2H weapon or 1H w/ Shield?

[Amygdalla 4]

Hi Guys,

 

I am in a pickle. I got a new weapon the other day in heroic sha. But it is a 2H weapon Staff Gaze of Arrogance.  But currently I have Horned Mace of the Old Ones and Norushen's Enigmatic Barrier. I  cannot tell which one is better and I have a lot of people telling me that 2H are for priests, and that a 1H and shield is better for shamans (and I agree). But I am not sure which one is a better upgrade atm. I am hoping I get a heroic weapon soon =/

 

Helps! and thank you

~Mojo

[SparkSovereign 61]

For dps, spellpower always wins.  You'd need your offhand to be ~ilvl 600 for it to even be a question.

 

For survivability, spellpower probably still wins because more damage -> fight shorter, since armor applies to approximately nothing in siege (for non-tanks), except for Iron Juggernaut (a lot of that damage is properly physical and not sonic).  Even still, unless you're getting 2-shot by stuff, stick with the staff, and gratz!  I hope I get mine this week.

 

 

EDIT:  2hs also favored by elemental right now because TOO MUCH SPIRIT OH MY GOD.  If you're resto, then yes, 1H-shield is ostensibly a little better, but that's icing on the cake compared to "higher spellpower".

 

EDIT 2:  Wow, I actually beat Hybrys to answering a question.  This hasn't happened in weeks.

Edited June 9, 2014 by SparkSovereign

[Hybrys 199]

For dps, spellpower always wins.  You'd need your offhand to be ~ilvl 600 for it to even be a question.

 

For survivability, spellpower probably still wins because more damage -> fight shorter, since armor applies to approximately nothing in siege (for non-tanks), except for Iron Juggernaut (a lot of that damage is properly physical and not sonic).  Even still, unless you're getting 2-shot by stuff, stick with the staff, and gratz!  I hope I get mine this week.

 

 

EDIT:  2hs also favored by elemental right now because TOO MUCH SPIRIT OH MY GOD.  If you're resto, then yes, 1H-shield is ostensibly a little better, but that's icing on the cake compared to "higher spellpower".

 

EDIT 2:  Wow, I actually beat Hybrys to answering a question.  This hasn't happened in weeks.

Too bad it's not right!

 

Check this out:

 

Base 2h:

2268 Int

1462 Crit

1573 Mastery

13499 Spell Power

 

MH+Shield combo:

2396 Int

1299 Spirit

573 Haste

1080 Mastery

12602 Spell Power

 

If we apply Ele stat weights, the MH/OH comes out ahead as long as you can use most of the hit, mostly because Crit isn't great!  If we apply Resto stat weights however, the 2h will come ahead by just a little bit.

 

Base 1h:

863 Int

598 Spirit

573 Haste

12602 Spell Power

 

+ Base OH

1228 Int (+165 from OH Enchant)

701 Spirit

920 Mastery

+140 Int / 160 Mastery (from gem + bonus)

 

Weight Bases:

 

Ele, relatively universal stat weights:

Spirit/Hit = 6.5

Int = 5.2

SP = 4.2

Mastery = 3

Haste = 2.9

Crit = 2.35

 

Resto, Crit Build:

Int = 5

SP = 3.75

Spirit = 3.25

Haste before 8.8k = 3

Crit = 2.25

Mastery = 2.15

 

 

TL;DR, MH/OH combos are typically better, just because of the gems and enchants.  It can come very close, with differentiating item levels, though.

 

Ele also does not favor 2h weapons, and would rather have either spell mace (Horned Mace of the Old Ones/Kardris' Scepter) and the Garrosh OH (Revelations of Y'Shaarj) for their Best In Slot setup.

[Amygdalla 4]

Thanks Hybrys!

 

I am a resto Shaman, sorry, forgot to mention that!

 

I will try using the 2H this week. Need the valor to upgrade it 4/4.

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/zul%27jin/mojofosho

[SparkSovereign 61]

If we apply Ele stat weights, the MH/OH comes out ahead as long as you can use most of the hit, mostly because Crit isn't great!  If we apply Resto stat weights however, the 2h will come ahead by just a little bit.

I don't think I'm wrong, I think we're looking at different scenarios.

