TheWillrus

Looking to go from Avg. To 75%+

12 posts in this topic

Hello fellow assassins, Shrekøning Here!

 

I have played rogue(combat) for several years on and off again; the last time I had played was endgame Firelands and came back to check what all the rage was about WoD.  Like an addict I relapsed into playing again and our guild is looking to try out mythic next week and onward.  

 

Using Warcraftlogs, I have been keeping track of my dps and effective playing to try and get better but I seem to have hit a roadblock where I'm not sure on how to improve or if I am doing anything wrong at all.  

 

Here is my armory :

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/burning-blade/Shrek%C3%B8ning/simple

The enchantments I am using are the downgrade version of the ones I will be putting on, just have a lack of funds to get the really good enchants.

 

This is a log of the last attempt we had on Heroic Imperator:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rQC8TaKD7dqwxR1k/

We wiped 13~ times and every attempt had him on the brink of or pushing into final phase but wiped from too much damage.

 

The rotation I'm using is as follows
Opener:

Prepot+stealth at 1s to pull

Shadowstep+ambush

Revealing strike (RS)

Slice and Dice (SnD)

Spam Sinister Strike (SS) until Insight

Killing Spree (KS)

SS into Adrenaline Rush (AR)

Eviscerate somewhere at this point

 

Rotation:

Keeping RS up on the target

Recasting SnD with usually between 1-4s

Trying not to Evis while no insight is up

Refreshing SnD+RS before entering Deep Insight

Using KS once it's off CD and I dump my energy with SS

Adrenaline Rush off CD unless KS is about to pop

Vanish on CD only waiting if I'm about to enter next step of Insight

Evis at 5+ CP and usually staying in my Anticipation stacks (around 6-7 CP)

 

Now I'm not usually doing poorly on the meters but I don't know how to improve my play really from here.  The only thing I can think of would be my own decision making being the reason I am only average DPS and I'm not sure how to change that.  Any help is appreciated smile.png

 

TL;DR not performing to a standard I would like but follow the rotation as best I can, any tips and tricks would be nice.

 

PS: I would also like to include a pic of my UI in case anyone has any suggestions

 

http://gyazo.com/fbf93ca8d7b17d33fd4b5983cde1ec55

 

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I do have a Sub offspec, however I only just started learning how to play Sub and it is much more complicated than I expected. 

I doubt I will be going sub this tier, or at least until I can master the rotation/proc/timings on patchwerk fights.

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Your rotation seems pretty good. As far as small improvements to make, there's a couple things I noticed just from your last (and longest) pull:

  1. You used AR right before KS a couple times. The first time wasn't bad, since you got KS right as AR fell off, but the second time you cut off a few seconds. Seems like you know this, but figured I'd mention it anyways
  2. You had some downtime at the start of Lust - you missed almost 10 seconds of time attacking something, 8 of which were inside the Lust timer. Being able to maximise time on the boss during Lust will give you a huge improvement
  3. Lastly, your second Potion should always always be used on Lust

Other than that, a couple stylistic differences - I tend not to use Blade Flurry at all on that fight, cause the add doesn't last long and it isn't worth losing Energy regen during that time, Other than that I don't know what you're cleaving, unless for some reason you're on the little aberration things that spawn.

 

For Damage Taken, you're doing pretty well. I suggest running Elusiveness and taking advantage of Feint, cause that will help your healers out a lot. 

