later phases of the fight when everyone has high pride lvls, AG would be a better choice here if i'm understanding correctly? Use it as some sort of Spirit Shell like cooldown?

Edited by hova

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Bursting pride?

 

I think you mean Swelling Pride (Bursting Pride is avoidable), but yes that would be an excellent time to use it.

 

Again, I personally run with Rushing Streams there because our raid runs enough cooldowns for it already. I like the sustained healing instead.

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I also wanted to add that, typically Rushing Streams is more powerful in 10m, and Ancestral Guidance is more powerful in 25m, just because of the odds of having 6 in your Healing Rain and the chance of additional targets needing a heal instead of running out of targets quickly and overhealing.

Edited by Hybrys

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I also wanted to add that, typically Rushing Streams is more powerful in 10m, and Ancestral Guidance is more powerful in 25m, just because of the odds of having 6 in your Healing Rain and the chance of additional targets needing a heal instead of running out of targets quickly and overhealing.

 

Ancestral Guidance doesn't replicate Healing Rain.

 

The reason I think AG is generally more effective in 25s than Rushing Streams is that it spreads out the healing you're doing more. That means that you're doing comparatively little healing on lots of targets, just like everyone else is in that situation. It basically means smoother healing for everyone (HST is rather spiky).

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Ancestral Guidance doesn't replicate Healing Rain.

 

The reason I think AG is generally more effective in 25s than Rushing Streams is that it spreads out the healing you're doing more. That means that you're doing comparatively little healing on lots of targets, just like everyone else is in that situation. It basically means smoother healing for everyone (HST is rather spiky).

Bah, humbug.

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I think you mean Swelling Pride (Bursting Pride is avoidable), but yes that would be an excellent time to use it.

 

Again, I personally run with Rushing Streams there because our raid runs enough cooldowns for it already. I like the sustained healing instead.

Yes i meant Swelling Pride.

And ty all for the help.

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Yes i meant Swelling Pride.

And ty all for the help.

 

Totally welcome! Remember that liking helpful posts makes the helpful people post more like that! ^__^

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Ok i got another question related to ascendance usage, so instead of opening a new topic, i'll just ask here...

On Thok, when we get to the phase where his stacks are high and it's almost impossible to cast and assuming i have all of the "pre-requisites" for ascendance down (HST out, HR down, 6 to 8 ppl with riptide rolling) what shoud i be doing then? Spam HS on the tank (cause he has Earth Shield on him) between each screech? Or just continue blanketing the raid with Riptide? What would provide the biggest healing output on this phase with ascendance up?

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Even on high stacks you should be able to exactly fit one Chain Heal between his shouts, and fill the rest with Riptide.

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Even on high stacks you should be able to exactly fit one Chain Heal between his shouts, and fill the rest with Riptide.

This... It takes some work to time right and a bit of lag could stuff it up, I also try to pop my fire ele and use his boost also.

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Don't be afraid to cancel the cast if it looks like you'll get interrupted though.

 

Here's a log of my last kill of Thok Normal, with Ascendance shown and casts of Chain Heal shown by the vertical lines. I'm not casting it constantly, but notice that I am casting it more or less uniformly throughout the fight.

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I was under the impression that i couldn't cast chain heal at that point of the fight. I'll have to try it and see how it goes. Bear in mind i'm from EU but playing on US servers. My ms is usually between 100-150. You think that will have a huge impact on trying to squeeze a chain heal in between screeches?

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With 100-150ms, I'd think it's doable. You just have to be really on point with your timings (make sure to pick your target before you cast, then watch Thok's castbar until he's just completed it, THEN cast as soon as possible). This definitely takes practice :) Thok's cast time is 3 sec with a 1.5 sec cooldown, so you should have plenty of time to get one cast in.

 

As I said, always be ready to cancel the cast just in case :)

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I agree with stoove above. I won't promise you that you won't have to cancel any casts of chain heal but it should be doable. If you find that you are just totally unable to chain heal due to latency or timing or what not. Use quick fast spot healing like Healing Surge. This is def a last resort method but could mean keep the group up. Just watch your mana if you switch to this and be ready with a Mana Tide or an external mana CD (innervation) on you. For the most part just learning to weave the chain will give the best results but there are backup options.

 

On a side note, i'm loving how this discussion is shaping up.

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Ok, guess i'll try the chain heal on the next reset. Thx for the help guys ^^

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