Sydhart

So disappointed when playing my rogue now

16 posts in this topic

Started in vanilla and played through WoLK.  Loved playing a rogue.  Did lots of high end raiding with my rogue and lots of PvP to the extent I had full Gladiator gear of the most current season (5?) and was usually in top 3 in dps in raids.  

 

Restarted playing again with some friends towards the end of MoP.  Didn't really get to experience any high end raiding besides doing a few flex raids in SOO which were about as challenging as, well, they weren't challenging.  Did PvP but didn't bother with arena as I knew that by level 100 that arena gear I might accumulate would be completely obsolete.  

 

Now, at level 100, playing sublety spec, I'm really struggling to enjoy the game. Every week I struggle to cap my conquest points as every competitive team I try to join would rather have a DK, Gladiator, Ret Paladin or Feral Druid for mdps or don't want a mdps at all and want ranged.  Hell, my hemo used to be a decent attack if I couldn't backstab but on a warrior or deathknight, it's doing like 240 damage. Is this just my imagination or are other rogues struggling in Arena?

 

In battlegrounds/open pvp, there are the random encounters that I know I'm playing against a person that is not an experience PvP player but almost every class seems to be able to do more dps/heal over me or cc/distance themselves enough that they have time for friends to arrive.

 

In the raids I'm in, on Kargath and Butcher I can usually sustain around 14k or 15k dps. I'm usually the highest rogue dps but that is still putting me only midways and usually at the low end on the dps standings.  The only classes typically below me have been warlocks and shamans.  I'm sitting around 640 ilevel but when taking a look at some of the top dps people, I'd say a majority of them are still in mostly heroic gear around 630.  

 

I also feel like just in order to have marginally good dps, I have to micromanage a shit ton more than other higher dps classes.  What happened with us in this overhaul where they wanted to simplify the classes?  Back in vanilla, I basically just had to know the fights and where I needed to be and when and make sure I had slice and dice going and I was positioned behind my target enough for backstab. Now with most fights having multiple mobs and having to switch to every single mob and make sure I have poison applied and rupture on them, it's almost unmanageable sometimes. I want to relax a little and play a game but in order to sustain good dps so I don't get kicked my raids, I have to work harder than I do in real life.

 

My gear is here.

https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/player/us/illidan/dimira

 

I'm using weakauras with Carrn's script and trying to use the rotation suggested in the guide here.  This might just be all my inability to adapt to the changes but I'd like to hear others feedback on whether you think the rogue is good right now in comparison to other classes or something is broken.  

 

 

 

Edited by Sydhart

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In doing some more reading it sounds like sublety is one of the hardest dps specs to play and there is little room for error when trying to put forth good dps numbers?  Are the other specs, assassination or combat, easier to play? Which spec, raiding-wise, is the best dps wise?

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Assassination shows noticeably less DPS, although not to the point that it's totally irrelevant as a spec. It's as simple as taking off velcro shoes though, so if you really want something easy to play then that's your spec. You'll get bored though imo - having 3 buttons to smash over and over again gets REALLY tiresome

 

Combat is also simple, although it has some slight nuances which make it a little more interesting than the pure button mash that it seems to be at first. 

 

If you can post some Logs of you playing Sub, I can help you look through them and find where you might be going wrong. As of right now though, I can only suggest that you switch Glyph of Feint over and replace it with Glyph of Energy. The extra energy to pool up will help you a lot.

 

Oh, and without Logs to help you with... Give the How to Properly Use Shadow Dance post a read. It goes into quite a bit of detail about one of the most difficult things to do with the Sub rotation

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As for dps in raids it shouldnt be a problem, im always topping the meters myself, even tho im stuck on 630 ilvl weapons with the monks having 655. As for the PvP aspect tho, i feel you. Death knights of any spec seem to self heal for more dmg than i can put out, aswell as doing atleast trice my dmg. The dmg part seems to be for most melee classes, rogues do just seem increadibly weak atm im PvP

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Combat is excelling for PvP atm. 8s stun, plus Killing Spree making you immune to cc during your burst is really quite nice

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Immune, Parry, Invis or Evasion kills Killing Spree. Obviously that you'll setup for it, but Sub still king on PvP. If you wanna ladder, go Sub.

 

Nonetheless, it's hard to be a Rogue among those hybrid gods classes. Paladin is plainly retarded (I'm rolling one ATM with my girlfriend) due to how much shit you can avoid with hands and bubbles and heals and what not, Feral Druids are with an unreal damage (you can mitigate their burst, but it's unlikely to figure out exactly when and if you're not a dwarf, it's hard to jump off),and Boomkins... pls.

 

Anyway, we are in a good spot. Thing is that everyone else is overtuned. They still tinkering and messing with people, so let's see what comes on 6.1.

