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Brady84

Is Wild Growth Broken?

13 posts in this topic

I did a lot of theorycrafting/testing on whether WG had built in breakpoints [and pretty much proved to myself that moving between minimal % increase had a much greater increase on output] But now I seem to have another "Issue" that blows that and pretty much all other stat weights out of the water & has just caused further confusion to the situation so here I am asking for help

 

Based on my Armory

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/magtheridon/Homsil/advanced

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/optimize/eu/magtheridon/homsil

 

Replacing the equipped 636WF MH http://www.wowhead.com/item=119181&bonus=499:524 for the 630 http://www.wowhead.com/item=110050&bonus=524

 

[- 6.6DPS / -4 INT / - 7 Stamina / - 46 Versatility / - 56 Spell Power] For [+1 Mastery / +36 Haste]

 

I assumed that the 1 mastery was negligable and that the int/spell power increase more than make up for the loss of haste (based on stat weights int =2 sp =1.8 haste/mastery =1 , versatility =0.7]

 

-4 int = -8

-56 sp = -100.8

-46 vs = -36.8

+1 mastery =1

+36 haste = 36

 

Total Downgrade of ~ 108.6 Points [unsure of % healing this is]

 

With MOTW/Harmony this appears to be true for every spell bar 1

 

HT = 25171 --> 24787 (-1.53%)

RG = 15227/3828 --> 14997/3768 (-1.51% / -1.57%)

REJ(tooltip) = 27909 --> 27482 (-1.53%)

REJ(actual) = 29561 --> 29198 (-1.23%)

3987x7+1652 Partial --> 3926x7+1716 Partial

 

 

& Heres where it gets confusing

 

WG(tooltip) = 19586 --> 22040 (+12.63%)

WG(actual) = 21824 --> 22042 (+1%)

 

6.93% (19586 tooltip) [636]
 
3358
3171
2985
2798
2611
2425
2238
2238
 
21824

 

7.31% (22040 tooltip) [630]

 
3306
3148
2991
2834
2676
2520
2362
2205
 
22042

 

So The Rejuv tooltip doesnt include any partial ticks & the WG tooltip might as well say any old crap, Using my on-use haste trinket [which takes me over the breakpoint at 14.3%]

 

21.77% Haste (tooltip 25182) [636]
 
3358
3218
3078
2937
2798
2658
2518
2378
2238
 
25181
 
22.14% Haste (tooltip 24798) [630]
 
3307
3168
3031
2893
2756
2617
2480
2342
2204
 
24798

 

 

WG(tooltip) = 25182 --> 24798 (-1.52%)

WG(actual) = 25181 --> 24798 (-1.52%)

 

Pretty much the same % decrease as above, So what causes this? is it because I'm under the Breakpoint for WG[And Haste > everything upto that point], or is there a much more obvious explanation that I seem to be missing

 

Technically I can re-enchant my gear to hit the BP and use the buffs from PG to test it, But its wasted gold If its easily explained

Edited by Brady84

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There are no breakpoints anymore.

 

No matter what your haste level is, you will always benefit from the amount of haste that your character currently has.  The tooltips won't reflect the correct amount of healing/damage that a hot/dot will incur because if you are not exactly on that extra tick, you will receive partial credit as the hot/dot expires.

 

 

*Forgive me if I misunderstood your question.

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No matter what your haste level is, you will always benefit from the amount of haste that your character currently has

 

But the numbers above say differently so my question is why?, swapping the 636 weapon for 630 weapon

 [- 6.6DPS / -4 INT / - 7 Stamina / - 46 Versatility / - 56 Spell Power] For [+1 Mastery / +36 Haste]

 

6.93% --> 7.31% Haste (1% increase in healing with WG) / (~1.5% drop with ALL other spell)

21.77% --> 22.14% (1.53% drop in healing with WG) / (~1.5% drop with ALL other spells)

 

so a swing in ~2.5% output from WG for the same change in 0.4% haste so [As far as WG is concerned only]  if it scales it doesnt scale in a linear fashion [ie. haste is worth more below x amount than it is above x amount] or the relative value of haste compared to int/sp/mastery must change at some point or both examples would give the same % change 

 

There is also a point where you get 1 or 2 extra ticks on WG [and your partial ticks are worth the same regardless of haste levels] but thats another discussion

Edited by Brady84

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So what exactly is your question then?

