Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Amathor

Why does noone try this..?

7 posts in this topic

Ok SO..

Everyone i've heard so far.. "2H Frost way out-preforms DW Frost for DPS"

Majority of this information is gathered from SIMS, however i've seen many DK's in game try both with those results..

HOWEVER.

Everyone assumes, because Threat of Thassarian increases Frost Strike damage by 40%

"When dual-wielding, your Death Strikes, Obliterates, Plague Strikes, and Frost Strikes also deal damage with your off-hand weapon, and your Frost Strike damage is increased by 40%."

that DW Frost will always favor Mastery>Haste almost point-for-point. (Meaning if you have a choice between 110mastery and 100haste you would always choose mastery.) BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE!

I don't give a damn what the 'sims' say about DW frost dps. It preforms best at a 45-48% Haste soft-cap.

I've tried reforging several ways as DW. the askmrrobot weights (leaves me around 34% haste at ilvl470) and the elitist jerks weights (leaves me around 30% haste at ilvl 470) and my way (leaves me at 45.5% haste at ilvl 470)

and the DPS changes are VERY immense.

EJ's: ~50k

Robots:~53k

My way:~64k

The sims are usually based off the same (or close to) weights as either Robot or EJ. This is why 2H pulls ahead in sims, and, when a player tries dw to see, 2h still pulls ahead. Reason being at 45.5% haste you have a 9.1sec rune regen. at 40% you have a 9.65 and at 35% you have a 9.98sec rune regen.

This .88 sec doesn't seem like alot, but it is. It's the diffrence between running into having to wait 9seconds for a rune to come up cuz ur RP drained and rune drained. and waiting about 2sec, and it also occures alot less often.

Now, I completly agree ToT made FS pro-status for DW and makes Mastery ALOT more useful for us. However, I do not see why DW is dismissed so easily on the sims, without tweaking the stats around. Yes maste>haste pulls more dps then haste>mast on dw. but why havent they tried haste=45%>maste>haste ?

Input please, i'd like to know what i'm missing here.

(And for the record, i HAVE tried 2h frost, same Ilvl, reforged and gemmed appropriatly, and i still pull more as DW)

I have yet to be out-dpsed by a 2h frost dk. they are close, but i'm still higher.

~Amathor <Zenith> -- Kil'Jaeden (Horde)

DPS:

Self-buffed Single Raid Dummy ~ 5min: 78k

Self-buffed AoE Raid Dummy(3 dummies) ~5min: 89k

10man reg Guardians: 77k

10man reg Fen: 71k

10 man reg Spiritbender: 69k

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've not done much theorycrafting with frost, but i don't think there are any haste soft caps. Could you please elaborate on how 45.5% haste is significant? What is special about 9.1s rune regen that would justify making that a soft cap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to Reniat's valid question, I'd also like to state that your sample size appears to be extremely small (personal experimentation), whereas simulations run on much much greater sample sizes.

But aside from that, I'm not saying that you are wrong - a lot of things in WoW have been dismissed as weak until properly understood. I think you will find the best place for theorycrafting for Death Knights to still be EJ's forums - so I'd urge you to post there. If your maths is solid, then I'm sure it will get the right recognition. And if you do, or already have posted there, please post the link here, because I'm naturally interested in the topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing as 2h frost now and dying to know about DW. Simcraft is saying that DW is now doing around 120k!!! I will try later on, the only problem I have got is cause I am level 483 (2H) with elegon weapon and to go DW I will have to buy 2 one swords from Klaxxi. This will for sure drop my dps alot.

I gonna buy 2 one hand sword and 1 2h sword from Klaxxi, so gear should be the same... lets see!

Anymore details about this Amathor? How do you reforge? What are the stats weight?

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sims are usually based off the same (or close to) weights as either Robot or EJ.

I'm not sure which sims you are referring to but Simulationcraft will certainly calculate your own personal stat weights (which vary considerably from the ilvl 509 weights mentioned on Elitist Jerks' site when you've not got BiS gear). Which simulations blindly use such published weights?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure which sims you are referring to but Simulationcraft will certainly calculate your own personal stat weights (which vary considerably from the ilvl 509 weights mentioned on Elitist Jerks' site when you've not got BiS gear). Which simulations blindly use such published weights?

I don't know, but Ask Mr Robot's optimization certainly calculates weights based on the current character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so that now Simcraft has been updated to remove the last bug, how are things simming out for DW, both stats and gems. Is there a sweet spot for haste for DW or does Mastery rule at all levels? I'm getting odd results and this could all be because the sim software is new to me. My reforge/gem results are telling me to toss out my 4000 haste for 2900 haste and put everything into str gems and reforge for mastery? My ilevel is 482 and i've been running either 25k or 50k iterations. I would really like to get a short "to-do" list like go to X and run this and then do this ... I've seen a lot of 2H conversation in this forum, time for DW's to speak up. Thank you much and happy holidays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By RoseyNZ
      Hi All, 
      I am part of a raiding guild in Aus/NZ & we have quite a few DPS.  Due to mythic being restricted to 20 people, i'm finding myself on the bench.  Now I know it's early on, but we've cleared Heroic and I need to pick up my DPS.  So I come to you guys for some help.

      I feel that due to the movement requirements of Mythic encounters, i'm quite hindered with steady main target dps.  I can squeeze good aoe burst dps, but find that after my first opening sequence, my numbers just drop off too rapidly.

      I'm using (I believe) the suggested rotation listed here on icyveins.  

