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Bear tanking Stone Guard

28 replies to this topic Started by Krazyito, Oct 10 2012 04:19 PM druid guardian stone guard
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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:19 PM

#1
Krazyito
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So the only fight I have to tank for my raid is Stone Guard. I am an off tank that only handles one guardian at a time. I am fairly certain that we will unlock heroics this week and have some attempts next week so I want to be ready. So I have a few questions about gearing/reforging/gemming. For that specific fight mastery is useless because of the bleed effect they put, correct? The same goes for dodge because I don't think I can dodge that bleed enough to make a difference. So correct me if I'm wrong, but most of my survivablilty will come form using Frenzied Regen and gaining as much rage as I can, which entails me getting hit/exp capped OR gaining more crit, or both with proper gear. How would you go about gemming for example? should I put more agi? More stam? Stam/crit? Stam/Agi? Lastly, what potion should I use? Since bleeds ignore armor should I just use an Agility one? Same with flask. I've been using Stam for now. I think though, the biggest thing I'll need is Stamina, since I wont get very much raid loot for my Off-spec until our rogues/feral's get it for main spec. So I'll just be getting loot from dungeons/valor/JP. (LFR I still need healing gear). Though that should suffice for the first heroic boss of this tier Your thoughts?

Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:10 PM

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Clisis
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So the only fight I have to tank for my raid is Stone Guard. I am an off tank that only handles one guardian at a time. I am fairly certain that we will unlock heroics this week and have some attempts next week so I want to be ready.

So I have a few questions about gearing/reforging/gemming. For that specific fight mastery is useless because of the bleed effect they put, correct? The same goes for dodge because I don't think I can dodge that bleed enough to make a difference.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but most of my survivablilty will come form using Frenzied Regen and gaining as much rage as I can, which entails me getting hit/exp capped OR gaining more crit, or both with proper gear. How would you go about gemming for example? should I put more agi? More stam? Stam/crit? Stam/Agi?

Lastly, what potion should I use? Since bleeds ignore armor should I just use an Agility one? Same with flask. I've been using Stam for now.

I think though, the biggest thing I'll need is Stamina, since I wont get very much raid loot for my Off-spec until our rogues/feral's get it for main spec. So I'll just be getting loot from dungeons/valor/JP. (LFR I still need healing gear). Though that should suffice for the first heroic boss of this tier

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are bear tanks for this fight are over powered, aka being Vengence and my guild's bear tank being Top 3 on in our 25 man group! ITS CRAZY! I also wish your guild best of luck! My guild just hit 4/6 last night! woot woot!

Edited by Clisis, 10 October 2012 - 08:11 PM.

Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:03 PM

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Krazyito
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Well, our paladin is our main tank for our raid and I'm just off-speccing tank. I'm trying to figure out what gear and how I should reforge/gem for this specific fight. I think I'm going to go with a crit/hit/expertise build to generate tons of rage for FR spamming.

Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

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Hi, my main spec is guardian tank. You are correct in thinking you cannot dodge the bleed and the bleed will be your main damage source . Ignore dodge for this fight. Also since you say you only will be tanking the 1 guard, your dps will be nullified by his shield so ignore agility as a stat as well for this specific fight . What you want to do is make sure you have a lot of stamina and secondary stat is mastery as a steady passive armor buff. You should use hybrid gems to match socket colurs with a hybrid stamina + hit/crit/expertise gem. Basically all you have to do is be the biggest sponge to soak up damage you can be. This strategy is especially true if your goal is heroic stone guard. Use stamina trinkets (even the brewfest one is fine regardless of the weak on use ability). When using the basic rotation mangle, lacerate, trash, lacerate (6 sec rotation) you should have enough rage to cast frenzied regen (also lasting 6 seconds). Symbiosis on a rogue will help you defend againd some of the aoe abilities from the traps,

Edited by stitcherr, 16 October 2012 - 05:22 PM.

Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:55 PM

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Krazyito
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You say to have a lot of mastery, but I was to my understanding that bleeds ignore armor. Am I correct in that? or is the stone guard bleed a special case?

Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:31 PM

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stitcherr
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You say to have a lot of mastery, but I was to my understanding that bleeds ignore armor. Am I correct in that? or is the stone guard bleed a special case?


The bleed hits for its full amount, I just double checked World of Logs on my personal fights to make sure. Mastery in my opinion is still a good secondary stat because of the other sources of damage you have to endure. I took 66% of my damage from the bleed and 26 % from melee atacks. If you look at the leather gear, youll find a lot of pieces that have the preferred combination of crit and mastery (the crafted pieces are fine examples). Reforging mastery to hit/expertise on those items should make you a more stable tank to heal instead of going for full leather dps gear focussing on hit or expertise (often combined with haste) without mastery for adittional incoming damage.

Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:56 PM

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Krazyito
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Well, I'm stuck with what ever gear I have right now. I haven't really tried to pick up specific pieces but yes, I was gonna try for more crit/mastery gear anyway. I thought when you were talking about mastery you meant gemming.

Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:21 PM

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Tova
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Just a few things I've found helpful. First of all more mastery (armour) is good yes but on this fight say you're taking on average 50k dps from the bleed. You manage to go all in mastery and get 6k more mastery than you currently have! (This is probably really high) With 6k more mastery you get about 3% less physical damage taken...

Damage Taken: 50000dps
Decrease in Damage Taken: 1500dps
New Damage Taken: 48500 dps

You`re going to take 1500 less dps for 6k off stats!!!!