 

What I'm reading your scenario as:

You are swapping out a weapon that is giving you more haste at the cost of sacrificing intellect, spell power and versatility.  The tooltip shows that you are supposed to gain healing from WG, but when you cast it you actually do not.

 

 

You show that when you are using an on-use haste trinket that pushes you to the next tick that you are seeing a larger percentage increase from WG.

 

 

My simplistic answer:

You aren't looking at a good comparison scenario.  Just like in any science project, if you would like to look at the influence of 1 variable, you need to only change 1 thing at a time.  Here, instead of just increasing the amount of haste that your character has, you have decreased 3 other items. 

What this proves is that haste is not the only influence on the output of WG.

 

To me, this is all you can take out of your scenario.

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Wild growth DOES have breakpoints. I don't know if its a bug or what (more than likely is a bug), but its been known since WoD was released at least.

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Wild growth DOES have breakpoints. I don't know if its a bug or what (more than likely is a bug), but its been known since WoD was released at least.

Going past a certain point haste value creates an extra tick for the hot.  That is correct.  However, I would try to steer clear of calling them breakpoints as you will continue to collect the partial tick if you aren't exactly on that number.

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Going past a certain point haste value creates an extra tick for the hot.  That is correct.  However, I would try to steer clear of calling them breakpoints as you will continue to collect the partial tick if you aren't exactly on that number.

 

Then its even more bugged than I thought.

How do I always miss those? sad.png

What are the breakpoints?

The first one is at 900 according to MMO champion. Unsure about others.

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So what exactly is your question then?

 

What I'm reading your scenario as:

You are swapping out a weapon that is giving you more haste at the cost of sacrificing intellect, spell power and versatility.  The tooltip shows that you are supposed to gain healing from WG, but when you cast it you actually do not.

 

My simplistic answer:

You aren't looking at a good comparison scenario.  Just like in any science project, if you would like to look at the influence of 1 variable, you need to only change 1 thing at a time.  Here, instead of just increasing the amount of haste that your character has, you have decreased 3 other items. 

What this proves is that haste is not the only influence on the output of WG.

 

To me, this is all you can take out of your scenario.

 

1/ I'm showing the the stat weights are wrong (or different for WG)  [because its 100 "points" lower as an item], but for WG it increases healing by 1%  [even though Rejuv & the HOT From Regrowth are both reduced by 1.5%] Since they all scale with haste it cannot be linear or they would all change by ~ the same amount (and I ignored tooltips and used in-game values including partial ticks)

 

2/ Or I showed that at lower haste levels for WG, 36 Haste & 1 Mastery has more stat value than 4 INT, 56 SP & 46 Vers which goes against every "guide" / stat weight i've ever seen or read [and I never went over any BP as I still had the same amount of ticks]

 

3/ I Showed that keeping all stats constant & only changing 1 variable [Haste] did not show a linear increase [although this could be caused by mastery so I will need to retest without any buffs]

 

636 Weapon 6.93% + on-use haste ->21.77% haste was an increase of 15.38% output 

630 Weapon 7.31% + on-use haste -> 22.14% haste was an increase of 12.5% output

 

 

3/ I agree its not the best scenario for comparison, which is why i was asking if i was missing something obvious [i.e how does WG healing increase but every other HOT reduces] and at higher haste levels why does it no longer increase

 

4/ The Breakpoints are 0 (7 ticks)Buffed 0.01% (8 ticks) / 14.3% (9 ticks) / 28.58% (10 ticks)and another that you cannot reach because theirs not enough ilvl/gear [although technically if you have a constant 10 ticks then TW/BL will give you 11)

