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Why does noone try this..?

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Ok SO..

Everyone i've heard so far.. "2H Frost way out-preforms DW Frost for DPS"

Majority of this information is gathered from SIMS, however i've seen many DK's in game try both with those results..


Everyone assumes, because Threat of Thassarian increases Frost Strike damage by 40%

"When dual-wielding, your Death Strikes, Obliterates, Plague Strikes, and Frost Strikes also deal damage with your off-hand weapon, and your Frost Strike damage is increased by 40%."

that DW Frost will always favor Mastery>Haste almost point-for-point. (Meaning if you have a choice between 110mastery and 100haste you would always choose mastery.) BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE!

I don't give a damn what the 'sims' say about DW frost dps. It preforms best at a 45-48% Haste soft-cap.

I've tried reforging several ways as DW. the askmrrobot weights (leaves me around 34% haste at ilvl470) and the elitist jerks weights (leaves me around 30% haste at ilvl 470) and my way (leaves me at 45.5% haste at ilvl 470)

and the DPS changes are VERY immense.

EJ's: ~50k


My way:~64k

The sims are usually based off the same (or close to) weights as either Robot or EJ. This is why 2H pulls ahead in sims, and, when a player tries dw to see, 2h still pulls ahead. Reason being at 45.5% haste you have a 9.1sec rune regen. at 40% you have a 9.65 and at 35% you have a 9.98sec rune regen.

This .88 sec doesn't seem like alot, but it is. It's the diffrence between running into having to wait 9seconds for a rune to come up cuz ur RP drained and rune drained. and waiting about 2sec, and it also occures alot less often.

Now, I completly agree ToT made FS pro-status for DW and makes Mastery ALOT more useful for us. However, I do not see why DW is dismissed so easily on the sims, without tweaking the stats around. Yes maste>haste pulls more dps then haste>mast on dw. but why havent they tried haste=45%>maste>haste ?

Input please, i'd like to know what i'm missing here.

(And for the record, i HAVE tried 2h frost, same Ilvl, reforged and gemmed appropriatly, and i still pull more as DW)

I have yet to be out-dpsed by a 2h frost dk. they are close, but i'm still higher.

~Amathor <Zenith> -- Kil'Jaeden (Horde)


Self-buffed Single Raid Dummy ~ 5min: 78k

Self-buffed AoE Raid Dummy(3 dummies) ~5min: 89k

10man reg Guardians: 77k

10man reg Fen: 71k

10 man reg Spiritbender: 69k

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I've not done much theorycrafting with frost, but i don't think there are any haste soft caps. Could you please elaborate on how 45.5% haste is significant? What is special about 9.1s rune regen that would justify making that a soft cap?

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In addition to Reniat's valid question, I'd also like to state that your sample size appears to be extremely small (personal experimentation), whereas simulations run on much much greater sample sizes.

But aside from that, I'm not saying that you are wrong - a lot of things in WoW have been dismissed as weak until properly understood. I think you will find the best place for theorycrafting for Death Knights to still be EJ's forums - so I'd urge you to post there. If your maths is solid, then I'm sure it will get the right recognition. And if you do, or already have posted there, please post the link here, because I'm naturally interested in the topic.

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Playing as 2h frost now and dying to know about DW. Simcraft is saying that DW is now doing around 120k!!! I will try later on, the only problem I have got is cause I am level 483 (2H) with elegon weapon and to go DW I will have to buy 2 one swords from Klaxxi. This will for sure drop my dps alot.

I gonna buy 2 one hand sword and 1 2h sword from Klaxxi, so gear should be the same... lets see!

Anymore details about this Amathor? How do you reforge? What are the stats weight?


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The sims are usually based off the same (or close to) weights as either Robot or EJ.

I'm not sure which sims you are referring to but Simulationcraft will certainly calculate your own personal stat weights (which vary considerably from the ilvl 509 weights mentioned on Elitist Jerks' site when you've not got BiS gear). Which simulations blindly use such published weights?

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I'm not sure which sims you are referring to but Simulationcraft will certainly calculate your own personal stat weights (which vary considerably from the ilvl 509 weights mentioned on Elitist Jerks' site when you've not got BiS gear). Which simulations blindly use such published weights?

I don't know, but Ask Mr Robot's optimization certainly calculates weights based on the current character.

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Okay, so that now Simcraft has been updated to remove the last bug, how are things simming out for DW, both stats and gems. Is there a sweet spot for haste for DW or does Mastery rule at all levels? I'm getting odd results and this could all be because the sim software is new to me. My reforge/gem results are telling me to toss out my 4000 haste for 2900 haste and put everything into str gems and reforge for mastery? My ilevel is 482 and i've been running either 25k or 50k iterations. I would really like to get a short "to-do" list like go to X and run this and then do this ... I've seen a lot of 2H conversation in this forum, time for DW's to speak up. Thank you much and happy holidays.

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