Slideri

Trinkets and some advice

18 posts in this topic

Hello.

LAST POST: Solace/Shadowfiend vs Mindbender
I know best trinkets are: Siegecrafter and Sha..

Siegecrafter one hates me, so it not goint to drop for me. Same was on sha on flex/normal, but finally drop from lfr.

 

Before I had a trinket with 1100int (496 Chi-Ji)

Question is, which one is better, Sha, or old Chi-Ji.

Sha (9317 / 20s, rest without int... so I have 186340/115 = 1620)
Chi-Ji (1100)
So... from this point Sha is better. Or did I something wrong?smile.png

Also if some1 could give me a gear advice

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/burning-legion/Sliderqt/advanced smile.png

Thanks
 

Edited by Slideri

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Sha is BiS almost regardless of the version. If you want a quick and easy replacement for the Contemplation of Chi-ji, try to get Yu-lon's bite. It's a great trinket, despite its item level of 535.

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Consider getting Yu-Lon's Bite or the siegecrafter trinket to replace the thok trinket either way. That trinket is not particularly stunning for disc.

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  You have to keep in mind that healers generally hate procs. I don't want to go too in-depth but basically it has to do with over-healing and consistency. Disc priests has least problems of all the other healers; 'Over-absorbing' is alot less common than. It's still there but because of how strong atonement is, it doesn't happen as often. Sadly i won't be able to support this clause because logs don't show wasted shields. Some players might disagree with this. Nevertheless I remain fixated that procs are just bad in general.

 

  Nazgrim or Thok trinket is never optimal for disc simply because it doesn't proc off of shields, and, most importantly, it doesn't benefit off crit at all, which is the stat we stack abundantly. Say you have 50% crit chance, that would mean over 33% of your heals won't benefit off of the nazgrim trinket. This is excluding spirit shell, pws, and how crit interacts with mastery. You can still use it if you want. Unless its the heroic ver. i'd prefer the old tier trinket, like the horridon one.

 

  For Holy priests, it works exactly the same way crit does. So if you like crit like then you'd definitely like the trinket (thok/nazgrim). I, however, do not. The trinket procs off mastery, but not vice versa i believe.

 

  If, for whatever reason, you want to use rppm or icd trinkets, you need to keep track of the icd and the buff so you can make better use of the proc. E.g. delay spirit shell a few seconds because you know the trinket is about to proc; or use it earlier for bigger shields. You have to be careful that you still get full shields and that it doesn't fade before the damage comes out.

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If your heals crit and that are the heals that Thok's or Nazgrim's trinkets proc off, the healing does include the critical effect. The issue for discipline is that the extra value of a critical strike is converted into an absorb that they do not interact with. I don't think neithre NBI or TAGT interacts with EoL, but I'd have to traverse logs to find a definite answer.

 

You have to keep in mind that healers generally hate procs. I don't want to go too in-depth but basically it has to do with over-healing and consistency. Disc priests has least problems of all the other healers; 'Over-absorbing' is alot less common than. It's still there but because of how strong atonement is, it doesn't happen as often. Sadly i won't be able to support this clause because logs don't show wasted shields. Some players might disagree with this. Nevertheless I remain fixated that procs are just bad in general.

 

Procs are not something particularly useful no, but in the choice between an RRPM or an ICD proc, ICD procs are preferable.

 

Comparing Yu-Lon's Bite to TAGT, replacing the latter with the former will give you static intellect and a crit ICD proc over an int icd proc and another practically useless effect.

 

The ICD makes the proc reliable and can be used every 2 min. Secondarily it's an increase to your crit, which means that it's very unlikely to be overhealing. It's basically a 17% absolute increase to your DA shield generation for 20 seconds. Which is very useful most, if not all, of the time.

 

If the choice is between TAGT or YB, the latter is a clear winner for discipline.

 

If, for whatever reason, you want to use rppm or icd trinkets, you need to keep track of the icd and the buff so you can make better use of the proc. E.g. delay spirit shell a few seconds because you know the trinket is about to proc; or use it earlier for bigger shields. You have to be careful that you still get full shields and that it doesn't fade before the damage comes out.

You don't have a choice in SoO. All of the trinkets in SoO that discipline can get have either a RPPM or ICD proc. And to play optimally you should be tracking these regardless. They should guide your spell choice whenever available. They may not be your preferable sort of trinkets, but since you're stuck with them, you should make the best of the situation.

 

Delaying SS a couple of seconds for a proc can make sense, but in other cases it doesn't. It requires some common sense to know when to delay and when not to. Tracking procs is a great mean to play better. If the siegecrafter trinket procs and will take you to full mana, you know by tracking it that you could cast a couple PoH's instead of smite since the mana regen is otherwise wasted. You know you can get a truckload of healing out when the healing cloak procs if you track it both due to the overhealing mechanic but also the 5% healing increase that your absorbs double-dip from.

