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Kyzy

Question on consumables

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With TTT is it better to use Mad Hozen Elixir or Strength flask?

 

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Arms = Winter's Bite

Fury 1H = Winter's Bite / Mad Hozen

Fury 2H = Mad Hozen

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You would have to sim yourself to see for sure, but the differences are *so* minor between the str flask/crit elixir that it does not really matter, and you would be highly unlikely to see any actual dps difference at all.

 

On food, the str is going to win anyway (Unless your crit comes out to be at least 67% more than str) but even then, the difference will not be noticeable.

 

Personally, since there is no noticeable difference I go with the convenience of the flask (IIRC elixir does not last through death, which can happen quite often on a progression boss) and the Str food, usually obtained from a swanky noodle cart.

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You would have to sim yourself to see for sure, but the differences are *so* minor between the str flask/crit elixir that it does not really matter, and you would be highly unlikely to see any actual dps difference at all.

 

Using the SimulationCraft imported profiles I compared two profiles - both without upgrades:

  • Tier 16 Normal 2H Fury Warrior
  • Tier 16 Heroic 2H Fury Warrior

With these two I simply ran only the one difference - Mad Hozen Elixir vs Winter's Bite Flask.

 

The normal T16 Sim showed a difference of 50 - 100 DPS.

The heroic T16 Sim showed a difference of 1,500 - 2,000 DPS.

 

Yes, these are averages. This was also with 25,000 iterations, low world lag, and an settings set to "elite".

 

Bottom line? Sim yourself and determine the difference as Zilthy suggested. In normal-mode gear you may not see much a difference but in Heroic mode gear you might get a gap in numbers.

 

As far as your food goes, simply use the +300 food cart (will give you Strength) or you can use inv_misc_food_cooked_golden_black_pepperBlack Pepper Ribs and Shrimp.

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And I agree, in heroic there is a bigger gap.  But, considering on heroic an average of say, 400k  (even lower end of, of 300k)  2k is *minimal* and will never be noticed.  RNG and playstyle performance will be a far bigger factor. biggrin.png

 

There are far better things to focus attention on than food or what is in the bottle. biggrin.png

Edited by Zilthy
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And I agree, in heroic there is a bigger gap.  But, considering on heroic an average of say, 400k  (even lower end of, of 300k)  2k is *minimal* and will never be noticed.  RNG and playstyle performance will be a far bigger factor. biggrin.png

 

There are far better things to focus attention on than food or what is in the bottle. biggrin.png

 

Most likely, thinking back (I posted this after a 12.5 hour work shift lol), even though "thousand" is bigger than "hundred" - I'd be willing to bet it's the same percentage. :)

 

And, yes, I agree. Far better things to focus..... oh shiny!

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300 Mastery food (Mango Ice) is actually better than the 300 strength food once your mastery takes over strength in stat value. (usually around the 570 mark but you have to sim your stat weights to be sure).

 

At that point it's Mad Hozen/Mango Ice

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There are far better things to focus attention on than food or what is in the bottle. biggrin.png

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For those who wish to know numbers... the absolute of every last possible DPS you can gain and the differences there are, I'll present my own warrior for some results as an example. If anything, this post will only solidify what @Zilthy has already said.

 

Let's set a foundation though, so people know where these results are coming from. First off, here's my warrior: Sajakain @ Stormrage. She is a Worgen Warrior, 573 equipped, optimized with custom stats obtained from SimulationCraft (where my mastery does come out slightly ahead than strength.)

 

The food and drink that we'll be comparing are listed in this thread but for convenience, here they are:

For SimulationCraft (which will be giving us the results), I have the following settings:

  • Iterations: 25,000
  • World Lag: Low
  • Length (sec): 300 (5 Minutes)
  • Vary Length: 0% (Let's make this fight 5 minutes flat, eh?)
  • Fight Style: Patchwerk
  • Target Level: Raid Boss
  • Target Race: Humanoid
  • Num Enemies: 1
  • Player Skill: Elite
  • All buffs and debuffs were applied.

Disclaimer: Before we get to the results I want to remind you that this is for my warrior - not yours. This is not your buddy's warrior from down the street nor does it reflect the #1 guy on Warcraft Logs, World of Logs, or in your own raid group. I simply chose my warrior for example purposes only. For more personal results I suggest you put your warrior into SimulationCraft and obtain them.

 

Test #1: Black Pepper Ribs (300 Strength) & Winter's Bite (1,000 Strength):

  • 416,393 DPS

Test #2: Black Pepper Ribs (300 Strength) & Mad Hozen (750 Critical Strike):

  • 416,926 DPS

 

With these results you see a difference, in favor of the Mad Hozen, of 533 DPS. Let's get some more tests done...

