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Ambush vs Mutilate

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Ok, so, title says it basically..


I am re-leveling an assassination rogue again, and I was going through the 6.0 assassination guide on the site here, and noticed that it says you always use Mutilate out of stealth.

Is there a reason for using Mut over Ambush? Ambush costs 1 energy more (with Shadow Focus talent) but does roughly 26% more damage, and generates the same amount of combo points.


My current rogue is only level 51, so bear with me on the lower numbers, but here's what I've gathered..

Mutilate does 210% wep damage from each weapon. Ambush does 275%wep dmg +40% if using a dagger (which you would have to as assassination)

so with my MH weapon damage being 179-199, off hand (with same weapon) is 79-90

210% of 199=417.90

210% of 90  =189.00



275% of 199=547.25

40% of 547.25=218.90

547.25+218.90=766.15 which is 26.2% higher damage than mutilate, for 1 energy more.


So, unless I'm figuring the 40% bonus wrong, or am missing something else, shouldn't Ambush out of stealth, and vanish+ambush be the optimal choice for DPS?


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It's outdated information in the guide, you are correct


The TL;DR of it is: Assassination Rogues used to open with Mutilate because of the double chance to apply poisons, but because a Crit build is currently more effective it's better to use Ambush


Without enough Mastery, it's really pointless to use Mutilate as an opener / after Vanish

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Ah ok, makes sense I guess. Guide says crit is best but they haven't changed the opener/vanish priority I guess, ok, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything important, lol. Thanks!

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Yeah I don't have the power to write or update the guides lol. Always good to double check / use common sense

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Firstly, I wouldn't pay too much attention to rotation guides until you're at level 90 and have all the spells and talents. Things die long before you get a chance to get anything rolling, so optimising your opener is rather pointless right now. I say this as someone who was very new to WoW and read up on a lot of things that weren't relevant to me and then struggled to understand why I couldn't follow the rotation while levelling... no one ever tells you that it's only important for max level content :-(


As for Mut vs Ambush...


Aside from the double chance to proc poisons (and dancing steel, I think, and anything else that procs from melee hits, including Seal Fate for an extra crit, which means a potential extra combo point from using Mut), Mutilate gives a 30% chance to proc Blindside, which gives you a free Dispatch.


Over the course of many fights any good/bad luck streaks will even out, so taking averages and using my own gear as an example;


My daggers have 198-369 weapon damage. I'll take 283.5 as the average. I also have 43.83% crit chance.


Ambush costs 15 energy from stealth with the Shadow Focus talent. It does 275% damage, plus 40% with a dagger. I'm not entirely certain if that's a total of 315% (275 + 40)% or if it's an additional 40% of the 275% for a total of 385% (275 * 1.4)%


For the sake of argument, I'll take it to be 385%


That's 1091 damage for 15 energy. Averaging the crit chance, this is 1091 * 1.4383 = 1569.87 damage, plus 2 CP from Ambush and 0.4383 CP from Seal Fate.


In terms of damage per energy (DPE), Ambush gives 104.66 DPE and 2.4 CP per use.


Mutilate costs 14 energy. Does 210% main-hand, and 105% off-hand (because of the 50% lower damage from OH attacks) for a total of 315%. Gives 2 CP. Also a 30% chance for Blindside, which makes Dispatch free. Dispatch deals 330% damage and gives 1 CP. Mut also attacks with both weapons, so additional chance to proc Seal Fate.


Mut damage = (595.35 * 1.4383) + (297.675 * 1.4383) = 1284.44 damage. Plus 2 CP, plus 0.6845 CP from Seal Fate.

Dispatch damage = 0.3 * 935.55 * 1.4383 = 403.68, and 0.4315 CP.


Total of 1688.12 damage means Mutilate gives 120.58 DPE and 2.8 CP per use


That's taking into account averages over the course of many fights, though. If you're unlucky with Blindside procs and you never get one from using Mut while stealthed, then Ambush would have been better. But using Ambush means you never have a chance to proc Blindside. For me, the chance of missing out on a free Dispatch is too great to lose. If you are going to be annoyed every time you use Mutilate and don't get a proc, stick with Ambush ;-)


Also, I hope my calculations are right...

Edited by Falcifer

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