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Our Rogue is only doing half the DPS he is capable of, what is he doing wrong?

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Ok, this is another one of those help my Rogue posts.

 

Tactics wise, he knows what to do, he is really friendly and helps with keeping moral up so I like having him in the group but he is always at the bottom of the DPS charts.  I have run his profile through Simulation Craft and and there is a lot of room for improvement but having never played a Rogue I don't know what he should and shouldn't be doing.

 

Here is his profile page:  http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/sparrowwolf/simple

 

He got a few loot items tonight so they probably aren't enchanted, gemmed or reforged yet so don't rip into him too much for that.

 

Here are the logs from tonight.  For some reason it didn't pick up the Sha of Pride HC kill but the 09:30 wipe was a 0% wipe so as close to a kill as we could get without killing it (the actual kill was much cleaner so it is a shame that hasn't been picked up).

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x4CrDYWPBRAMfa79/

 

Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated. 

 

 

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From the Sha almost-kill, what I notice most is the low Revealing Strike uptime, uneven Slice and Dice uptime (good for the first half, bad for the second half of the fight), and they're focusing WAY too much on Fan of Knives and Crimson Tempest.

 

Then I finally noticed it.  They didn't use Killing Spree even once, and Adrenaline Rush's contribution was awkward.  Killing Spree and Adrenaline Rush are a HUGE part of a Combat Rogue's damage.  Killing Spree can be a little bit scary, because you lose control of your character for a moment, but it's damage contribution is huge.  Adrenaline Rush combined with Restless Blades is what helps you get more of those Killing Sprees, and helps you maintain that high DPS.

 

I'd recommend that they ignore Fan of Knives and Crimson Tempest, and work on using Blade Flurry instead.  They should also be using Killing Spree right after the pull, and then any time it's up after that, as well as using Adrenaline Rush whenever Killing Spree is down, to try to reduce it's Killing Spree's cooldown faster.

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As the previous reply touched on, but I really want to stress, Killing spree is the absolute most important ability we have as combat rogues. If I'm better at the rotation than another rogue,but somehow they manage to fit in 1 more killing spree than me, they will almost always do more dps than me. It's essential. If you would like someone to personally work with him I'd be happy to help. I like to think I'm pretty darn good at playing a rogue XD on sha I really just leave the reflections to the rest of the dps, I don't use FoK, Crimson Tempest, or Blade Flurry, I'd much rather look for a rift to close or kill a reflection. Single target is a much more valuable application of dps from a rogue. I have a highly geared Horde rogue, and an ok gear Alliance rogue, so if you'd like my in game contact information just send me a message and I'll chat with him :)

Edited by Mantlor

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I like to think I'm pretty darn good at playing a rogue XD

I don't use FoK, Crimson Tempest, or Blade Flurry, I'd much rather look for a rift to close or kill a reflection. Single target is a much more valuable application of dps from a rogue.

AoE is the signature of a combat rogue, and good/effective use of Blade Flurry is a significant part of that.

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As the previous reply touched on, but I really want to stress, Killing spree is the absolute most important ability we have as combat rogues. If I'm better at the rotation than another rogue,but somehow they manage to fit in 1 more killing spree than me, they will almost always do more dps than me. It's essential. If you would like someone to personally work with him I'd be happy to help. I like to think I'm pretty darn good at playing a rogue XD on sha I really just leave the reflections to the rest of the dps, I don't use FoK, Crimson Tempest, or Blade Flurry, I'd much rather look for a rift to close or kill a reflection. Single target is a much more valuable application of dps from a rogue. I have a highly geared Horde rogue, and an ok gear Alliance rogue, so if you'd like my in game contact information just send me a message and I'll chat with him smile.png

DON'T go to this guy for help. Anyone who lacks comprehension of the applicability of combat AoE should not be offering advice.

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Another thing I noticed is the long periods he spends without a single melee hit!

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x4CrDYWPBRAMfa79/#type=casts&source=16 -> Graph Options -> Show all

The gaps match with banishments, prison or rifts soaking, but he shouldn't spend so much time "doing nothing" to close a rift for example.

 

About AoE, you guys maybe forgot what this fight looks like with a progress group with low dps. ^^ One month ago we had to use BL at the start to avoid a 4th swelling pride in P1, and to leave the reflections to the tanks so they could get mass vengeance, and so no dd would lose dps on the boss the kill the adds. Reflections are not a priority target and you shouldn't lose dps on the boss for them in my opinion. He could eventually blade flurry on the 3rd spawn in P1 et on the 2nd in P2, or the tanks may be overwhelmed, but that's it.

But ofc, if you only want him to score a high dps regardless of how easy it will be to kill the boss, he should blade flurry anytime  an add is living next to him.

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Another thing I noticed is the long periods he spends without a single melee hit!