      Here is a link to our Heroic Clear from the 28th Sept, our first run after the Class changes.
      Talamia Elemental Shaman - Heroic Emerald Nightmare (warcraftlogs.com)
      Here is my Armory link.
      Talamia - Elemental Shaman - I have haste gems, in order to see if casting quicker helped.  As a JC, i don't mind having to replace them.

      I found when using the compare facility on warcraftlogs.com - my mastery is way high  (3k)  - with Versatility (900) and Haste (2.8k) being much lower, but crit is around the right place (11.6k).

      Most of the drops i've gotten, have mastery on it.  Very little has Crit & Versatility, which seem like the preferred states.
       
      I run dungeons with little problems, unless there are movement fights, but even then, they are shorter and much easier to compensate with, especially with a good healer / tank.

       
    • By mischievous
      Cleared Heroic and Normal Emerald Nightmare in the first week of it's release.
      Classes Needed:
      Discipline Priest that can switch to Holy when needed  Rogue Always looking for exceptional DPS of any class.

      About Us: 
      We are a guild, made up of former members of <Red Shift> and <Casually Addicted>, on Bleeding Hollow (PvP Server on a Chicago Datacenter) that have a common goal and will do what is necessary to achieve it. We are Shifty Casuals.
      We are a group of professional adults, who believe success in raiding doesn't correlate to number in days/hours you spend raiding. We are starting a fresh page within our guild history and sticking to a 3 day a week raid schedule.
      We don't tolerate elitism, bigotry, misogyny or any of the like. We enjoy our calm, adult environment and have no qualms with protecting it.
      We do loot council which is fair and distributes loot for the progression of the raid as a whole and not an individual player. No favoritism, no loot drama.
      We have our sights set on top 100 US for Legion and are looking for like-minded individuals to join our ranks.

      Raid Days and Times (All times in EST as that is our server time):
      · Tuesday 8:45pm-11:45pm
      · Wednesday 8:45pm-11:45pm
      · Thursday 8:45pm-11:45pm

      Who We Want:
      Since we are reforming and building for the expansion now is a great time to get in on the ground floor and clear content with us, while prepping for the new expansion. These are some key traits that we are looking for:
      · Someone who understands that 3 nights a week raiding means that you need to bring your A-game each and every night. Attendance is expected to be near 100%. By committing to raid, you are committing yourself to our raiding schedule.
      · The ability to perform under pressure. We only recruit impressive players, and spots are always competitive.
      · Extensive class knowledge of your class. (IE: Alpha/beta testing, keeping up with theorycrafting, properly gemmed/enchanted, always be up to date on the intricacies of your class (not solely your spec(s)) and on the utility of the entire raid group.)
      · A computer that can handle 20-30 man raiding and the ability to communicate via VOIP when needed. You must have a working headset and mic, and you must be prepared to use them. We will not read chat during boss fights. Inability to give a vocal response will not be tolerated as it directly hinders progression.
      · Tough skin. We're always looking to improve ourselves as should you. Constructive criticism is encouraged, but flaming and insulting is not tolerated whatsoever.

      If you have what it takes to be a part of this great team and community, feel free to apply at our website http://shiftycasuals.wowlaunch.com/.  If you have questions about the application process, contact any of the officers for additional information.

      Contacts:
      Mischievous - Officer - giggles#1351
      Esurient - Co-GM - starvingsun#1436
      Amisti - Officer - amisti#1417
    • By DenisR
      <the password is mattress> on Korgath (US) Alliance is looking to recruit some additional members to fill out our raid roster for Legion.

      We are a friendly guild that is looking to do some more casual raiding (6 hrs/wk). However, we do fully expect that content will be taken seriously. If you are new to raiding or are looking for something a little bit more relaxed, we are the guild for you.
      Our raid times are Tuesday and Thursday, 8 - 12pm Central (Server) time. Mythic+ content will take place at another time.
      We are currently full on tanks and healers. Just looking for DPS. We are particularly interested in the following:
      - Shadow Priest
      - Demonology Warlock
      - Arms Warrior
      - Unholy Deathknight
      Not interested in raiding?  We are still interested in having you join us. We are more than happy to have you join Mythic+ content, or even just to have a social group to enjoy the game with.
      You can contact me here or via my BattleTag, Denis#1247 or the raid leader, Haidian#1613.
    • By Bane
      Hi all,
      So I'm returning to WoW after taking about a year off and am looking for a little assistance with my Outlaw Rogue because I am apparently missing something.
      I've followed IV's Outlaw Rogue Guide as closely as I could. Here's a breakdown of what I'm running with:
      Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackrock/Bàné/simple Warcraft Logs (H Ursoc for example): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D8Txfm7FbNwcR1VY/#type=damage-done&source=23 My rotation is (as far as I can tell) right from the Guide M4D to RTB AB &  CotDB simultaneously when I can Guildie for comparison (with lower ilvl): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D8Txfm7FbNwcR1VY/#type=damage-done&source=32 So I'm not currently running Ghostly Strike, which I am considering changing. But overall I feel  like sometimes I'm waiting for the "perfect" moment to cast AB/CotDB, so as not to waste any time on it. Also, my when I RTB, I will always typically get 1 buff and I feel like I am wasting CPs  rerolling two, three or four times.
      Anyway.. I'm geared well, and I've got my weapons pretty high - I feel like I am underachieving and looking for any assistance this community can lend.
      Thanks!
    • By Kalyl
      Did the Havoc spec changed the priority stats?
      Last week i was around 200-205k DPS, going down to 184-188k DPS with 846 ILVL. 40% crit.
      Suddenly, this week i cant go further 160K DPS... my fellow DH DPS its lower crit than me, same build. The only difference i can see its the mastery stats, which he has higher.
      The hotfix changed the stats priority for us?