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Pandacho

Unleashed Fury in logs

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Hi, guys :)

Yesterday I had to spec to Unleashed Fury and AG on Malkorok HM.

I will not discuss here the reasons (but definitely can do it, if somebody interested), but the question I have is: how can I see in the logs the difference that UF makes?

I used GHW heavily in this fight and when I tried to compare to our other Malkorok fights, where I didn't use UF, it all looked just the same. Used both Warcraftlogs and AMR Combat log.

 

Malkorok without UF:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VbYqcCDLw2nG1zxB#type=healing

 

Malkorok with UF:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6WPT1bvx7Bwy3rKf#fight=35&type=healing

 

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I checked the logs, and no casts of Unleash Elements appear in either one...

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Not the casts of Unleashed Elements, Stoove.

How I can see in logs the effect of UF passive buff on my GHW casts?

I mean this "Technically, it applies a buff on yourself, Unleashed Fury, which increases the efficiency of your next single-target heal by 50%".

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Yes, but that only happens once you cast the spell.

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Stoove is on the money here.  When using Unleash Fury, you'll gain this buff, alongside the typical Unleash Life buff each time you use Unleash Elements.

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I feel myself utterly stupid or we don't understand one another sad.png

I understand that the buff applies on the direct heal, e.g. make it more powerful. But how I can see the difference between GHW with talent and GHW without it?

With UF: thumb.png

Without UF: thumb.png

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I think the reason you can't see a change is that you're not casting Unleash Elements. There is no passive element to Unleashed Fury: you must cast Unleash Elements to gain the benefit.

 

 

Your elemental imbues are empowered, granting additional effects when triggered with Unleash Elements.

 

So to summarize: you are not seeing a change because you are not casting Unleash Elements.

 

Once you start casting Unleash Elements, you should see an increase.

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The buff only applies after using Unleash Elements.  In both of those WarcraftLogs you linked, you didn't use Unleash Elements.  Unleashed Fury isn't a passive effect, but rather a passive ability that enhances the effect of Unleash Elements, so it won't do anything unless you cast Unleash Elements.

 

Also, because it affects normal spells, you can't really see it's contribution easily.  In WarcraftLogs, you can pin the Unleashed Fury buff, pin GHW, then change both of their 'Graph' values to 'Main'.  Once you do that, it'll show you the uptime of Unleashed Fury as a small window, and every cast of GHW as a line.  There, you can pick out the GHWs you had cast with the buff, and see what kind of difference it made.

 

If that Unleashed Fury buff doesn't exist, you never gained the buff to GHW.

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Thanks, Hybrys.

It was exactly what i needed.

Frankly, I thought about the UF usage exactly in the same way (you need to cast UE to get the buff), but last week I misread Stoove's post in "Resto and Throwing my hands up!" thread and decided that I was wrong all this time and UF does have the passive buff without casting, while with casting it's bigger. Reading it now once more, I can't understand how I got to this conclusion. Stupid, but true :-/

 

If we already talk here, maybe you would solve the puzzle of our Malkorok kill.

Here - attempts 7-8 and kill: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6WPT1bvx7Bwy3rKf#type=healing&boss=1595

Before the killing try people were constantly dying from the lack of shields. Bad HPS, struggling all the time with half of the raid with red shields / without shields. While on the kill it felt like another healer was added - all the fight shields were normal or strong.

The only difference I can see is that I casted a amount of GHW and our disc started to use the Archangel and Penance on CD. Is it it? Or I don't see something?

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Looking at the logs, I don't even think you cast more Greater Healing Waves;

  • 11.49 per minute on fight 8
  • 11.39 per minute on the kill

So the solution you found was almost certainly in the approach you took to healing. You made the right choices, well done! ^__^

 

Malkorok is entirely about healing the right people at the right time; in that respect it's a very strong skill check on your healers. If you felt like it was easier, that's entirely because you made the right decisions.

 

One last thing is that the damage taken is more evenly spread on your kill compared to fight 8. This is also likely to be a contributing factor! :)

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Thanks, Hybrys.

It was exactly what i needed.

Frankly, I thought about the UF usage exactly in the same way (you need to cast UE to get the buff), but last week I misread Stoove's post in "Resto and Throwing my hands up!" thread and decided that I was wrong all this time and UF does have the passive buff without casting, while with casting it's bigger. Reading it now once more, I can't understand how I got to this conclusion. Stupid, but true :-/

 

If we already talk here, maybe you would solve the puzzle of our Malkorok kill.