Edited by steve

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Hey, thanks for your post.
I changed my nazgrim trinket for inv_pet_jadeserpentpet.jpgYu'lon's Bite, and now waiting for inv_jewelry_orgrimmarraid_trinket_16.jpgDysmorphic Samophlange of Discontinuity.

But have one more question... 
I searched the forum to find an answer to my question, but still Im not sure.
Still wonder about 45lvl talent.

If using math
Solace + Shadowfiend

Shadowfiend

3% mana, per 1.5s, lasts 12s, so 12/1.5=8 ticks... 24% mana.
Solace

1% mana, 10s cd. Shadowfiend have a cd 3 min, so let take a 3min fight
1% * 6 * 3 = 18%
So together we have a 42% regen my mana.

 

vs
Mindbender

1,75%, per attack (also 1.5s), lasts 15s, so 15/1.5 = 10ticks... 17.5% mana every 1min.

It's 17.5 *3 = 52.5% regen mana.

 

So in this point Mindbender is better... but
Solace is free, and Holy Fire costs mana(5400)

So if I'll use my spell every cd(and I should) its: 5400 * 6 * 3 = 97200. (32% my total mana)... but I have also evangelism (30% reduces), so its 3780 * 6 * 3 ~ 68040 (cause we dont have 5 stack every time). and its 22.6% total mana.

Question is... what is better? Solace or Mindbender.

Every top priest now using mindbender.

 

Which will give me more healing(same value dmg)... Solace heals for 100% of the dmg, atonement(like holy fire) 'only' 90%.

I would be happy, if someone, could tell me smile.png, and give me a answer why mindbender or solace.
Atm I'm soo10 healer. (probably it matters).

Edited by Slideri
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Power Word: Solace:

 

Used on cooldown gives 1% mana and replaces Holy Fire that costs somewhere between 3780 and 5400 mana per cast due to atonement, Taking the average of those two values is roughly 4600, or 1.53% of your mana. Using PW: Solace instead of Shadowfiend means it saves you 1.53% mana and gives you another 1% mana per cast, with 6 casts per minute, thats 15.18% mana.

 

Additionally you have access to Shadowfiend that ticks in at 3% mana per attack, 8 attacks per 3 minute has it at 24% mana back per 3 minutes, or 8% per minute.

 

Adding these two together have PW: Solace at 23.18% mana per minute

 

Mindbender.

 

Mindbender attacks 10 times per minute for 1.75% mana each attack, or 17.5% per minute.

 

Without considering the additional healing, PW: Solace regenerates more mana per minute. The only reason you see top priests use mindbender instead is because they no longer need that extra mana and opt for mindbenders increased damage instead.

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Although bear in mind that solace has a higher difficulty to use (shorter CD, target may die before all mana-restoring ticks go off, have to be in range of a target [think Siegecrafter knockback], you may have to delay it or waste a legendary meta proc) vs mindbender (fire-and-forget, allows you to open the fight using SW:P if you choose because you'll be mana-saturated).

 

I'm leaning towards Solace these days to try and maximise my mana regen, but in lower gear progressing on some fights, mindbender was definitely much easier to have one less thing to think about.

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How do you have more to think about with Solace?

 

You should be using HF on cooldown anyway if you're using Mindbender. Especially at lower levels since it has fantastic healing for its mana cost, so you're not casting it any less than you would with solace.

 

The mana return is instantaneous. The millisecond you cast it, the millisecond you get your mana. So there's no need to think about whether a target dies before you get it. Here's a log from our alt raid yesterday that shows this.

 

lpc5vKC.png?1?2073

 

Any thought about target persistence conversely relates to Mindbender. You need to make sure your target is up for 15 seconds, otherwise you're losing out having to switch target.

Edited by steve

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Hmm... Im runing with 11k spirit, with r dudu as another healer, and sometimes have a problem with my mana, so just wondering about mindbender/solace... Looks like, its not a problem with talent.. (and using solace every cd too).

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The above calculations I made are rough though. It doesn't take into account that one of every two shadow fiends will be used with Hymn of Hope that makes it return more mana, nor the fact that HoH scales better with SF than MB.

 

But overall, what really makes mana a problem is not your choice of talents, or the amount of spirit you have(within reason), but rather using your cooldowns properly. Without logs that's hard to ascertain. So there's not a lot that can be done in terms of helping you here unless you give some material to work with in the form of combat logs uploaded to warcraftlogs.

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You should consider changing to warcraftlogs.

 

World of Logs is no longer updated, nor is it maintained. It doesn't support all bosses from SoO 10 months after the tier was released and compared to Warcraftlogs, it has very limited features.

