Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Amathor

Why does noone try this..?

7 posts in this topic

Ok SO..

Everyone i've heard so far.. "2H Frost way out-preforms DW Frost for DPS"

Majority of this information is gathered from SIMS, however i've seen many DK's in game try both with those results..

HOWEVER.

Everyone assumes, because Threat of Thassarian increases Frost Strike damage by 40%

"When dual-wielding, your Death Strikes, Obliterates, Plague Strikes, and Frost Strikes also deal damage with your off-hand weapon, and your Frost Strike damage is increased by 40%."

that DW Frost will always favor Mastery>Haste almost point-for-point. (Meaning if you have a choice between 110mastery and 100haste you would always choose mastery.) BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE!

I don't give a damn what the 'sims' say about DW frost dps. It preforms best at a 45-48% Haste soft-cap.

I've tried reforging several ways as DW. the askmrrobot weights (leaves me around 34% haste at ilvl470) and the elitist jerks weights (leaves me around 30% haste at ilvl 470) and my way (leaves me at 45.5% haste at ilvl 470)

and the DPS changes are VERY immense.

EJ's: ~50k

Robots:~53k

My way:~64k

The sims are usually based off the same (or close to) weights as either Robot or EJ. This is why 2H pulls ahead in sims, and, when a player tries dw to see, 2h still pulls ahead. Reason being at 45.5% haste you have a 9.1sec rune regen. at 40% you have a 9.65 and at 35% you have a 9.98sec rune regen.

This .88 sec doesn't seem like alot, but it is. It's the diffrence between running into having to wait 9seconds for a rune to come up cuz ur RP drained and rune drained. and waiting about 2sec, and it also occures alot less often.

Now, I completly agree ToT made FS pro-status for DW and makes Mastery ALOT more useful for us. However, I do not see why DW is dismissed so easily on the sims, without tweaking the stats around. Yes maste>haste pulls more dps then haste>mast on dw. but why havent they tried haste=45%>maste>haste ?

Input please, i'd like to know what i'm missing here.

(And for the record, i HAVE tried 2h frost, same Ilvl, reforged and gemmed appropriatly, and i still pull more as DW)

I have yet to be out-dpsed by a 2h frost dk. they are close, but i'm still higher.

~Amathor <Zenith> -- Kil'Jaeden (Horde)

DPS:

Self-buffed Single Raid Dummy ~ 5min: 78k

Self-buffed AoE Raid Dummy(3 dummies) ~5min: 89k

10man reg Guardians: 77k

10man reg Fen: 71k

10 man reg Spiritbender: 69k

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've not done much theorycrafting with frost, but i don't think there are any haste soft caps. Could you please elaborate on how 45.5% haste is significant? What is special about 9.1s rune regen that would justify making that a soft cap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to Reniat's valid question, I'd also like to state that your sample size appears to be extremely small (personal experimentation), whereas simulations run on much much greater sample sizes.

But aside from that, I'm not saying that you are wrong - a lot of things in WoW have been dismissed as weak until properly understood. I think you will find the best place for theorycrafting for Death Knights to still be EJ's forums - so I'd urge you to post there. If your maths is solid, then I'm sure it will get the right recognition. And if you do, or already have posted there, please post the link here, because I'm naturally interested in the topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing as 2h frost now and dying to know about DW. Simcraft is saying that DW is now doing around 120k!!! I will try later on, the only problem I have got is cause I am level 483 (2H) with elegon weapon and to go DW I will have to buy 2 one swords from Klaxxi. This will for sure drop my dps alot.

I gonna buy 2 one hand sword and 1 2h sword from Klaxxi, so gear should be the same... lets see!

Anymore details about this Amathor? How do you reforge? What are the stats weight?

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sims are usually based off the same (or close to) weights as either Robot or EJ.

I'm not sure which sims you are referring to but Simulationcraft will certainly calculate your own personal stat weights (which vary considerably from the ilvl 509 weights mentioned on Elitist Jerks' site when you've not got BiS gear). Which simulations blindly use such published weights?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure which sims you are referring to but Simulationcraft will certainly calculate your own personal stat weights (which vary considerably from the ilvl 509 weights mentioned on Elitist Jerks' site when you've not got BiS gear). Which simulations blindly use such published weights?