 

Test #3: Mango Ice (300 Mastery) + Winter's Bite (1,000 Strength):

  • 416,486 DPS

Test #4: Mango Ice (300 Mastery) + Mad Hozen (750 Critical Strike):

  • 417,044 DPS

 

Swapping out the food on the table we see a difference, in favor of the Mad Hozen, of 558 DPS.

 

The difference of the two best outcomes is 118 DPS.

__________________________________________

 

@Zilthy: My hat's off to you, sir.

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Thank you all for your awesome replies, How can I sim using different food and buffs?

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Thank you all for your awesome replies, How can I sim using different food and buffs?

 

The buffs / debuffs is under Options -> Buffs / Debuffs. Pretty straight forward.

 

If you want to change out food, import your character. Once it's imported you'll notice a string that looks like this:

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.
 
actions.precombat=elixir,type=mad_hozen
actions.precombat+=/food,type=mango_ice

You simply change the settings here. Your options for your Flask / Elixir can be set:

  • actions.precombat=flask,type=winters_bite
  • actions.precombat=elixir,type=mad_hozen

And your options for food can be changed just the same:

  • actions.precombat+=/food,type=mango_ice
  • actions.precombat+=/food,type=black_pepper_ribs_and_shrimp

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Brilliant Thanks

 

When comparing my DPS to a sim and fight like Malkorok or Jug How much lower should I expect?

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When comparing my DPS to a sim and fight like Malkorok or Jug How much lower should I expect?

 

It depends on your settings and a lot of other things in that fight. In my personal settings, with the Player Skill set to "Elite", the outcome is presuming you make zero... absolutely no mistakes.

 

You also have to remember that Malkorok and Iron Juggernaut are not 100% true "Patchwerk" fights; they come with a little movement as opposed to simply standing in one spot and trying for your best rotation possible.

 

Then, with these two in mind, you can then consider your fight that was parsed; was it pulled correctly? Did you prepot? Did you die? Were mistakes made? Did you have to do something like take a bomb / stand in a puddle? Did you alter the strategy?

 

With all these things in mind it should be obvious you will not be at 100% that was simulated. When I evaluate my raid group I am happy with anything about 90% and above. I prefer people to be close to 95% but, again, I have to take several points on any given fight into consideration.

 

I hope this helps.

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Kyzy: Sheesh, stop worrying about the small stuff.

 

    1) Do the mechanics of a fight

    2) Do your best rotation

 

If you do #1 (mechanics) and get comfortable with those, and then get #2 (rotation/priority)

 

I can get completely trolled by my trinkets in a fight (low dps) or blessed by them (high dps) but it doesn't matter.

 

I am not sure what you are going for Kyzy, but I would guess higher dps (given your other thread on raging blows / CS windwo) but really, looking at food, flask, sims and even gemming/reforing (unless you are gemmed/reforged horribly wrong) are not the place to do it.

 

The place to look is logs.  Enraged as much as possible?  (bloodthirst/berserker rage)  Not wasting rage?  Best use of CS windows?

 

I could be wrong, maybe you are happy with where you are at, but if you are not as I think from your postings, you need to be looking elsewhere, rather than chasing ghosts or placebos.

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Haha

I think the small stuff is still important

I will submit a log and see what is going on there

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Thanks a lot. I made few Sim with my character.

 

Please find enclosed the results:

 

 

543 942 : Flask Str & Food Str

actions.precombat=flask,type=winters_bite

actions.precombat+=/food,type=black_pepper_ribs_and_shrimp

 

546 171 : Elixir Crit & Food Mast - Gain of 2 229 DPS

actions.precombat=elixir,type=mad_hozen

actions.precombat+=/food,type=mango_ice

 

545 891 DPS : Elixir Crit & Bouffe For - Gain of 1 949 DPS

actions.precombat=elixir,type=mad_hozen

actions.precombat+=/food,type=black_pepper_ribs_and_shrimp

 

544 221 : Flask Str & Food Mast - Gain of 279 DPS

actions.precombat=flask,type=winters_bite

actions.precombat+=/food,type=mango_ice

 

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Interesting Epurator, you had *much* higher gains that I did, and many others have.  Atlhough, 2k is a small gain.  I know that I would ask myself "Is a 2k gain, worth that much effort?  Providing my own food (vs a banquet) and re drinking an elixir every death, rather than every hour?"

 

All for a gain, that amounts to being 1/2% dps?

 

I am not saying that you are wrong, you can certainly do that.  For me, that difference is *so* small that it really is not worth worrying about, and will never be noticed with any amount of RNG present.

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