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Ryusei

Doing ~17k in HC Highmaul in sub. spec, what to do?

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Hey there,

 

yesterday was my first raiding day in WoD. Me and my guild did heroic Highmaul. Killed 5 bosses, and i was last one on the damage done on every single boss with about 17k dps across the board. I was really dissappointed to say at least, cuz i rerolled rogue specifically for WoD, was prepairing, practicing, etc. 

 Yes, my guildies had like 2 weeks of raiding without me and they all have like 650 ilevel right now, but i still feel useless. Aaand im afraind to lose my raiding spot. 

 So, could you guys give me some tips? I mean, if im pulling less than 20k dps in a raid, than, obviously, im doing something wrong, right?

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/argent-dawn/Ryuseilol/simple

Here's a link to my armory. 

Some facts: 639 ilevel, sub spec.

Generally using icy-veins sub guide. 

Using shadowcraft, to see what items will increase my theoretical dps

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q6PYc7kWyTvrg8aM

Here's a warcraftlogs link. The only mistake i clearly see is that i didnt cleave\multidot twin ogrons. 

 

Any thoughts? 

Edited by Ryusei

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Sup. First off i don't play sub myself, i use assas/combat. 

 

But what i have seen comparing from logs, that others are using FoK as combat points generator on twin ogrons then possible , while they are together ( same energy cost 35 as backstab awards 2 combo points, does a bit less damage tho, but you have plenty of combo points.Others as well uses MfD but not sure you would need to manage CP's more intensively. 

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Hi,

 

I play sub as a main spec, but I do tend to play as Assa for Twins.  However, I'm familiar with the fight as Sub, and here's some things that stand out to me specifically for that fight.  You have a great comparison rogue right in your raid with you!

 

1. Compare your rupture uptime.  The other rogue has about 97% uptime, and that is easy to get even higher than that on Twins, because of the multi-rupture potential.  Your 90% is def. not bad, but maximizing that on both bosses has huge gains.  I normally am with the melee group on Pol, (the shield charge one, not the whirlwind one), and so what I do to increase uptime on rupture:  Right after he takes off to shield charge someone, I sprint/shadowstep/rocketboots over to Phemos, and stick a rupture on him.  (Be careful to not get caught in whirlwind!  If you do, evasion works on that)  Usually, they will be tanked very close together, so it's not too difficult to tab target the other, and throw a rupture and hemo on it.

 

2. Find Weakness uptime:  your other rogue was at about 44%, to your 30%.  They got 6 Vanishes and 6 shadowdances in to your 5/5, so that's something else to work on.  Open with ambush, start your rotation, with snd/rupture etc, and as the first starts to fall off, start your first dance.  As that last FW ends, vanish into ambush, then immediately prep!  this can give you an additional prep before the end of the fight.  After that FW starts to end, vanish/ambush etc. Keeping that FW up as much as possible will definitely help.  

 

3. Fan of Knives use:  As the poster before me said, when they are close enough to hit both, FoK is a better combo builder than BS.  Guaranteed 2 CP, and that allows more finishers. Also makes keeping up rupture a breeze.

 

Let me know if you have any questions or want to discuss anything further.  Good luck!  Also, let me know if you want me to look at any of the other fights. smile.png

 

Quick edit:  I should mention, I'm actually right at 639 ilvl myself, and I get in the neighborhood of 18.5k- 19.5k as sub on this boss, so you're not far off.  

Edited by Energetic

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MfD is a possibility to use, but I think the previous two posters hit the nail on the head.

 

1) Rupture Uptime: Could use some work. 90% isn't awful, but it really needs to be better. Rupture is your hardest hitting skill for the energy and cp spent on it, and it's really important to constantly have it up

 

2) Two target dps: You should be keeping poisons and bleeds up on both Phemos and Pol, using FoK as your cp builder, and trying to save your Evis casts for the times you can get FW up on one of the two. Keep yourself at 7-8 cp as much as you can for this.

 

3) Cooldowns: You should get WeakAuras or something similar to help you track your cooldown timers; your Shadow Dance use is very sporadic, with a whole 41 seconds delay with Dance being useable and you actually casting it. This got better as the fight went on, but the only time where it even gets close is on your 5th cast where its delayed by 3 seconds. If you shrink the time between your casts, you could have fit 1, maybe 2, more Dances in

 

A similar thing can be said about your Vanish use; although it's better than your Dances, you could still have fit in another one if you tighten up the timing a little

 

4) Defensive skills: While these don't actually increase dps, being able to run through Fire or something similar because of CoS is a great benefit to a Rogue - I don't see you casting a single defensive skill (Feint, CoS, etc) through that entire fight, which is putting more strain on your healers

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Thanks for your replies guys!