 

Key phrase is "as long as you can use most of the hit".  I've been at least 1% over since week one of 5.4, and was for awhile using stamina gems to match blue because otherwise I was 5% over (only reason I'm not doing that now is because I'm OS resto atm).  When I finally got my tier pieces this problem lessened considerably, but it won't go away until I get a Signet of the Dinomancers.  Crit is a pretty bad stat for elemental, but spirit past cap is worth literally nothing, and I'm still hitcapped with no weapons equipped, so if you take that into consideration:

 

Using the stat weights you posted, except assuming we're already hitcapped (spirit = 0):

2H - Weights sum to 76644.1

MH/OH - Weights sum to 70289.3

Even if you took all the spirit on the MH/OH and converted it to mastery, 2H still wins here (just by 5% instead of 10%).  To go further, I took a look at what happens if you upgrade the MH to heroic:

 

Gain 64 intellect, weighted at 332.8

Gain 43 spirit, weighted at 0, or 129 if converted to mastery

Gain 41 haste, weighted at 118.9

Gain 850 spellpower, weighted at 3570

Overall gain 4021.7, or 4150.7 if spirit converted to mastery

New MH/OH weight: 74311, or 78337 if spirit converts 100% to mastery

 

Since you can only convert 40% of the spirit to mastery, MH/OH is still less than the 2Her if you don't need your weapons to hitcap.  If you do, MH/OH wins.  So I guess the lesson here is that I need to convince my raid to run Thok again instead of spending 100% of our time on heroic progression.

 

Re: resto, my answer was entirely off the cuff (related to armor since I assumed the stat difference was fairly insignificant), I defer to the experts on that one.

Edited June 10, 2014 by SparkSovereign

[dean771 3]

Something else to consider is the value of the +8 upgrade somewhere else untill you have fully upgraded gear.

[Hybrys 199]

I don't think I'm wrong, I think we're looking at different scenarios.

 

Key phrase is "as long as you can use most of the hit".  I've been at least 1% over since week one of 5.4, and was for awhile using stamina gems to match blue because otherwise I was 5% over (only reason I'm not doing that now is because I'm OS resto atm).  When I finally got my tier pieces this problem lessened considerably, but it won't go away until I get a Signet of the Dinomancers.  Crit is a pretty bad stat for elemental, but spirit past cap is worth literally nothing, and I'm still hitcapped with no weapons equipped, so if you take that into consideration:

 

Using the stat weights you posted, except assuming we're already hitcapped (spirit = 0):

2H - Weights sum to 76644.1

MH/OH - Weights sum to 70289.3

Even if you took all the spirit on the MH/OH and converted it to mastery, 2H still wins here (just by 5% instead of 10%).  To go further, I took a look at what happens if you upgrade the MH to heroic:

 

Gain 64 intellect, weighted at 332.8

Gain 43 spirit, weighted at 0, or 129 if converted to mastery

Gain 41 haste, weighted at 118.9

Gain 850 spellpower, weighted at 3570

Overall gain 4021.7, or 4150.7 if spirit converted to mastery

New MH/OH weight: 74311, or 78337 if spirit converts 100% to mastery

 

Since you can only convert 40% of the spirit to mastery, MH/OH is still less than the 2Her if you don't need your weapons to hitcap.  If you do, MH/OH wins.  So I guess the lesson here is that I need to convince my raid to run Thok again instead of spending 100% of our time on heroic progression.

 

Re: resto, my answer was entirely off the cuff (related to armor since I assumed the stat difference was fairly insignificant), I defer to the experts on that one.

It's very true, but balancing on throwing away a stat isn't valid to me, since I've always been able to tweak within .5% of hit from ilvl 450 to 582.  Hell, right now, I could be at 14.99% if I swapped by pant enchant.  You would, however, have to be able to use at least 75% of the Hit to make them even, and if the situation were that it would be wasted, the staff would be better...

 

Just gotta rely on Tier and the Siegecrafter Boots (Powder-Stained Totemic Treads) to get rid of all that hit.

 

We can also weigh in Reforging:

 

2H: 1462 Crit --> 585 Haste & 877 Crit

 

1H: 598 Spirit --> 239 Mastery & 359 Spirit

OH: 701 Spirit --> 280 Haste & 421 Spirit

 

Which would make them surprisingly even, with the 2H at 76965.9, and the MH/OH at 76888.3.  For the MH/OH combo being an average 3.5 ilvls lower, at it's base, it's kind of impressive.

 

If the choice was to be made now from an Ele perspective, I'd opt to keep what's already valor upgraded.

 

The same goes for Resto as well, really.  I wouldn't spend 1k valor to 8/8 it if your other gear is already upgraded.  I would instead upgrade something else with a good difference to it's upgrade (such as Chest/Pants/Helm/Trinkets/Cloak).

[dean771 3]

Just gotta rely on Tier and the Siegecrafter Boots (Powder-Stained Totemic Treads)

Those boots and my flex thok ring taunt me still. Dwarf with a mace doesnt help either