 

I looked at your protectors kill since it doesn't have quirks like Immerseus has.

 

You only procced Rapture 6 times over the course of a 4 minute and 14 second fight. There is an upper limit to 21 procs on this fight, but you should be able to proc it 3-4 times a minute, even on normal.

 

You only used Shadowfiend once, when it could've been used twice in that encounter. Not being able to see when you cast what ability(as you can on WCL), I can only guess that you used it too late for it to be ready again.

 

Looking at PW: Solace, you cast it 10 times on that fight out of a possible 25 times. That's less than half of what's possible.

 

Had you procced Rapture 4 times a minute, used solace on cd and used SF early, you could have generated another 276k mana.

 

Looking at Sha from the same evening:

 

Fight lasted 4m12s

 

10 casts of solace out of a possible 25

 

Rapture procced once, only four shields used in total.

 

I can't even see a use of Shadowfiend?

Edited by steve

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Thank you for your post! :)

I'll upload my logs to warcraftlogs
Need to improve my timing with shadowfiend, and solace.
Generaly using my first SF @200k mana. Need to download addon for tracking 'cd' on Rapture.
Overall, I was pissed, after attempts on heroic.

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I want to reiterate what Steve and LostDignity said.

 

Switching to Warcraft Logs and enabling Adv. Combat Logging in your WoW Settings will give everyone a better look at your healing strategy and more pointers going forward.  I'm crossing my fingers for you and that DSoD!

 

Edit:  LOL, I see you beat me to the post!  Get that Adv. Combat Logging turned on too then.

Edited by Gwenymph
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If you use weakauras, you can use the following to track rapture:

 

String 1

dqK2gaGiePUKauJcrKtHiXTuk2LQOggGJbvldf9muAAK4AkPTPQ6BcACQkNdr19eGCqvjluvQhkkMiIKUiuAJc0hreyKQcCsuOvIiQxIi0mfa3uvqTtr(POKHQk0sLu9uIPIWvru8vb0yre0AvfK5kjSxQ)ssdwuQdtQfRe9yvAYOYLvSzr1NHIrlj60s8ALWSb62kv7wOFdz4OQLJ0ZbnDPUUk2UKY3vfz8kLoVK06ruA)OGnUjSSBHZcNjSCGdvTQtawGT(UakfYoo9B5ahQ6wNaSSnR8C40oXeNClvZkphoTdU5)d4Jjao()kaotYjNPZ3OOyjhrhmu0jYLbbIOMWjCNWDIPt4oX6eUtkoH72cuVpeZ2(qh)2Ys9Dbgk6e5YGarut4eUdgYQecO89bW(9hI)Z68nRkoX0bdzvcbu((ay)(dX)zD(MvfNyDWqwLqaLVpa2V)q8FwNVzvXjfhmKjWA4paGYhaB43h5oFZQIBl5OyheuJbAjlYqeagtyTSutZGarut4eUtaoX0bdb(vucbaaydX)uyU68nRSoX6GHa)kkHaaaSH4FkmxD(Mvw3wOOw3fu0jalGinNjSCGJ6fudH(TfkcCmHL9dyxmHB3woWrfYpx)2cKFUMWcSeXaooH72YfudHMWcSeXaowESoJyfc3UTKJOdgk6e5iMT9HowiMT9HoWke(be81Tl10DbfZQ2qb1vHvG9cw4HJQCIwOdMcksuLFSOpu9sn1cS13fqV0YsWjY9WiUXY7aGnrQwilcT7eWZSwUODE6aHEPfUcKhuxLXlkAHXyp0C9DQGXlkcRq4hqq1hGaRQwxZ3h6yb267c4JOsSTKbBIaBDll13fyOOtKlR8C40oX0YfbIOMWjCh87FLL8W1WvL11vGqCNVzL1jMoH7eRd(9)rotY)Wbuwdz))zD(MvwNuCc3TL7b2ODIzBtgEoDpwMAtST0Z2wkKDCc)3Iow21DbfnHL8sSaR0ew6Q8JfE6aN2cpDGtBbcw4MgX72TLMwWGzOMWceDO35elTfEqD1HAbEwo1MylN88YwlQytyRtcy8HWAH7q1DbfTGZ0YuBITLmO9L6MHSdacJLdCuH8diysVp(TLdCuHOd9oNyP9Blq(bemP3hl1189How6Q8JLP2eBlN4uBITLUSpCwUhyJ2vRSWnw6Y(W52cxbEPtpQuuR7ck6eGLkNcMkBNycy5sr8QvDc4zfCll13fyOOtKJy22h6yHy22h6aRq4hqWx3Uut3fumRAdfuxfwb2lyHhoQYjAHRa5b1vLwFxaTeW8w2lukI6Lw03UGIqtyb2AABclCi17b2OD)2Y9aB0ULaFPwxZ3h6OMbHa5qpfzi7aIHSB6zyGKdC0lEDOA4ZYvhXwBInKKiDGVuZ8aSzir16VEKGm1XsAsXTL8sSaR0ew4qQ3dSr7(TL7b2ODlb(sTUMVp0rndcbYHEkYq2bedzhlGmqYbo6fVoun8z5QJyRnXgssKoWxQzEa2mKOA9xpsqM6yjnP42TLYffvHfUXsaWgKWsHZsDnFFOddzFriqo0trl8ueg6aHpsNBbwqrNWTaB9Dbmdk26sCFITfgtcJKkwlWwFxaZGarut4eUdgIZUIJRecWgUU(dqUZ3SY6eRtaUT0L9HkfYooH)BrZXv6ckQbvBAbdMHcnHBl5u9(inv3ANuS8uHRR0jwaaluuR7XVTep7e0cgmdf6eUfyRVlGbrX2cjK9hWYLI4v36eWZk4wUieih6POF72c0cnKPLAoHRGd42ga

