CM advice please

9 posts in this topic

I know there's a thread further down in here, but it doesn't really answer the questions I want to ask. Just to get that out of the way :)


So, my CM group just finished gold on our intendeds and decided that we would go for another round of golds on new characters. Our group comp will be a brewmaster tank, resto druid, frost mage, elemental shaman, and myself with a rogue. I have about a week to grab what I can out of ToT, and I'd like to get myself set straight before I go throwing expensive enchants on ilvl 502 gear. Not to mention actually knowing what to keep and toss.


Now to the questions:


1) I see combat suggested as the go-to spec. Why is this the case? I was under the impression that assassination beat it out when dealing with more targets than combat can cleave onto.


2) I've accepted that I am likely going to be the utility DPS of the group. I'm planning to use paralytic poison, glyph of sharpened knives, and probably the expose armor glyph as well. But is it really worth using either of those glyphs with this group makeup? Should there be other utility glyphs or talents I consider too? (I am considering smoke bomb too right now)


3) Is there a point to stopping to switch secondary poisons mid run? Take one of the scarlet dungeons for instance, where there's lots of casters. Worth switching between mind numbing and paralytic on the fly or should I stick to one or the other?


Any answers, and any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

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I have not explored the challenge modes, so my answers will be limited to my normal class knowledge. Anyone who has gone through the challenge modes please add your thoughts as well.


1. Combat would be the preferred AoE spec because the multi-target damage is instant damage, whereas Assassination AoE relies on ticking poison damage and ticking Crimson Tempest damage. In a CM scenario, the mobs aren't going to be alive long enough to take advantage of the Assassination AoE style damage.


2. Alright, glyphs. If you are going to be Combat spec and you are planning to make good use of your utility poisons, I would consider using Glyph of Blade Flurry for 30% increased non-Lethal poison application. Your tank will bring the sunders, so no need for Glyph of Expose Armor. Glyph of Sharpened Knives may not be worth since you and the tank are the only physical damage dealers. Glyph of Blind and Glyph of Gouge could be useful if you ever intend to control something, but this may not come up in your situation. Glyph of Smoke Bomb is probably not worth the glyph slot for an extra 2 seconds. Most damage you would be mitigating is instant AoE, not damage over 5+ seconds.


Here's what I would take (again this is not from experience):

Glyph of Blade Flurry

Glyph of Shiv

Glyph of Sprint


3. I would stick with Paralytic unless you're getting shredded by mass caster fire. 

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This is what I ran for CMs on my Rogue.  Combat is best because of how easily it scales down to that level, along with it's on demand burst and moderately powerful cleave.  You won't have too many pulls where you're over 6 targets.




Blade Flurry - Spread that stun.

Smoke Bomb - Increased time of a 20% CD is always nice.

Feint - Constant damage reduction for AoE that hurts, easy to use.

Swap Smoke Bomb for Redirect if you don't think you'll need it.




Shadow Focus is standard.

Nerve Strike is nice when there's a particularly hard hitting pull.

Cheat Death and Elusiveness is swapped based on personal preference.  I don't use Feint often enough, so I prefer Cheat Death.  Good usage would see Elusiveness' value close.

Burst of Speed is great for on demand movement.

Paralytic is nice.  Enough said.

Anticipation of course.

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Thank you for the advice so far guys.


Should I nix expose armor from my list of 'things I may need to do' then? Brewmasters don't bring sunders naturally but he's also going to be the only other physical DPS in the group.


I shall in the meantime try to get a better weapon than a blue for a combat mainhand.

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Thank you for the advice so far guys.


Should I nix expose armor from my list of 'things I may need to do' then? Brewmasters don't bring sunders naturally but he's also going to be the only other physical DPS in the group.


I shall in the meantime try to get a better weapon than a blue for a combat mainhand.

Yeah, I wouldn't be using Expose Armor at all.  I think it's a waste of the GCD and energy.

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Just finished Challenge Modes on Rogue last night.  7th character I've taken through, so I kinda knew ahead of time when I was using CDs and such.


For talents, Paralytic Poison and Anticipation are required along with the Glyph of Blade Flurry.  Paralytic Poison stunned so many adds that it felt borderline cheating.  Anticipation is really only going to come into play when you're using AR and SB - otherwise, you'll dreadfully watch your energy bar crawl while Blade Flurry is up on trash.


For Tier 1, I stuck with Nightstalker, but the difference is negligible since you'll be saving Vanish for emergencies and stuns.  Nerve Strike is nice to get pesky mobs ripped through.  Elusiveness is key for reducing a lot of AoE abilities.  Cheat Death is a passive that really shouldn't activate unless you make a mistake.  Being proactive with Feint will make you invisible to your healer.  I used Cloak and Dagger for closing distance on things.  Burst of Speed is unnecessary because you'll never be running ahead of your tank.  It's not like you have to run ahead and get mana...