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Dunno, I'm playing between 1800-2k and most rogues that I see are combat. That's not to say that Sub and Asn aren't viable, but a lot of high mmr rogues are playing combat

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I might not be the best PvPer, but it's getting really frustrating to play BGs lately. I'm not fully PvP geared, but seems like I have a target painted @ my head, and I get insta-killed. Yesterday I got globalled by 2 ferals and 2 fury wars. Literally died in a global.

 

Plus that clusterf**k that is Ashran, seems impossible to do something without dying without taking collateral (if not fatal) damage.

 

Or then kicking us off stealth, which leads to... y'know. Instagib.

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That's accurate. Rogues are hard done by in PvP, but if you play a team based around cc and locking down targets then it isn't SO bad. 

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You can't setup a team with a lot of random people. =P

 

ITT: Barrage NEEDS a nerf.

Edited by lipsinch

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The nature of rogue play is not conducive to high-pop BG's and world PvP. While we have decent mitigation, our leather armor means we take damage faster. Since we take damage faster, we are target #1 for the average opponent. One on one we've got a tremendous number of tools and really shine in a long engagement, but that just doesn't happen in BG's.

 

There are ways to shine in mass battle, but we can't be the druids or plate wearers that just bowl their way into the crowd and get at least two kills for every death.

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So I rolled a DK this weekend. Went Frost and did some PvP. Could literally wipe the mat using 4-5 buttons with everything except Feral Druid and Retro Paladin.  Those 2 I had to actually use HALF a brain. Keep in mind I had full Heirloom gear with MoP chants on em but it was ridiculous how easy it was.  

 

Also spec'd Blood and tanked some dungeons.  Took me all of one minute to figure out I could press 3 buttons to tank everything. I was able to tank dungeons while I caught up on all the episodes of Flash I had DVR'd. I topped DPS charts in every single instance with typically doing around 40-50% of the damage.

 

At level 70 now and don't plan on stopping. Love my rogue and not giving up on Dimira (been playing her since vanilla) but until things change I'll probably be playing my DK more than rogue.  So sad...

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That's the feeling I'm having with my Paladin. My realm is PvP and I'm leveling with my girlfriend (a heal Priest, 'cause reasons), and I have this -silly- tendency of ganking people (that she keeps lecturing me lol). Paladin currently is SO faceroll it's not even funny (actually it is, and turns out I've even made a friend out of a horde guy I kept raiding). I wanna see once I hit 100 with this.

 

Back to Rogue, how you guys are managing to farm rep for PvP gear given the stupidity of Ashran? My server is dead to pickpocket people, so I'm putting that off.

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Back to Rogue, how you guys are managing to farm rep for PvP gear given the stupidity of Ashran? My server is dead to pickpocket people, so I'm putting that off.

 

Trying to farm rep in Ashran and max my conquest points every week is SO painful.  Envision having a colonoscopy every week where you're walking funny for the next few days. That's kind of what I feel like after Arena/Ashran. Some of you might enjoy that (you masochistic sickos), but to me that's not fun. I quit playing WoW shortly after Season 5 of arena but it was never that painful.   

 

I have yet to find a really good combination for Arena with my rogue. The best I've found so far was a CC/burst dps team of Rogue/Hunter or Rogue/Boomkin. I think my highest rating to date is around 1500 but no one pushing 2K+ wants a rogue when I'm using the LFG tool. As a matter of fact, I've never seen anyone looking in the premade arena teams list mention rogue in 2's or 3's.    

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Trying to farm rep in Ashran and max my conquest points every week is SO painful.  Envision having a colonoscopy every week where you're walking funny for the next few days. That's kind of what I feel like after Arena/Ashran. Some of you might enjoy that (you masochistic sickos), but to me that's not fun. I quit playing WoW shortly after Season 5 of arena but it was never that painful.   

 

I have yet to find a really good combination for Arena with my rogue. The best I've found so far was a CC/burst dps team of Rogue/Hunter or Rogue/Boomkin. I think my highest rating to date is around 1500 but no one pushing 2K+ wants a rogue when I'm using the LFG tool. As a matter of fact, I've never seen anyone looking in the premade arena teams list mention rogue in 2's or 3's.    

I'm playing Rogue just fine around the 2k mark. Combat is great, the other specs are more mediocre. 8 second stun from Kidney shot is absurd, and avoiding all cc while in Killing Spree is pretty amazing. 

 

RLS (Rogue Lock Shaman) is working pretty well, but I think RPD (Rogue Priest Druid) is more effective. I suggest playing the latter comp with a Disc rather than Resto, but either way works. Rogue DK Priest is also really strong at the moment, due to the absurdity of DKs. Keep in mind that playing with a DK means you're going to be the one getting trained on, so if you don't like fighting to survive then you're out of luck.

 

tbh though any comp can be played to about 1700, so long as your coordination is good. This goes even more so if you happen to have a DK on your team

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Funny that Mut were so strong prepatch, now Combat seems to have more vision than it. Also, Cbt/Sub seems to be a more versatile combination than Mut in the mix, so I might change back to it (goodbye hand health)...

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