String 2

dCudhaGiuf1OqfNcvAvkqVccmlfPBrj2fe0VqvWWaQJrILPOEgbnnGCnbTnfQVrOghf5CeW7qkI7rb5GeYcPqpevLjcOuxeP0grv1hrksJub0jrkSsfXlrvKzIQu3evH2je9tKIAOaYsvqpLQPsPUkGIVsbolGsMlbAVs)vidwvhMOftr9yinzs6YQSzKQplWOHqNgKxRamBKCBHA3K63igoalhQNJY0v66GA7aQ(Ucz8Ok58usRNcQ9l6Qu76X1vRRw76OekcU2fPs53KachhgckmeKyWcnb2uPBjuyrkS8Bs8mOXZGbfckuG55WWs3sOWIeu5x84WXkkcacKyWJbdYe4s3sOWU1H1lgki4W1UokmBjX1PdRrxiIMd38X3cJ15BGOOHsalm(I4JqOujJ05FA1U1LOlerZQDD2kXBTRRsIqHzljUMRJcZwsC9CsoPUkjIrG1Q1C360H0qmeRDDvsekmBjX1CDuy2sIRBGOOHsalm(I4JqOujJ05BO81qu5edo5aebJLme6OsnTa)0lJdpBGOi(giT8XtrdfbKnWmKwEMBoPB36snuSCHi6AxNTs8w76RvaxDa4JDBDa4JDBDgaiSKQB9yjKU21rjue8WYFOYSIyqGfhopwGqtHMkDlHcRRcJLlerxxyDgQK6SwKk15vrcUodvsD8QivQlPaGOSibxhLqrWIksL6wlsW1rjueSTvaxDaWuSJpcfbxhLqrW00IuPokHIGnw(fdkuiyLqtHcfyEwaHMkDlHcRJsOiy(H1O1X3cJ15thwJUqenhaysa(ySP5JvMMFGY08nRmnFPY08XZtZpyEA(MNNMVCMBoj)8PiOsQ8L6aQlFdLphaysa(yS8hm)58hm)y5IicbaXnFl5ZjwUiIqaq5Zd5pZnNKF(ueujv(6Beqysa(yS8nu(C4elxeridsZrQdOoU5JG8v4YdZCPj5K8ZhFlmwNpwjFeKph9ncimjaFmw(dMph8C(wYhRWL70Cs(5NF(5NF(bk5JG85OVraHjb4JXYFW85emNVL8du4YDAoj)8Zp)8ZpFZk5JG85OVraHjb4JXYFW85yEoFl5BwHl3P5K8Zp)8Zp)8Lk5JG85OVraHjb4JXYFW85iNZ3s(sfUCZjNwnNuhtw5Efj46WSlcLqrW1y3U1xmuqWHRD91kGRokmBjX1rHzljoATc4QZw5cZQFa)0lRUbII4BG0Yhpfnueq2aZqARJI4HoG6hWp9whfMTK460H1OlerZHB(4BHX681KnFdefnucyHXxeFecLkzKo)tRwhfMTK4ieHuV6lu8P2ToMSYfIOlsW1r8GcqCl)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

String 1 will show the remaining cooldown on Rapture, string 2 will show an icon when Rapture is ready.

 

There is some custom code for the second string that relies on the first string, but if you don't want an icon when Rapture is ready, you can disable the second one, string 1 works independent of the other.

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Thank you for code to weakauras.:)
I thought throwing PW:S on cd works fine with Rapture, but yea it need to be completly absorbed to refund mana cost, so it have other cd than weakened soul... It was my 'big' fail ;) Now I'll use it properly!

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