Glyph wise - Blade Flurry is a must.  Redirect is a must.  If you're a good Rogue, you'll be swapping targets often to get Blinds, Kidney Shots, Kicks, and Gouges in.  10 second CD on Redirect is key to not wasting Combo Points.  If you're not using Blind, Gouge, KS, or Kick, quit holding your group back.  Smoke Bomb filled out my 3rd slot, but when utilized, it often wasn't needed.  If Smoke Bomb is planned for the larger pulls in CMs, if it's used as a preventive measure instead of a reactive measure, you'll be fine with 10 seconds to free up a glyph slot for something else.


Other good information is to find your best DPS and use Tricks on CD.  Rogues don't have the versatility and AoE of other classes such as Hunters, Elementals, Warlocks, etc.  In order to compensate for your lower damage, make up for it by buffing someone else in your group for a measly 5 energy.  Keep Slice and Dice up or forever regret it because your Energy Bar won't move.  Track Blade Flurry to make sure you're not using it against one target.  Get really comfortable with Kidney Shot, Vanish + Cheap Shot, Gouge, and Blind to go along with Kick.  You should work with your tank to get an interrupt rotation.  For bosses, you'll only have kick.  For trash, which usually presents bigger issues, you can COMPLETELY remove an enemy by using Kick, Kidney Shot, Gouge, and Blind to interrupt casts.  All 3 abilities have relatively short CDs, so make up for your DPS by removing stress from healers and allowing tanks to do vengeance DPS instead of trying to survive.  Use Evasion to counteract whirlwind type abilities - it works as long as you're BEHIND the target.  Remember, it increases DODGE, not parry, so if you're standing in front of a whirlwind ability, you'll still get crushed.


Dungeon Specific Information


Gate of Setting Sun


Pop all CDs on first walkway.  Use Smoke Bomb to mitigate bad mines, use Killing Spree, AR, and SB to nuke adds quickly.  Use a DPS potion to melt these adds.  Rest of dungeon is a joke.




Nothing to note here specifically.  Blade Flurry is huge on the big packs you'll pull.  Only bad pulls are if you do all the Candlestick Mages together - don't use Smoke Bomb here because you'll want it for trash around the skeleton boss.  Just spread Paralytic Poison like it's going out of style.


Scarlett Halls


Only one bad pull and that's the hallway past the 2nd boss.  7 mobs means you'll be busy.  Watch for the casters to be casting slow spells.  The slower the spell cast, the harder it hits.  If these aren't interrupted, your tank could die.  Gouge, KS, Vanish + CS, and Blind help TREMENDOUSLY.


Scarlett Monastery


Don't die on the first boss.  When those adds get close to dying, watch out - they will one shot you.  Tank is going to have to kite for you.  Only hard trash pull comes directly after first boss and mirrors the big pull in Scarlett Halls.  Smoke Bomb + Rogue stuff to mitigate damage.


Jade Temple


No bad pulls here - steady DPS wins the race.


Mogushan Palace


This dungeon is awful for melee.  First room/hallway has lots of whirlwind enemies.  Safely enter the fray with Evasion, but be weary of its duration and mob orientation.  After first hallway, instance is steady going.  After coming up elevator, use Shroud of Concealment to bypass 4 patting enemies - you won't need them for count.  Shroud should take you all the way down the next hallway past the two big guards into the last room with the 4 mobs and 4 dogs and final boss. 


Shado-Pan Monastery


First room sucks for melee.  Use Evasion and Cloak to avoid damage.  Rest of dungeon is rather relaxed.  On Sha of Violence, pool your CDs until you get 4-5 stacks or he hits 55-60%.  Pop everything and nuke him. 


Stormstout Brewery


Another one crappy for melee.  First room, go nuts with Blade Flurry and KS while ranged take out the flying mobs.  Run barrels into first boss - watch for cleave stun.  On 2nd boss, be the hammer bitch.  Use Shroud to help your teammates bypass the mobs in the distillery room.  Watch for Suds and Bloat so you don't hit your tank.


Siege of Nizuao Temple


Surprisingly good dungeon for melee.  Feint is HUGE for when the blobs die.  Enjoy not taking much damage here.  Cloak in an emergency.  Use stuns on the weavers because they can create problems.  Throw bombs on 2nd boss and do your normal stuff on last boss.


All Dungeons


Interrupt, Stun, and Silence anything that you can at every opportunity.  The more you do of that, the less time healers spend getting mana, the fewer CDs tanks have to utilize to survive, and the more seconds you shave off.  Don't be discouraged from Recount/Skada - you're not there to bring heavy damage.  You're there to bring GOOD damage with a plethora of utility.

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Yeah, Zag usually posts his thoughts after a run into the most recent CM post...


It's still valuable, though, so if you have anything to add, please do!  Just more general things rather than specific to them.

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