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Astynax

Now that we're capped, let's ask the hard questions...

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what am I raiding as? E.G. What's good? and what's looking good? I've had no time on the beta, and no concept of what I should be walking into Highmaul with in a few weeks. Or what I should be trying in the meantime, or when content opens. 

 

That said, what am I looking for on my gear? Is it SoO style, where I'll be playing 1 spec the whole time (which doesn't feel like the case, but maybe it is.) Or will I be looking to hybridize as much as possible between two specs that fit the mechanics the best? 

 

I've tried to keep current, and heard a lot of hate from demo numbers, but I really haven't been able to dig up much meat, for whatever reason. So, help me know fellow Locks? 

 

As always, thanks in advance.

Asty

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Since the last tuning was to even out the speccs for SoO/Lvl 90, there are definitely some changes going to come. This makes it imho a bit hard to give a recommendation besides "Play what you like or feel comfortable with". Seems like number-wise destro wins now, but this is in low-gear. Affliction needs either gear or buffs, because with long kill times(first kills/ low gear etc.), its burst capabilities diminish.

Edited by Desos

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For group play I am Destro, solo Demo.

 

Demo is playing really well and have enjoyed it leveling and for my daily running around in the world....Cataclysm is so much fun.  I was swapping to DemonBolt for bosses but didn't find THAT much difference.. but I also don't have the gear scaling yet to separate them.  Just sticking with Cata for the most part.

 

Demo is fairly far behind from my exp.  I can go into a 5 man boss with full fury, burn burst cooldowns like imp swarm... and still not even come close on meters.  Its really looking like it will need the nerfs reverted.

 

But when it comes to group play I'm swapping back to GoSup-Servitude-Mannororths Destro

 

Messed with Chaotic Resources a bit... and yep.. I still hate it and its still terrible.  Service may be slightly better, but keeping it simple right now with Sup.

Edited by Soulzar
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Destro is definitely playing the best as Soulzar was saying.  Demo in 5 mans does feel very weak in its current state but I see things changing for all the specs soon.  I wish CR was a 1.5 min CD or something and a bit more powerful, but for now I hate it, hate being forced to not use GoSac unless I also take Cata which I have been.  I feel pigeonholed right now with the current builds but holding strong.

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Demo is fairly far behind from my exp.  I can go into a 5 man boss with full fury, burn burst cooldowns like imp swarm... and still not even come close on meters.  Its really looking like it will need the nerfs reverted.

 

 

It bursts actually pretty well on start with full fury and Demonbolt. With KR, old potion and flask I managed to a 40k dps spike with imo iLvl 620 for a safe #1. The problem lies, besides the fact that you don´t start with full fury, inbetween burst phases, where maintaining dots and a bit HoG+ Shadowbolt does not win a prize on single target...or it´s me, still gimping around and clinging on the old HoG-Filler-HoG-Meta play.

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Been off forums leveling last few days, so far what I've seen is Demo is basically totally trash. Aff isn't bad if you manage it well and don't have to much movement. Destro does really well, ST is slightly weaker then I'd like compared to something like a Glad warrior but the AoE is amazing. Cata hits like a semi truck. 

 

Cata is baller for AoE, DS is nice for ST and for mechanics, so far I have seen zero uses for CR.

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I did all but two little things leveling as Demo. It's really good for that like Soulzar said, but now that I'm starting dungeons It's very much struggle bus to keep up with anyone else I'm queuing with unless I can get Cataclysm off on lots of adds or can get DS with 800 fury and 8 MC charges on the pull. Even then, It's only exceptional for the Cataclysm on lots of targets in which case that one cast will be 35% of my damage. Trying Destro tonight and crying the whole time.

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Demo/Aff are really..really..really bad at 100. The only real viable choice right now is destro for pve. Hotfixes will happen, blah blah, not the end of the world, blah blah.

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This is my first time back since the first tier of MoP raiding but warlocks feel weak at 100 right now. Destro is the only marginally good spec and even then it seems to suck compared to other classes. Not to mention Affliction is just downright boring now without snapshotting. I'm seriously considering switching my main for the first time since vanilla.

Edited by Tomed

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I did all but two little things leveling as Demo. It's really good for that like Soulzar said, but now that I'm starting dungeons It's very much struggle bus to keep up with anyone else I'm queuing with unless I can get Cataclysm off on lots of adds or can get DS with 800 fury and 8 MC charges on the pull. Even then, It's only exceptional for the Cataclysm on lots of targets in which case that one cast will be 35% of my damage. Trying Destro tonight and crying the whole time.

 

 

Same. I leveled all the way as Demo, but taking it into a group or two I felt gimped on trash, and not super helpful on bosses to make up for it. I was doing alright, but worse off than destro. On the bright side: we could have to play aff.

 

 

Demo/Aff are really..really..really bad at 100. The only real viable choice right now is destro for pve. Hotfixes will happen, blah blah, not the end of the world, blah blah.

 

I don't think Demo feels that bad. It's not CM material, but I don't think it's going to kill your group either, if played well. Maybe you're being sarcastic, and it's not coming through to me, but I can see it doing alright with minor tweaks, and mechanics depending. E.g. I feel it would be good on Warlord Zaela due to movement/burst. Aff almost has to be strong on teh right fight, those just don't exist in dungeons. For it to not compete on council style encounters that fit it, the other specs have to be either broken or it has to be god-awful.

 

This is my first time back since the first tier of MoP raiding but warlocks feel weak at 100 right now. Destro is the only marginally good spec and even then it seems to suck compared to other classes. Not to mention Affliction is just downright boring now without snapshotting. I'm seriously considering switching my main for the first time since vanilla.