I don't know, but Ask Mr Robot's optimization certainly calculates weights based on the current character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so that now Simcraft has been updated to remove the last bug, how are things simming out for DW, both stats and gems. Is there a sweet spot for haste for DW or does Mastery rule at all levels? I'm getting odd results and this could all be because the sim software is new to me. My reforge/gem results are telling me to toss out my 4000 haste for 2900 haste and put everything into str gems and reforge for mastery? My ilevel is 482 and i've been running either 25k or 50k iterations. I would really like to get a short "to-do" list like go to X and run this and then do this ... I've seen a lot of 2H conversation in this forum, time for DW's to speak up. Thank you much and happy holidays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By turkstyx
      Who we are
      Leviathan is a Horde side guild currently on Hyjal-US looking to recruit exceptional and friendly players to join us for our raid team.
      Progression
      7/7N Highmaul
      7/7H Highmaul
      10/10N Blackrock Foundry
      10/10H Blackrock Foundry (guild AotC)
      13/13 N Hellfire Citadel
      13/13 H Hellfire Citadel
      What we have
      Dedicated players who strive to be the best they can and learn quickly to progress and have fun. We're a guild that's all about pushing solid, steady progression while maintaining a positive and teamwork-oriented atmosphere. We're looking to bolster our ranks with players who are looking for a similar environment. Mythic clear is always the objective. We have a rather small raid schedule and because of that we need to be focused and efficient. For this reason we expect preparation and punctuality from our core raiders. As much as we're all about fun, we need to make sure everyone's time is being respected. Know your class, know the fights, be prepared and if you need help...just ask!
      Raid times/days
      Mondays 7:00 pm-10:00pm server (PST)
      Tuesdays 7:00 pm-10:00pm server (PST)
      Thursdays 7:00 pm-10:00pm server (PST)
      Recruitment is: **OPEN for all classes**
      Requirements
      Know your class Have Ventrilo Show up on time Be able to take constructive criticism Be a team player How to contact me
      Bnet for the GM (5/13M): Lynxabane#1231
      Bnet for the RaidLeader (5/13M): Streichersix#1406
      Bnet for Co-Raidleader(13/13H): Turkstyx#1486
      Pm in game
      Post below/shoot us a pm here
    • By molodirazz
      [H] <Asylum> 13/13M before pre-patch recruiting dps and healers for Legion progression.
      All applications will be reviewed and considered however if you are playing a class/spec combination we need then your chances of joining will be higher.
      A little bit of info about us:
      We are a group of friends and serious raiders on EU Twisting Nether looking to recruit skilled like-minded players into our roster to progress through mythic. We will offer a sociable and fun raiding environment while maintaining a strong desire for progression. Our Discord is very active and we encourage all members to chat and play together not only for raids.
      We currently raid Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday 19:00-22:00 server time. We run social/alt raids during off days in which all ranks of the guild are welcome to come to. Our members also play other games outside raid times together where anyone is also welcome to join(LoL, Dota, HotS, Overwatch etc.).
      Our loot system for Mythic is RC Loot Council.
      What we expect from you:
      - We are a raiding guild with a 3 days a week schedule that you are expected to attend. However we understand things can come up but please let us know.
      - Be able to speak and understand the English language and not be afraid to communicate with other members during raids.
      - Have a strong understanding of the current raid tier and be able to play your class to it's potential.
      - Always come prepared to raids  (i.e. bringing food and potions, etc).
      - Come fully gemmed and enchanted with the correct stats for your class and spec.
      - Access to Discord and a working microphone.
      - Have a computer that can handle 20 man raiding.
      - Exorsus Raid Tools and RC Loot Council addons installed. We may ask you to install others.
      - requirements for joining our raids in current content
      - Have the legendary ring quest complete.
      - Have an item level of at least 730(We may make exceptions).
      ________________________________________________________________________
      You will receive a response within 3 days. The trial process will last 2 weeks, sometimes longer depending on the circumstances. During the trial period you will not have loot priority over raiders however you may of course still roll.
      If you have any further questions please contact us at battletags: vims#21684, Mizrie#2871 or go to our website: http://asylum-tn.enjin.com/
      As stated before every application is considered however the ones listed below have a higher chance of getting accepted.
      We're especially looking for a healer at the moment.
      Paladin: Holy.
      Rogue: One.
      Priest: Shadow
      Mage: One
    • By future
      <Toxin> is looking for members to fill out all roles in the raid teams! We are a laid-back guild whos primary goal is providing a well knit group of raiders who fit into our two raid teams. We have one team that runs on weekends(Sat/Sun 1-4pm PST), and one on weekdays(Tues/Thurs 6-9pm PST). we will be using personal loot as we begin raiding in Legion and request that an 80% attendance be maintained as well. 