Big thanks for Twins tips, ill make sure to use them on the next reset. But could u check my other fights too? Any tips on how to increase my dps on Butcher, brackenspore?

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Sure!

 

Butcher:

 

Butcher is pretty much pure single target with very little downtime since you can Shadowstep back to him before you even get knocked all the way back. You should have pretty much flawless damage on this fight

  1. SnD uptime is really low - 86%
  2. Rupture and Hemo uptime is alright but not perfect - 93% and 91%
  3. Cooldown use is better but not quite perfect
  4. Good energy pooling before your first Shadow Dance, but needs improvement for your other ones
  5. Only used Preparation once. It's 2 free cp don't ignore it

I suggest you take a look at the Proper Use of Shadow Dance thread here: http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/7987-how-to-properly-use-shadow-dance/

 

 

Brackenspore:

 

Bracken is kind of an interesting one - you need to be very adaptable here. Sometimes it's pure single target with no downtime, very much like Butcher, but other times you have a second target that will remain up for a fairly decent amount of time. You need to be really on your toes, and change to a multi-target rotation whenever possible. Toss out FoK casts whenever it will hit a second target, whether it ends up being a Shroom or Add.  Whenever the add is up you should be focused on it, only swapping back to Boss to apply Rup / Hemo

 

I won't go into details here since it's pretty much the same tips I've given for the other fights. 

 

I really think you need to get WeakAuras, and read that Shadow Dance post. I have a UI Tread and the Shadow Dance thread stickied on the forum, which should get you started with this stuff

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Probably a silly question, but how many mobs should there be before I stop using Shadow Dance? I get the feeling I should be using it no matter what, but the icy veins guide doesn't include it in the aoe rotation. I'm guessing it's worth it even just to ambush each mob once for the find weaknesses debuff.

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Sure!

 

Butcher:

 

Butcher is pretty much pure single target with very little downtime since you can Shadowstep back to him before you even get knocked all the way back. You should have pretty much flawless damage on this fight

  1. SnD uptime is really low - 86%
  2. Rupture and Hemo uptime is alright but not perfect - 93% and 91%
  3. Cooldown use is better but not quite perfect
  4. Good energy pooling before your first Shadow Dance, but needs improvement for your other ones
  5. Only used Preparation once. It's 2 free cp don't ignore it

I suggest you take a look at the Proper Use of Shadow Dance thread here: http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/7987-how-to-properly-use-shadow-dance/

 

 

Brackenspore:

 

Bracken is kind of an interesting one - you need to be very adaptable here. Sometimes it's pure single target with no downtime, very much like Butcher, but other times you have a second target that will remain up for a fairly decent amount of time. You need to be really on your toes, and change to a multi-target rotation whenever possible. Toss out FoK casts whenever it will hit a second target, whether it ends up being a Shroom or Add.  Whenever the add is up you should be focused on it, only swapping back to Boss to apply Rup / Hemo

 

I won't go into details here since it's pretty much the same tips I've given for the other fights. 

 

I really think you need to get WeakAuras, and read that Shadow Dance post. I have a UI Tread and the Shadow Dance thread stickied on the forum, which should get you started with this stuff

 

I think you should post those tips on the Highmaul raiding thread.

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I did.. or at least I think I did. I'm in the middle of installing my new ssd and posting from my phone atm, so I'll look at doing it this evening once I have a computer again

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Only used Preparation once. It's 2 free cp don't ignore it

 

I'm very new to playing a rogue, so please forgive me if this should be obvious, but did you mean to say Premeditation?

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I'm very new to playing a rogue, so please forgive me if this should be obvious, but did you mean to say Premeditation?

 

No, I think it's Preparation really. Preparation gives you a Vanish, and with Shadow Focus that's a "free" (15 Energy) Ambush that generates 2 CPs. And yeah, you got Premeditation too, those are another 2 free CPs.

 

Only if he miswrote.

Edited by lipsinch
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Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation.

 

Better if he comes out and explain what he meant. Perhaps I understood wrong too.

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No I actually meant spell_shadow_possession.jpgPremeditation

 

You should be using it at the start of the fight and periodically throughout, since it literally is 2 free cp

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