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FuzzyStatic

Hey with rotation

15 posts in this topic

My rogue is Limejelly. I'd post armory but I recently transfered and armory has not updated.

 

Here are some fights I did with my guild:

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8A1yzNnGXkbFBDCa#pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24damage%240%240.0.0.Any%24137455057.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%240&type=damage-done&source=4&fight=3

 

(I was part of wipe 1-3)

 

My ilvl is 636.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

EDIT: Meant title to say Help* with rotation

Edited by FuzzyStatic

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Hi FuzzyStatic,

 

Just a few things I noticed from your log of the third attempt and they hold true to a differing extent across all 3 attempts.

 

Your Hemo uptime is 55% - this should be as close to 100% as possible. 

Your SnD uptime is about 55% - again this should be as close to 100% as possible.

You seem to be missing 1 cast of shadow dance but this might be because you were wiping close to when you were meant to be casting it- something to look out for in any case.

Your find weakness uptime seems really low at 22% , and low on the other 2 fights too. This is a really big deal. Maybe someone more familiar with warcraftlogs can tell you exactly what's happening since I find it confusing to tell what happened when, but given that you're casting quite a few vanishes and using preparation, are you overlapping vanish find weakness uptime with shadow dance/opener find weakness uptime?

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Hemo is low because when the other add is out I do not tend to hemo much.  Should I hemo both targets, 1 target, or just ignore it for FoK, Rupture and Evis?
 

I might be overlapping parts of FW, I'll have to pay closer attention to that during raids.

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Ah ok that makes sense. I would apply hemo myself since the adds tend to survive for a while, will leave it up to someone else to say definitively. In terms of FW, for reference I looked at top sub rogue logs and the average seems to be about 40-50% uptime, so that'd be something to shoot for.

 

Edit:

Considering what you just said about the add, the low uptime might well be because it's not apllied to the add and the boss. I don't know if you'd be better off hitting the one you're not targeting during SD for extra rupture damage.

Edited by Frigate

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Bleeds are your highest single source of damage per cast - the only time I would avoid re-applying bleeds on the second target is when you have FW up / are in Dance

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Where do you see Find Weakness on Warcraft Logs.

 

EDIT: I found it. I had it at 35% on Butcher heroic, is that good or bad.

Edited by FuzzyStatic

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Pretty good. Take a look at the UI post that's stickied so you can grab a WeakAura for it

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Pretty good. Take a look at the UI post that's stickied so you can grab a WeakAura for it

I use RPB for Buffs and Debuffs (it's quick and easy to use). I use WeakAuras for my CDs.

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I mainly looked at fight 3.

 

Here's the (offensive, ignoring S&D) abilities you used in the beginning:

 

  • Ambush
  • Rupture
  • Ambush
  • Hemorrhage 

----5  second marker----

  • Hemorrhage
  • Hemorrhage
  • Hemorrhage

----10 second marker----

  • At 11.655 Shadow Dance (+reflection and racial etc)
  • Eviscerate
  • Ambush
  • Ambush

----15 second marker ----

  • Ambush
  • Eviscerate
  • Eviscerate
  • Ambush

----20 second marker ----

  • Ambush

21.645 Shadow Dance ends

 

 

 

First things first. Slice & Dice should really be 99% uptime, it's not just attack speed but also energy regen for Subtetly. incredibly important.

 

2nd. Open with cooldowns. I understand you want to wait 10ish seconds to maximize Find Weakness uptime but due to trinkets and potions (you should really consider using them) it is more beneficial to ignore Find Weakness and just pop cooldowns as soon as you're out of stealth / Subterfuge and ready to Rupture.

 

3rd: The usual Burst is Shadow Reflection > Rupture > Shadow Dance > Ambush/Evis spam

This also makes it a bit easier to open with burst, because you want to Rupture early.

 

4th I'm not sure what happened between the 5 and 10 second marker. It made me look at your 1st and 2nd fight and there you didn't use as many Hemorrhages so I guess (hope) it was a mistake. 

The opener on the first fight was perfect. Considering you didn't know to rupture after Shadow Reflection, and using everything early on. I think all abilities were pretty fine.

The 2nd fight was weird again. It looked like you accidentily pressed the cooldowns button with Shadow Dance going, but then you continued using Backstab instead of Ambush during the entire first Shadow Dance.

 

-----------

 

Now, opener-rotation aside, you can (should) use cooldowns more often.

First fight duration. 6:19: maximum Shadow Dances: 7, you: 5

2nd fight duration. 4:40: maximum Shadow Dances: 5, you: 3

3rd fight duration: 5:27: maximum Shadow Dances: 6, you 4

You miss out on around 18-20 seconds of Find Weakness per Shadow Dance + heavy Ambushes so a lot of damage is lost there.

 

 

 

 

What I suggest for you is:

  • Sit on a dummy a while and redo the opener until you're comfortable with it. We can no longer get combo points from pre-combat healing so it won't change your opener much in raids vs solo dummy.

Personally, I do

Premeditation > S&D > pull > Shadow Step > Ambush > Hemorrhage (glyphed) > Backstab > wait for 5 combo points from the raid (Honor amongst thieves) > Shadow Reflection (and trinkets/racials) > Rupture > Shadow Dance > Ambush/Evis spam.

 

BUT I don't use subterfuge but Shadow Focus so your opener will be different. Note Subterfuge with Vanish glyph will theoretically be better as long as this combo is bugged, I just find it easier with Shadow Focus.

And I don't claim this is the best even with Shadow Focus :P

 

  • If it may help you, you can throw Hemorrhage off your bars for a while so you can focus on the main things more. The damage increase of Hemo is low .. very low. Even the top parsed sub rogues have like 70% uptime or something. Far from 100%, because it's just not that important. It's good for Sanguinary veins (glyph) in case Rupture fell off. And in general it should not be used when Find Weakness is up.
  • Watch cooldowns better and stay calm. After the opener and Find Weakness, which is a bit hectic and much button pressing, **relax**. You can perfectly let your energy go up to 50% and more. It doesn't matter. It only starts to become a dps loss if you're at 100% energy.

In fact, as soon as you see Shadow Dance's cooldown get below 10 seconds. Intentionally stop pressing buttons. Unless you need slice&dice / rupture, but really, take it slow. You want to be high on energy for the upcoming Shadow Dance.

 

 

Good luck!

 

Wixey

Edited by wixey
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Only thing I have to add to what Wixey mentioned is to have a read through the Shadow Dance Use thread at the top of the forum. It gives a decently in-depth guideline to some things to watch out for when you're playing Sub, as it gets pretty complicated when compared to the other Rogue specs

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I'll have to make changes, somewhere on here it says to macro SD and SR together.

Edited by FuzzyStatic

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It does say that, and for a lot of players I recommend it cause the difference is very slim. However, getting the clone to copy Rupture and not wasting a gcd inside Dance is a DPS gain - much simpler for most people to use them together and not worry about it

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It does say that, and for a lot of players I recommend it cause the difference is very slim. However, getting the clone to copy Rupture and not wasting a gcd inside Dance is a DPS gain - much simpler for most people to use them together and not worry about it

Go big or go home.

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For Sub? Yes, any time you can hit more than 1 target you should be building with FoK.

 

Most of your damage comes from finishers, so it's better to have the more energy efficient cp generation than the slightly harder hitting BS.

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