      Outside of our raid teams we offer an excellent drama free community for your friends and family to join and enjoy the game with us all. As well as a knowledgeable group of players willing to help those who want it. 

      If you have any questions feel free to contact our GM at 17hmmorris@gmail.com, our weekend raid leader on b.net(Russ#1411), Our Weekday Raid leader on b.net(Red#13988) or myself on b.net(futuresiinz#1685).

      Alternatively you can apply at http://toxinguild.gamerlaunch.com/

      Current class wants and and needs are as follows.

      Weekdays:
      Paladin: Holy/Ret
      Druid: Feral/Balance
      Priest: Shadow/disc
      Monk: Windwalker
      Shaman: Resto/Ele
      Warrior: None
      Warlock: Any
      Mage: Any
      Rogue: Any
      Hunter: Marks/BM/Surv
      Demon Hunter: Havoc
      Death Knight: Unholy/Frost

      Weekends:
      Paladin: Holy/Ret
      Druid: None
      Priest: None
      Monk: None
      Shaman: Resto/Enhance/Ele
      Warrior: Fury/Arms
      Warlock: Any
      Mage: Any
      Rogue: Any
      Hunter: Marks/BM/Surv
      Demon Hunter: None
      Death Knight: Unholy/Frost
    • By clx
      H] <Loot Train> is a newly formed guild of returning veterans with a lot of top 50 US experience looking to re-start progression raiding in Legion.

      We are currently focused on quickly establishing a heroic clearing team so that we can move on to mythic raids in Legion. We have all tanking healing and melee DPS roles filled and just need to plug in some great ranged DPS. We are looking for exceptional players with progression raiding experience who know their class and min max there chars.

      We raid 2 nights per week and our goal is to progress and clear as much as possible with the time we are allowed. We have high standards and while we understand we are not a world-first pushing guild and while we will work with someone to make them better we do expect strong performance and productivity. We expect you to come prepared for raid being properly informed and knowledgeable of what is to come.

      Our raid schedule is:
      Tuesday 9-1am EST
      Thursday 9-1am EST
      Monday 8-1am EST (optional alt/carry runs)

      Current recruiting needs: (exceptional applicants will always be considered)

      DPS:
      5-6 ranged spots available
      1 DPS/situational heal

      Heals:
      1 Disc priest
      1 Shaman

      If you feel like you would be a good fit with our group, please feel free to submit an application at LTguild.com or contact us via bnet clx#1383 or vayn#1325.

      We look forward to hearing from you!

      *note the website is still under construction but the application is working.
    • By Kleggen
      Know i will provide to little info to say whats wrong or not, but i just started testing my sp after the patch.
      I have 701 item lvl no legendary ring, and no raid trinkets ( and no on use trinkets), feel i do very low dps, but what i would like to know, is this of my low geared char? After playing sp in many expansions i feel i know how to play the rotation, and read the guides and followed them.
      On boss dummies i do 26-29k dps, no buffs or potions. So all in all i just hope any one can try understand what im trying to say and get some response if this is low or ok dps for the gear I'm wearing .
       
      Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/azjolnerub/Jesuz/simple
      btw the Orb of Voidsight trinket was not used when i tested the dps. (Used a ilvl 670, int and crit trinket)