Thoughts for the guardian guide

[madar 2]

hello, i just read your guardian guide, and i would note a few things

- there is another important major glyph, what boosting faerie fire:

Glyph of Fae Silence: Faerie Fire used in Bear Form also silences the target for 3 sec, but triggers a 15 sec cooldown.

- a huge missing at the rage generation part, there is no mention about the rage generation from incoming hits. You say must understand how is works, then explain only half. Forgive me if this only MOP change, and in MOP there is no more rage from incoming damage, but i would say is still give, from the few tests what i made on PTR:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Rage

Rage can be generated with several different methods. The primary cause of rage generation is by being attacked, which varies based on damage taken. Attacks that are blocked, parried, or absorbed (as with Power Word: Shield) also generate rage.

- there is no mention at all about the self heal by the leader of the pack at every critical strike attack. This is the main point why you want to crit as much as possible. The reforging order is still good, until around 44% crit you would prefer crit rating, above 44% hit\expertise - but is depend on the target too - you tank hc-5-instances or raid.

My personal opinion:

- on the tier2 talent i would prefer renewal over nature's swiftness. I cannot agree with the "More importantly, it will be a practically mandatory choice if you will be relied-upon to use Rebirth, since you really cannot afford to channel for 2 seconds while out of Bear Form otherwise." Bears in the past used rebirth with shifting out, if was needed. This talent ofc is a big help if you goin to battle-res, but at char. making we can't build up tactic\talent what based on future mistakes (someone dies and will need to res). Even if need to use rebirth, can be managed during tanking in most of the fights.

- the stamina is important, yes, but i would not say this is the 'most' important. Depend on what you tankin', the common suggestion, that you should have enough HP for 3 hits from the boss whay you tank. If you have heal on you, it's enough time to heal you up. In the past content (except some special event or hc25) it was mean the stamina what you get from gear, is enough alone without any special gem\enchant\trinket, and for the heavy bosses you can swap trinkets.

[Vlad 411]

hello, i just read your guardian guide, and i would note a few things

- there is another important major glyph, what boosting faerie fire:

Glyph of Fae Silence: Faerie Fire used in Bear Form also silences the target for 3 sec, but triggers a 15 sec cooldown.

While I understand how this glyph could sometimes be useful... the situations are so limited that it would just clutter the guide to include it. The whole idea is to make the guide supple, and to try to "trim" all the information present in game, so that players can simply see that which is worth mentioning.

I for one cannot see any situation where this glyph is "important". It's a glyph with some situational uses (mostly to get cast trash mobs to come to you, I guess), but I cannot see it ever being considered a core glyph.

- a huge missing at the rage generation part, there is no mention about the rage generation from incoming hits. You say must understand how is works, then explain only half. Forgive me if this only MOP change, and in MOP there is no more rage from incoming damage, but i would say is still give, from the few tests what i made on PTR:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Rage

Rage can be generated with several different methods. The primary cause of rage generation is by being attacked, which varies based on damage taken. Attacks that are blocked, parried, or absorbed (as with Power Word: Shield) also generate rage.

There is no more rage generated from damage taken. That's over, it's a thing of the past and it's no longer present in Mists of Pandaria. It's something that you can easily test on the Beta. The means of generating rage that we list in the guide are complete (abilities, attacks/crits). I suppose you could argue that shifting into Bear Form (which grants 10 rage) is not strictly an ability, but we feel that it makes little impact to mention it.

By the way, the website you listed is heavily outdated.

You say that you notice that rage is generated from taking damage, "from tests on the PTR". I don't have access to the PTR (no one with Beta access does), so I cannot combat your claim, but I am very hesitant to believe it. I'd ask you to try to test it again, and see if it really is the case.

- there is no mention at all about the self heal by the leader of the pack at every critical strike attack. This is the main point why you want to crit as much as possible. The reforging order is still good, until around 44% crit you would prefer crit rating, above 44% hitexpertise - but is depend on the target too - you tank hc-5-instances or raid.

We will consider including a short mention of this in the guide. We generally do not mention passive procs that play no part in your gameplay, because they just clutter the guide and make it more confusing for players to understand. How does it improve your tanking ability in any way to know that you're getting tiny heals every now and then?

Anyway, as I said, we'll consider adding it :)

My personal opinion:

- on the tier2 talent i would prefer renewal over nature's swiftness. I cannot agree with the "More importantly, it will be a practically mandatory choice if you will be relied-upon to use Rebirth, since you really cannot afford to channel for 2 seconds while out of Bear Form otherwise." Bears in the past used rebirth with shifting out, if was needed. This talent ofc is a big help if you goin to battle-res, but at char. making we can't build up tactictalent what based on future mistakes (someone dies and will need to res). Even if need to use rebirth, can be managed during tanking in most of the fights.

It might be ok to shift out of Bear Form for a Rebirth in dungeons or non-progression raids, but I don't think you'd ever want to do that on progression encounters. You might survive, but it's a big risk. Also, if you pay attention to the wording we use in the guide, we never say that Nature's Swiftness is better than Renewal. Personally, I prefer Renewal myself, but you cannot deny the benefits of Nature's Swiftness, especially if you might have to cast Rebirth.

- the stamina is important, yes, but i would not say this is the 'most' important. Depend on what you tankin', the common suggestion, that you should have enough HP for 3 hits from the boss whay you tank. If you have heal on you, it's enough time to heal you up. In the past content (except some special event or hc25) it was mean the stamina what you get from gear, is enough alone without any special gemenchanttrinket, and for the heavy bosses you can swap trinkets.

I agree with you. Which is why we mention a "cap" for how much Stamina you should have (15,000 in entry level raiding gear at level 90, which, you will find, is a very sensible amount). We by no means suggest that you just stack Stamina (and if our guide implies this, please tell us where so we can fix it!).

Thank you for your comments, and please don't take my refusal to accept most of your points as a sign of hostility. I'm really glad that you made this post and I hope you can continue to contribute to improving our guides :)

[madar 2]

thank you for the fast response .)

- yes maybe you have right about the glyph, just was strange there is the range extension one, but not the another .) (i felt same with the symbiosis shaman lightning shield stuff, but i understood that is intended to not written in)

- hm, i didn't notice the incoming attack rage changes, i will need to thinking on it for a bit how this will affect my playstyle (in the past i was happy to have some adds on me just for generate rage)

- and yes you right about the other things too, i there is only minor things what we see different, and not really change the tanking at all :P