Here - attempts 7-8 and kill: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6WPT1bvx7Bwy3rKf#type=healing&boss=1595

Before the killing try people were constantly dying from the lack of shields. Bad HPS, struggling all the time with half of the raid with red shields / without shields. While on the kill it felt like another healer was added - all the fight shields were normal or strong.

The only difference I can see is that I casted a amount of GHW and our disc started to use the Archangel and Penance on CD. Is it it? Or I don't see something?

Coming from what Stoove said, look at your Disc priest.  15% of their healing was from Atonement.  Atonement smart-heals the lowest HP, which during Malkorok isn't necessarily the one you need to heal.

 

Things they can do better:

 

Atonement only for AA stacks, or Blood Rage phase (if there are sufficient tank CDs).  This is fixed on your kill attempt, with a much lower Atonement number.

Use the Glyph of Binding Heal and use that for spot-healing.

Only use Power Word: Solace if they can use it on CD.  Mindbender would've been better regen on most of your attempts, because of the lack of use.

 

Things you can do better:

 

Subbing slightly more GHW for CH (if others are in range.)

More effective RT blanketing. With an overheal of 3%, I assume that it was reactive instead of proactive.

I would entirely drop Healing Wave from your bars.  Those two casts could've easily been GHWs, and the effective mana difference isn't huge.

 

Things your healing pally can do better:

 

Love the EF blanket, but ignoring LoD that much can be dangerous.

Holy Prism use isn't great.  All of their L90 talents are very powerful, and should see more use, or they should change talents.  Hammer for extra heals off the bat and during Blood Rage.  ES for extra tank heals on the tank opposite their Beacon.  Etc.

Holy Avenger use isn't great.  For the first one, they only generate 3 times.  For the second, 5, with one HP wasted.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6WPT1bvx7Bwy3rKf#type=resources&fight=35&source=115&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%2476042146.0.0.Paladin%24false%24105809&spell=109

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Interesting reply from Hybrys. Not an expert on the other classes but;

 

Things you can do better:

 

Subbing slightly more GHW for CH (if others are in range.)

More effective RT blanketing. With an overheal of 3%, I assume that it was reactive instead of proactive.

I would entirely drop Healing Wave from your bars.  Those two casts could've easily been GHWs, and the effective mana difference isn't huge.

 

On the first point I entirely disagree. Firstly, because in a 10man setting it's not really worth casting on Malkorok Heroic; the only exception I can think of is using your tanks as Chain Heal turrets to get your melee, but that feels like such a waste of cast time when most tanks more or less heal themselves and take the splash/AA/HST/EarthShield/Beacon healing - it just seems pointless to cast Chain Heal on Malkorok Heroic 10man. Secondly, because Chain Heal suffers from the same problem that Atonement and Healing Stream Totem suffer from and is therefore often targeting people at full shields.

 

About Riptide blanketing; I would recommend using Riptide rotationally on Malkorok HC 10. RT-GHW-GHW-repeat gives you the single target throughput you really need and allows you to focus on individual players. As a bonus, you start accumulating Riptides at the rate of 1 every 4-5sec. That means if you target a different player each time you will keep roughly 4 Riptides up on the raid, which covers a large chunk of people nicely. When there is no immediate shields to heal or pre-empt, then Riptide blanketing is appropriate.

 

The problem with just straight up blanketing is that it's not very effective if your targets are taking such high single target damage. Think of RT blanketing as a filler to your main single target casting rotation; use it as a cushion when there's nothing else you need to urgently do. That's not particularly often on Malkorok.

 

Agreed on Healing Wave though. I believe the term is "go big or go home".

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Interesting reply from Hybrys. Not an expert on the other classes but;

 

 

On the first point I entirely disagree. Firstly, because in a 10man setting it's not really worth casting on Malkorok Heroic; the only exception I can think of is using your tanks as Chain Heal turrets to get your melee, but that feels like such a waste of cast time when most tanks more or less heal themselves and take the splash/AA/HST/EarthShield/Beacon healing - it just seems pointless to cast Chain Heal on Malkorok Heroic 10man. Secondly, because Chain Heal suffers from the same problem that Atonement and Healing Stream Totem suffer from and is therefore often targeting people at full shields.

 

About Riptide blanketing; I would recommend using Riptide rotationally on Malkorok HC 10. RT-GHW-GHW-repeat gives you the single target throughput you really need and allows you to focus on individual players. As a bonus, you start accumulating Riptides at the rate of 1 every 4-5sec. That means if you target a different player each time you will keep roughly 4 Riptides up on the raid, which covers a large chunk of people nicely. When there is no immediate shields to heal or pre-empt, then Riptide blanketing is appropriate.