 

I don't agree. I'm grouping with the rest of our raiders, who are pretty much all 14/14H(M) for last tier, and rare is the occassion I'm not on top as destro. Sure, i'd rather play demo, but I can't say we're weak. I've only ever been contested by a good, geared, fury war, and only beaten by an enhance sham, also much better geared than me. Plus the cheese.

Edited by Astynax

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Finished post-patch SoO as Demo and reliably beat other dps with the exception of one hunter who's a badass and any warrior over il200.  Leveled as Demo and died a whole once when I got a little carried away with the chain pulling and got my horribly named Wrathguard killed.  Doing heroics now I'm always last in dps with the exception of the rare fast boss fight where my burst counts more.

 

IMO right now its too slow.  Haste may not be our best stat, but SBolt casts like Chaos Bolt right now.  I can't reliably build up fury fast enough for my liking.  I do half the DPS of the aforementioned hunter now. 

 

I had to drop my Aff offspec for Destro today because its damn impossible to farm up Riverbeasts for feasts with Demo as I keep pooping out imps who insist on killing my dinner.  I'll try it in heroics tomorrow and see how I do.

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Destro for PvE - period.  There's no way around it.  Affliction has to have decent to good RNG to keep up with Destruction on anything over 2 minutes.  I'm keeping raiding and Challenge Mode bosses in mind here.  5 man heroic bosses should be trivial fodder at this point. 

 

Adjustments are needed as follows based on my observations/testing:

 

Rain of Fire needs to be nerfed so it's not a single target DPS gain.  It's too powerful as it is.  Incinerate, Immolate, and Conflagrate need a 5-10% buff.  Charred Remains needs fixed in a serious way.  I think a way to fix it would be to have Fire and Brimstone consume half of the Burning Embers normally required so that we can FnB more Chaos Bolts and have the talent compete with Cataclysm and the Abyssal in AoE.

 

Demonbolt needs its 30% nerf reverted, Shadowbolt needs a 15-20% increase, & Soul Fire needs a 5-10% increase.  Wild Imps need a 10-20% buff.  Hand of Guldan and Chaos Wave are fine, if not a bit overpowered.   

 

Affliction needs a 10-15% buff to each DoT.  Leave the rest of the spec alone and I believe this would fix it.  Soulburn: Haunt needs a 5-10% buff.

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My testing agrees with Zag, although I would a hard 5% nerf to Chaos Wave and a change to GoSym so that it is less RNGy

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Destro for PvE - period.  There's no way around it.  Affliction has to have decent to good RNG to keep up with Destruction on anything over 2 minutes.  I'm keeping raiding and Challenge Mode bosses in mind here.  5 man heroic bosses should be trivial fodder at this point. 

 

Adjustments are needed as follows based on my observations/testing:

 

Rain of Fire needs to be nerfed so it's not a single target DPS gain.  It's too powerful as it is.  Incinerate, Immolate, and Conflagrate need a 5-10% buff.  Charred Remains needs fixed in a serious way.  I think a way to fix it would be to have Fire and Brimstone consume half of the Burning Embers normally required so that we can FnB more Chaos Bolts and have the talent compete with Cataclysm and the Abyssal in AoE.

 

Demonbolt needs its 30% nerf reverted, Shadowbolt needs a 15-20% increase, & Soul Fire needs a 5-10% increase.  Wild Imps need a 10-20% buff.  Hand of Guldan and Chaos Wave are fine, if not a bit overpowered.   

 

Affliction needs a 10-15% buff to each DoT.  Leave the rest of the spec alone and I believe this would fix it.  Soulburn: Haunt needs a 5-10% buff.

Are they still upset about us using UVLS in Demo during ToT so we can never play Demo again?

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Soulburn haunt needs no buff because if you buff the dots and then buff the buff for the dots, you create a sand trap.

 

Charred remains needed to not be fully abandoned at the start of beta when they lowered the generation from 4x to 3x but left the % damage untouched. I've provided 3 ways for them to tune it in the past, to no avail.

 

You're suggested demo changes will put it right back to the state where it was 5k ahead of every other spec in the game. Demonbolt needs MINOR buffs. I MEAN MINOR.

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Soulburn haunt needs no buff because if you buff the dots and then buff the buff for the dots, you create a sand trap.

 

Charred remains needed to not be fully abandoned at the start of beta when they lowered the generation from 4x to 3x but left the % damage untouched. I've provided 3 ways for them to tune it in the past, to no avail.

 

You're suggested demo changes will put it right back to the state where it was 5k ahead of every other spec in the game. Demonbolt needs MINOR buffs. I MEAN MINOR.

I wouldn't mind a minor buff to Demonbolt if they made Sbolt and Sfire a bit better.  I don't like the spikeyness of Demonbolt limiting playstyle to 40-60 second burst windows.  I'm also not suggesting buffs to bring Demo/Aff to Destruction - I was more aligning them with the top specs.  It's overzealous, but it's not like it has any bearing on what will actually happen.

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I levelled as Demo with a smile as I was able to play my favourite spec.

 

Two dungeons at 100 and I dropped it for Destro and havn't looked back. Went from being embarrassing on the meters to doing really well and being competitive. Won't be going back to Demo until I see some concise data that it's on par with Destro.

 

Unfortunately in the situation where I really can't be taking specs just for the fun of it, need to be putting out the best my class can do. 

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I levelled as Demo with a smile as I was able to play my favourite spec.

 

Two dungeons at 100 and I dropped it for Destro and havn't looked back. Went from being embarrassing on the meters to doing really well and being competitive. Won't be going back to Demo until I see some concise data that it's on par with Destro.

 

Unfortunately in the situation where I really can't be taking specs just for the fun of it, need to be putting out the best my class can do.

Welp... That was fast! Lol

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