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Recklessfear

Speculation on Demonology changes for WoD.

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How do you think demo will be altered pending snapshot removal?

 

Any changes you think should be made? 

 

Small reworks to specific abilities? 

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I'd really like to see the potential for a good opener like almost everyone else. Either start us at a higher amount of fury or bake in the T15 2pc to Dark Soul.

 

I feel like 600-700 DF would be a good starting point.

 

Also, along the same lines of bursting, maybe buff our filler/ToC?

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I'll tell you one thing - Demonbolt needs to go before it's even a thing.  They talked about removing button clutter from all other specs and give another spell to one of the most complex casting classes in the game.  Forget that noise.

 

Without snapshotting, Demo actually becomes the least finicky of the specs.  Remember, all DoTs will be retuned to incorporate dynamic updating.  It will make the spec far less interesting as it will make Affliction even more less interesting.  If all other things are left unchanged, the class will be simpler without worrying about the spell power of Doom.  I'm hoping Grimoire of Sacrifice NEVER becomes viable for Demonology like it was in Throne of Thunder.  I hope there is a central fix to the Wild Imps so that their damage contribution isn't tied to the RNG of Doom crits.  I personally like the windows of DPS for Demonology where you sustain and then burst - it's like the old Arcane Mage.  It brings some flavor to the spec while snapshot removal removes some flavor. 

 

If the T7 talents are done correctly, Demo should be fine with very little changes.  I'd like to see Doom ticks always spawn an Imp and make them more powerful and remove the concept of Demonic Calling.  This would further devalue Haste and give Demonology more flexibility in its stats since right now you have to pump Haste to get more Imps for more DF, etc. 

 

I want to see the 2pc T15 baked into Dark Soul where it made things cost 30% less DF.  You were actually able to do an opener with this and it was awesome.  Having to drop out of Metamorphosis during Dark Soul in your opener feels awful.

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I would really love to see t15 2pc become standard, much more than a higher starting point for fury. 

 

Although I see like 700k openers a demo with bboy. I worry with the t15 bonus it'd get a bit out of hand. Maybe 20% less DF?

 

Also I 100% agree about demonbolt. Already feel the bloat as demo, and we're adding more? 

 

I'd like to see doom always spawn an imp, it just feels like demonology toting around an army of imps. Although this could present a serious problem for PvP.

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Nah, let Doom always pop an Imp and remove Demonic Calling.

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Nah, let Doom always pop an Imp and remove Demonic Calling.

 

Though I like this idea, since it would allow  a more fluid gameplay even at low gear level, I don´t think if they plan something like adding a base-crit chance to Doom via Draenor Perks, they would actually do this. Maybe they could work something out with this new stat Readiness, reducing the cooldown on DC.

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It is going to be interesting to see how they balance lack of snapshotting.  As it stands right now snapshotting your High int high crit opening doom is the name of the game.  Not only does it provide a huge chunk of your dmg but its spawns your fury fueling imp army.  I dont think a base crit of 20% can make up that gap.

 

Loss of Carrion Swarm, Void Ray, Felstorm being pulled off Felguard, and the potential we may no longer even use felguard means our burst AoE will be toned down as well, if that gets compensated for is still yet to be determined.

 

I don't see Demonbolt yet.  Still have not had that "ooooh that's what the fuck its supposed to do" moment yet.  I think we really need clarification on what they are thinking with this talent, since I've seen nothing yet among the most prominent theorycrafting threads.  What is the point of the fury store mechanic?  In a world of Damage Per Execution Time and Damage Per Resource... this spell seems a little lost right now.

 

Cataclysm looks smexy!  Really excited for this talent, especially a quick way to toss Corruptions up, good precast opener spell!

 

Demonic Servitude could be the go to for single target if they implement it correct.  As it stands loss of your 10 min CD is not really losing much lol.  A demo lock who's stats buff pets better, GoSup/GoServ with Servitude could be some serious pet dmg..... but again... losing a talent to get a talent.  Stupid design IMO regardless of how cool it could be to have perm guardians.  Still need clarification for this one though, will be just summon a doomguard on pull and he goes to town with no pet bar as now?  or will it be a full on replacement pet.

 

I personally would like to see Shadowflame dot extended just a little.  I love the weaving complexity of the spec, but for flow i think it would be better if you had a few more seconds between dropping HoG charges.

 

Opener needs to be addressed.  Best solution IMO is simply baking in that T15 tier bonus.  I also dont see how giving us a bit higher starting fury would swing balance much.... 300 would be better, giving you a few extra casts.

 

IMO RNG of imps based on Doom crits will forever have this spec being OP in some situations and UP in others.  I actually think the opposite of Zag, they should BUFF demonic calling and remove the rng imp spawns from doom if they wish to smooth out imp dmg and fury spikes.  The number of targets will never allow you to manipulate the rate you get imps.  Perhaps even a compromise would be having Doom crits reset demonic calling CD to help keep imps in line during multi target situations but still allowing additional targets to increase specs potential dmg.

 

That's about all I've got for now.