 

I posted numbers somewhere else regarding the BP [and that after the BP Haste does not effect WG at all 0.03% increase per 1% haste], But i'm at a point where I should be able to re-enchant gear & do a much easier comparison from within PG's

Edited by Brady84

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Gonna sound crazy here but despite thinking there are Breakpoints IMO as the guy above stated there are points inbetween where you suddenly gain increase in healing as well

 

Regardless of what gear I use [swapping weapons, using no weapons at all, swapping static int for static int/haste] Theres a point at low haste levels where your "ticks" change, Since i dont have the patience to figure it out [its between 6.93% and 7.31%] I'll assume its 1/2 way between the breakpoint and call it 7.15%

 

Below this amount your final 2 ticks are exactly the same [ie your 8th tick is 100% of your 7th ticks]

Above this amount your final 2 ticks are different [your final tick is lower than your 7th, but ticks 3-7 are increased so OVERALL your healing increases [even when i dropped 67 INT]

 

Which pretty much explains my original question in the OP [and explains how using a vastly superior weapon caused a drop in healing from WG

 

EDIT: Theres no 1/4 BP or w/e, but if it scales at 7.15% it makes choosing a BP to soft-cap haste much easier [900 unbuffed haste, until 670 ilvl+ when you can reach a buffed 21.25%]

 

TLDR: IMO If you cant make a full 7.15/14.3/21.45/28.6% Haste then Mastery is a better stat

Edited by Brady84

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I wrote out something to counter what you said about the values, but then as I typed it it sounded silly and decided you were right.  Even though the rest of our spells benefit from haste equally, having wild growth not follow the same rules does make haste less desirable as a whole. (especially, the more you use wild growth, the less value that extra haste has)

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TLDR: IMO If you cant make a full 7.15/14.3/21.45/28.6% Haste then Mastery is a better stat

 

 

Do you have exact values (buffed and unbuffed) that the points occur? (along with the % next to it)

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Do you have exact values (buffed and unbuffed) that the points occur? (along with the % next to it)

 

I could probably work it out, I'll put ~ as i'm not 100% sure might actually be slightly lower but without having more gear its difficult to get certain numbers

 

according to PG's Haste Raid buff gives you 5.45% Haste

 

[7 Ticks-Buffed] 7.15%  [170]

[8 Ticks] 14.3% buffed [Everybody says 900, math says its 885 but i've not tested] I'm sitting on 903 /14.48% & thats over it

[8 Ticks-Buffed] 21.45% [1600]

[9 Ticks] 28.6%  [2315]

[9 Ticks-Buffed] 35.75% [3030] <-- Think this is actually impossible to reach even with WF/Socket 701 Gear

[10 Ticks] ~42.9% [3745]

[10 Ticks-Buffed] ~50.05% [4460]

[11 Ticks] ~57.2% [5175]

[11 Ticks-Buffed] 64.35% [5890] <-- or 32.85% [2740] + Timewarp]

 

Unbuffed value is just your % x10 as 100 haste gives you 1%

 

TW Assuming 30% + 5% bonus will give you 3150 rating

 

If your one of those Haste > Everything People... 2740 is the number you want [32.85%] means you will reach EVERY POSSIBLE Breakpoint, including 11-Buffed under TW [but you would also be Under GCD so its debatable whether the increase in WG output would even be worth it]

 

If Your Haste == Mastery .. Get over the highest % you can and dump the rest into Mastery until you have enough Haste to reach the next [remember you can enchant neck/back/ring for 275 (2.75%) and every gem socket is worth 50 (0.5%) 

 

If Your Mastery > Everything ... get unbuffed haste to 900(or 885 if thats the actual number) and dump everything else into Mastery

 

Also provided my math is correct Regardless of what BP You go for once you take haste above 1305 rating its worth less than Mastery [Or less than haste upto that point] because when you use TW you go under the GCD

Edited by Brady84

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