 

The problem with just straight up blanketing is that it's not very effective if your targets are taking such high single target damage. Think of RT blanketing as a filler to your main single target casting rotation; use it as a cushion when there's nothing else you need to urgently do. That's not particularly often on Malkorok.

 

Agreed on Healing Wave though. I believe the term is "go big or go home".

See, and this is the singular fight I use Glyph of Chaining on, because if I can hit 3 people, it's more effective than GHW.  It's a judgement call and you should always be flexible, but I see some moments in the replay where they single GHW when 3 nearby are at yellow or lower.  In those situations at that time, CH > GHW.

 

I wouldn't trade a whole lot of the GHWs for CHs, just about 6-8 of them.

 

I prefer a more aggressive RT blanket.  If everyone is at or above yellow, I'll go straight to RT --> RT as fast as I can to maintain the raid.  Again, both applications would probably be similar in outcomes, with yours giving a larger upfront benefit, and mine 'passively' rolling against Ancient Miasma, maintaining shields rather than generating.  If someone is taking direct damage, or the tanks need a little extra, I'll stop my blanket, though.

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Ehhh, the disadvantage of RT blanketing when the raid's at Yellow is that it only takes a small mistake on someone's part for a shield to go completely (barring an orb). So it's better to keep at least your most significant soakers maxed if only to ensure that a small mistake somewhere along the line doesn't kill them.

 

But yes, that's a judgement call.

 

Ultimately, it's for the healer to decide in the moment. Obviously, that's where ones own skill comes into it; something which I think differentiates "good" from "mediocre" healers. That's why I'm looking forward to WoD; more of this kind of interesting strategic decision.

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Ehhh, the disadvantage of RT blanketing when the raid's at Yellow is that it only takes a small mistake on someone's part for a shield to go completely (barring an orb). So it's better to keep at least your most significant soakers maxed if only to ensure that a small mistake somewhere along the line doesn't kill them.

 

But yes, that's a judgement call.

 

Ultimately, it's for the healer to decide in the moment. Obviously, that's where ones own skill comes into it; something which I think differentiates "good" from "mediocre" healers. That's why I'm looking forward to WoD; more of this kind of interesting strategic decision.

Right, but as a Shaman on that fight, I consider myself an emergency, burst healer, while the Druid or Holy Pally are the main healer.  I get them to yellow/green off the bat, and then blanket, while they bring them to green and maintain the tank.  Yellow should be enough to let them soak a puddle with little to no effective damage taken, as that should be ~300k in shields.

 

That may also be an effect of who I'm healing with, and the strategy I've assumed, rather than the most effective way to heal.

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That may also be an effect of who I'm healing with, and the strategy I've assumed, rather than the most effective way to heal.

 

Ah I see. We have always 2-healed HC Malkorok, so we don't have the luxury of an "emergency healer" like that. It's all emergency all the time :D

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Hehe, I really don't know where from this Healing Wave came. Must be a misclick, because I even don't have it in bindings. :)

As for Riptide blanketing and Chains - i tried this too. Actually we wiped on Malkorok so long, that I had a time to try every possible strategy, even dps cloak and EB in tier 6...

I would agree with Stoove here - blanketing and Chains give 'emergency' shields, but not the strong ones. And this is right - it's a very big difference - who are another healers. I wanted to do it 2-healing, but the second group was always dying :-/

And what brought us a kill finally, it when I stopped blanketing and chaining and went for heavy direct heals all over the raid without group dividing.

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One thing that might change your healing outlook on heroic mal is a monk, They just blow all other healers away on this fight

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We do two heal, but I'm only a backup and our main healers are usually doing 250 to 350k HPS. Maybe that's why I don't bother 'nuking' to get shields up.

It'll depend on your comp, for sure, but I also do Thok the same way (HR>HST>RT>CH) to with a pretty effective outcome.

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Thok is totally different, I would say. Here I try to uptime Riptides 100% of the time on non-fixate phases. HST and HR - sure. CH with glyph. No GHW. Sometimes I use UE + instant HR with the macro, when it screeches too fast. 

Last time on normal it was very funny. We hold him on the first phase until the end :) All the raid was laughing hysterically in the Vent, except of lock and mage :)

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Yeah I agree Thok is an entirely different beast (pardon the pun). The damage patterns are all different, so it benefits from a different strategy (namely SPAM ALL THE RIPTIDES).

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Not sure why you would glyph CH on thok

I was thinking that.  Bounces should already go between both groups.

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I always use CH with the glyph. Prevents me from spaming it senselessly, so I can sit on low Spirit. Just personal preference, nothing about this fight specifically.

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