Edited by Soulzar

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It's going to be a replacement pet. I can't find the tweet but they're working on giving them unique abilities too.

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It's going to be a replacement pet. I can't find the tweet but they're working on giving them unique abilities too.

That talent can suck my balls.  Replacing any pet with a Doomguard or Terrorguard just feels lazy and dumb.

 

Unless they bring back all of their abilities they used to have.  What was it, Terror Stomp?  I remember my Doomguard being able to cast Rain of Fire.  Something else, too...

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It's going to be a replacement pet. I can't find the tweet but they're working on giving them unique abilities too.

Maybe something like:

Demonic Ritalin:

Forces your Doom- or Terrorguard to cast his Doom Bolt with his whole attention on your current target. If you have any questions about risks and side effects, please read the demon information grimoire and ask your local warlock trainer.

"Not fully researched yet..."

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That talent can suck my balls.  Replacing any pet with a Doomguard or Terrorguard just feels lazy and dumb.

 

Unless they bring back all of their abilities they used to have.  What was it, Terror Stomp?  I remember my Doomguard being able to cast Rain of Fire.  Something else, too...

It's the 'noob' talent of the tier. At least I hope so anyway.

 

It's a passive option, and should net easy dps for lesser skilled players, but one would hope that Cataclysm or Chaotic Resources would net higher dps with proper play.

 

If it becomes the default option then meh, I can live with it.

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What makes me think about D. Servitude is that Readiness for Warlocks will make Dark Soul and Summon Doomguard with less CD - and a few other defensive abilities - this would make D.Servitude weaker if we have some amount of Readiness

Edited by JvChequer

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Unless they bring back all of their abilities they used to have.  What was it, Terror Stomp?  I remember my Doomguard being able to cast Rain of Fire.  Something else, too...

http://www.wowwiki.com/Doomguard_(warlock_minion)

Dispell(Friends and Foes), Rain of Fire, Warstomp and Cripple, that would make the Doomguard OP but cooler anyway

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If they're going to make Doomguard our personal pet, they should bring back Russian Roulette with it, too.

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http://www.wowwiki.com/Doomguard_(warlock_minion)

Dispell(Friends and Foes), Rain of Fire, Warstomp and Cripple, that would make the Doomguard OP but cooler anyway

 

I remember him just running around in AV crippling players and RoF randomly places.  haha good ol days!

 

If Perm doomguard had all those abilities... I wouldn't miss Felguard much :P

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Well Felguard is losing felstorm.

 

This opens up all pets for Demonology, which is actually pretty nice.

 

Reduces the burst AoE somewhat, but I can live with that if it's increased passively again (bumping hellfire/immo aura back up or giving shadowflame a longer duration etc).

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Warlock "Stampede" ...  Instead of Service, summons all pets.. they instantly seduce, dispel, stun, silence, disarm, cripple, and aoe your target..

 

Would be perfectly balanced IMO ;)

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I'll tell you one thing - Demonbolt needs to go before it's even a thing.  They talked about removing button clutter from all other specs and give another spell to one of the most complex casting classes in the game.  Forget that noise.

 

Without snapshotting, Demo actually becomes the least finicky of the specs.  Remember, all DoTs will be retuned to incorporate dynamic updating.  It will make the spec far less interesting as it will make Affliction even more less interesting.  If all other things are left unchanged, the class will be simpler without worrying about the spell power of Doom.  I'm hoping Grimoire of Sacrifice NEVER becomes viable for Demonology like it was in Throne of Thunder.  I hope there is a central fix to the Wild Imps so that their damage contribution isn't tied to the RNG of Doom crits.  I personally like the windows of DPS for Demonology where you sustain and then burst - it's like the old Arcane Mage.  It brings some flavor to the spec while snapshot removal removes some flavor. 

 

If the T7 talents are done correctly, Demo should be fine with very little changes.  I'd like to see Doom ticks always spawn an Imp and make them more powerful and remove the concept of Demonic Calling.  This would further devalue Haste and give Demonology more flexibility in its stats since right now you have to pump Haste to get more Imps for more DF, etc. 

 

I want to see the 2pc T15 baked into Dark Soul where it made things cost 30% less DF.  You were actually able to do an opener with this and it was awesome.  Having to drop out of Metamorphosis during Dark Soul in your opener feels awful.

Playing demo for fun now that i'm max NM level, i rage at the amount of micromanagement i have to do to be a subpar dps, and everything you listed is the right thing to do.

 

My 4 main gripes are:

- fury starving before and during the fight

- Doom snapshotting breaking DM generation;

- Fire Soul too expansive to cast in either form;

- AOE ability powerful but short due to fury cost

 

Regarding demonic fury opener, it could be like what balance druid have : they can choose to go full moon/full sun before a fight stars iirc, we could have a 10 min CD out of combat fury generator spell for pre-fight, or we could simply start with 2/3 of the bar full.

 

However i think destrolock having been "too" important during MoP, the class will not be top dog in WoD. Emphasys in Alpha seem to be on classes that were subpar this Tier.

Edited by Terris

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