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x4CrDYWPBRAMfa79/#type=casts&source=16 -> Graph Options -> Show all

The gaps match with banishments, prison or rifts soaking, but he shouldn't spend so much time "doing nothing" to close a rift for example.

 

About AoE, you guys maybe forgot what this fight looks like with a progress group with low dps. ^^ One month ago we had to use BL at the start to avoid a 4th swelling pride in P1, and to leave the reflections to the tanks so they could get mass vengeance, and so no dd would lose dps on the boss the kill the adds. Reflections are not a priority target and you shouldn't lose dps on the boss for them in my opinion. He could eventually blade flurry on the 3rd spawn in P1 et on the 2nd in P2, or the tanks may be overwhelmed, but that's it.

But ofc, if you only want him to score a high dps regardless of how easy it will be to kill the boss, he should blade flurry anytime  an add is living next to him.

I don't understand a strategy where you need to leave adds on a tank because your raid DPS is too low.  Do not fall into the trap of thinking 'Well, this worked, so it must be the right strat!' either.

 

From our progress, they were rounded up and dealt with immediately after spawning.  Now a days, we don't even have a tank pick them up, but they always get cleaved down by everyone.

 

The signature of a Combat Rogue, much like an Elemental Shaman, is AoE.  So when you can help your raid by doing more effective DPS, you should be doing it.

 

 

Travel time doesn't seem TOO high to me, but it is rather high.  Remember to immediately eliminate any time they are affected by those debuffs before looking for others.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x4CrDYWPBRAMfa79/#type=auras&source=16&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24casts%240%240.0.0.Any%2499891616.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%241%5E0%24Main%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%2499891616.0.0.Rogue%24false%24145215%5E0%24Main%24%23a04D8A%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%2499891616.0.0.Rogue%24false%24144684&spells=debuffs

 

Their choice to go close a rift DURING Bloodlust was a bad one, though.  That should be boss time.

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I don't understand a strategy where you need to leave adds on a tank because your raid DPS is too low.  Do not fall into the trap of thinking 'Well, this worked, so it must be the right strat!' either.

 

From our progress, they were rounded up and dealt with immediately after spawning.  Now a days, we don't even have a tank pick them up, but they always get cleaved down by everyone.

 

The signature of a Combat Rogue, much like an Elemental Shaman, is AoE.  So when you can help your raid by doing more effective DPS, you should be doing it.

 

The main idea is that if the dps is low, you can't afford losing too much damage on inoffensive adds. The vengeance for tanks is just a bonus and hardly necessary, I agree with that.

Then it really depends on the class : a rogue activating blade flurry during AR won't lose much on the boss, a warrior using bladestorm won't lose anything, but a mage spamming arcane explosion is a huge loss.

We're now over 570 in average so it won't be needed anymore, but it helped for our first kill. I didn't say it was the only right strategy, but if the adds live 5 or 40 sec the fight won't be harder whereas someone may die every time the boss cast an ability again (prison, swelling pride...). So why would we sacrifice damage on the boss to kill adds faster?

 

 

Travel time doesn't seem TOO high to me, but it is rather high.  Remember to immediately eliminate any time they are affected by those debuffs before looking for others.

I did, you taught me once how to use pins. wink.png

I even looked when he went to close a rift ( http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x4CrDYWPBRAMfa79/#type=damage-taken&source=16&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24casts%240%240.0.0.Any%2499891616.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%241%5E0%24Main%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%2499891616.0.0.Rogue%24false%24145215%5E0%24Main%24%23a04D8A%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%2499891616.0.0.Rogue%24false%24144684&ability=147388 ) and I think he still spend too much time running around. With sprint and ShS it should take 5 sec to reach a rift and get back to the boss, not 15 like around 2:20.

There are still gaps when using FoK (going out of melee range to spam it in the middle if reflections) and some remain unexplained to me.

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Hi all,

 

Thank you very much for your help.  I will sit down with the Rogue this weekend and work through your suggestions with him.  

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His AR/SB usage is low, this probably the single largest problem. He should also being KSp on cooldown, before AR/SB.

 

He shouldn't be using FoK/CT. Should he need to prioritize AoE, he should simply turn on BF and continue his rotation like normal. (Hopefully between AR/SB.) There is a reason fok is being removed from combat in wod.

 

His SnD uptime is problematic, it should near 100% This is another big deal.

 

Target uptime is low. He should be able to maintain his attacks with maybe only a couple of seconds to step on a button. He is a rogue, he can run and attack at the same time. His deadly uptime is 92%, which is low. Thats basicly 8% missing damage, there really is no reason for an uptime this low.

 

Revealing strike has an uptime of ~50%. Again, this is unacceptable. These are core mechanics.

 

1. always be attacking

2. don't cap energy or cp

3. keep up revealing strike

4. keep up snd.

5. cooldowns on cooldown unless the fight directs otherwise.

 

He is falling short on all 5, this are the very basics for a combat rogue. He needs to drill on a dummy until he can do this in his sleep.

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