Now let`s look at 6k more say... crit.

Around 36% crit you need about 580 rating for one crit out of bear... in bear you only need 387!

Therefore 6000 rating gives 15% crit!!!

Ok this is a little over the top but you get the idea... you`re looking at 1% crit for every 100dps less you take... think of all the rage.

If you want to work out you`re stat weights and how much rage/sec you're getting I have a ton of stuff posted at http://theetova.blogspot.ca/

Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:36 PM

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Krazyito
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So you are telling me, bleeds do not ignore armor? that with more mastery, I'm taking less damage over all? Please correct me if I'm wrong but, it was to my understanding that since the rend debuff is a bleed, my mastery is useless against that.

Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

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Tova
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Physical damage bleeds do not ignore armour. I'm still trying to confirm but I've looked at a number of logs and no where do I see any tank taking the 85k ticks that the ingame dungeon journal says. Granted though I'm seeing tanks taking ~62-65k ticks when we have about -58% damage reduction from 93s.

Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:47 PM

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Physical damage bleeds do not ignore armour. I'm still trying to confirm but I've looked at a number of logs and no where do I see any tank taking the 85k ticks that the ingame dungeon journal says. Granted though I'm seeing tanks taking ~62-65k ticks when we have about -58% damage reduction from 93s.


I don't know, testing it would require time tho, I know for a fact that during the dungeon Mogu Palace, as a bear tank i bearly (hahaha) take much damage, yet the final pack of mobs (The four statues in front of boss) literally tears me up if the healer is not prepared, which usually they do not expect unless they are used to the bleeds being insane at that part.

Guess one can easily test it out in that dungeon since the bleeds work the same.

Edited by Sneakyferret, 18 October 2012 - 03:48 PM.

Moon Guard - Sneakyferret (Druid) Horde

Guardian = 476 ilvl

Boomkin = 463 ilvl

Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

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Tova
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Either way, putting your stats into RPS generating stats is going to give you a lot more HPS from FR then the amount that you would mitigate from armour (from mastery). It just takes way too much rating (about 2k) to get 1% less damage taken. This goes further to why I personally <3 stam. You can never go wrong being fat! Take a little more damage, get sweet healers and heal yourself for more with FR because you have that higher RPS. Everything is so subjective, like I've said play smart, play bear.

Posted 20 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

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Warguard
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My guild jsut started doing HM attempts for this fight this week and i was lookign at the dmg taken and i am taking way more rend damage over our other 2 tanks is this correct? Also is there any more info on if stacking more mastery for this fight would help with the rend bleed dmg?

Posted 21 October 2012 - 08:06 PM

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Tova
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I noticed at first I was taking quite a bit more damage too but I'm usually the one tanking two in ten man. I really found it helpful to go all in rage per second and be another healer. This week I did almost 40k HPS. It wasn't even the amount of healing it was the fact they were all instant and under my control.

Here is a video of this weeks kill from my PoV

Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

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Warguard
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Im in a 25man guild and im only tanking 1 of the dogs, our dk tank is actually the one tanking 2 but that really doesnt matter since you only have 1 rend bleed on you. It just seems that it ticks harder on a guardian druid than both our dk and monk tanks. Now can u explain all in rage per sec im just a OT, im mostly feral kitty only tank when we need that 3rd tank for fights. And ty for all the info you have given so far its really helpful for me since i focus more on the dps side of the druid than tanking.

Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:53 PM

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Tova
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The biggest reason that you'll see you taking more bleed damage is the monk has stagger (part of the bleed damage is taken over time so it will show up under stagger and not bleed damage) and the dk has the absorbs from their mastery (blood shield I believe it's called). As for rage per second, it's just how much rage you generate to use on FR specifically for Stone Guards. The more rage you can generate the more healing you can do. Further, this is why crit becomes so important. First we get 15 extra rage from crits with melees and mangles (which is more than double the base rage for a hit) and we get 50% more crit rating in bear form. Example: Say you have 5 RPS It will take you 12 seconds to get 60 rage (the best time to use a FR) If you can double the amount of rage you generate You have 10 RPS Taking only 6 second to get a full FR

Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:24 PM

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@tova, been checking your blogspot. What your posting on rage stats over more classic mitigation states makes sense. The sheet on rage over time needed for maximum uptime for example, helpful. Do you or anyone else have a link for calculator for bear rps? Been searching my ass, checking internet sites for a calcualtor off with no luck. I'm very curious to see the actual numbers based on the input of actual stats to see how close I am to the required rage generation per second without having to reforge/gem/enchant my acual gear to find out.

Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

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Warguard
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Tova thanks for the input i was able to stay alive alot better last night which helped us in downing this fight, reforging things to crit to help generate more rage helped a ton. Once again much apreciated Posted Image .

Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:45 PM

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Krazyito
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Here are my logs for that fight when I killed it after reforging and gemming tons of crit

http://www.worldoflo...sedj/details/9/

Edited by krazyito65, 22 October 2012 - 04:45 PM.

Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:49 PM

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Tova
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@stitcherr if you have a Google account you can save my spreadsheet as your own and change numbers. I've highlighted the cells in green that you need to change based on your character. All the numbers should update for you. Very happy to help Wayguard. The only thing I noticed with your logs Krazy is your aveage FR was only about 140k. You were just tanking one correct? If so that's why this might be a bit low. The other reason would be using it too much before 60 rage. Second 29% overheal! I didn't do much better but I'm shooting to get my overhealing down.

Edited by Tova, 22 October 2012 - 05:53 PM.

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