 

For random tidbits: make sure you're saving Step for Arc Nova and the Aberration dying, so you can get back to the boss instantly. I use it for the add and cloak as many of the Novas as I can - the ones I can't cloak, I Sprint

 

Like I said though, it seems like you know what you're doing fairly well

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Once again I'll preface my statement by saying that I've just noticed increases in my damage by doing certain things, but it might not be necesarilly *correct.*  Anyway, for your opener I would pop Sprint rather than using ShadowStep, otherwise it is pretty much spot on, just make sure you don't cast an Evisc before casting AR as you want the cooldown reduction.  Other generic things would be that you don't necesarilly have to wait until 1-4 seconds for SnD refresh, anything 8 and under you carry over.  Being mindful of RvS before DI is fine, but it is really one of the least of your worries.  Without actually doing a ton of simcrafting/theorycrafting it's probably damn near even damage-wise to cast it during DI, as the damage/energy ratio is close enough to SS, and by casting it during DI you're actually increasing the amount of time you'll be at insight since you don't have to delay moving into insight by casting RvS (note during lust when you're energy-capping it is certainly a dps loss).  I have a bit of a dissenting opinion about ever delaying AR, even if KS is almost up.  To me it depends on Insight level.  If AR is going to come up a couple seconds before KS and I'm not at DI, I will go ahead and pop AR and push myself into DI.  Just note that if you're doing this you want to save as many CPs as possible; 8 is probably ideal before casting KS as you'll want to SS as soon as KS is over once to dump energy.  You want to save your CD reduction finishers until after KS is on CD.  Also you can cast KS with a second or two left on AR as long as you're at no energy and you won't cap.

 

FIght specific things as I've been spending quite a bit of time on Imperator:

 

Imperator always seems to transition from Phase 1 to Phase 2 about the time your 2nd KS and 2nd DI are coming up.  You absolutely do not want to enter DI as he's transitioning, it's a terrible dps loss.  It is also a large dps gain to make sure you have KS for when he's in the air, as otherwise you're going to be using Throw during that time.  The best strategy I've found (depending on groups DPS it varies, as great DPS groups will push him before you can actually get KS off cooldown) is to delay DI if I'm close, staying 1 SS away.  If you can sprint over to the boss in time to get off another cast use RvS and jump to hit him until you cannot.  Then cast Shadow Step when he's mid-air to get your last SS to drop over into DI and cast KS afterward.  This gets you a DI'd KS when otherwise you would be casting throw.  You should land just barely before the boss and can then continue with the rest of your rotation during DI.

 

Not that my opinion matters more than Carrn's, but I always use Blade Flurry when switching to the add.  The add should be within range of Imperator and the dps increase from the cleave is definitely higher than the dps loss from the energy generation.  Just make sure you are on top of turning BF on/off.  Related, if KS is going to be coming off CD and the add will be spawning within 5 seconds or so, I will delay KS until the add is up to cast KS while BF is cleaving.  It's also just better for the group to burn the add faster, even if it's not actually a DPS gain.

 

Carrn already touched on boss uptime with ShadowStep/Sprint, so I won't bother mentioning that.

 

Lastly a very important thing to mention is that although damage numbers do matter, and maximizing your dps is great, Imperator is not necesarilly the fight to be worried about actual DPS.  It's far more important to be switching to adds quickly, getting brands out, and killing mobs in transitional periods as fast as possible, especially during progression attempts.  Sure casting KS and AR when the boss is at 28% will be a DPS increase over waiting to cast them, but you should be saving those CDs for the Reaver and Warmages.

Edited by Ballharder

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  1. You had some downtime at the start of Lust - you missed almost 10 seconds of time attacking something, 8 of which were inside the Lust timer. Being able to maximise time on the boss during Lust will give you a huge improvement
  2. Lastly, your second Potion should always always be used on Lust

 

For Damage Taken, you're doing pretty well. I suggest running Elusiveness and taking advantage of Feint, cause that will help your healers out a lot. 

 

For the Lust downtime, it's because they send me to deal with Warmages and hit lust, so I end up standing there for a few seconds while they spawn.. Is there another way I could be doing this more efficiently?  Maybe saving step for that and hitting Reaver a few times?

 

As for the damage taken, is Feint energy cost worth losing the effect of Cheat Death?  I have noticed Cheat Death saving me from damage a couple of times the brand got improperly dealt with or during transition phases, although there have been times it hasn't proc'd at all which in retrospect answers my own question.. ha.

 

 

I don't know how to use quotes apparently ??

Edited by TheWillrus

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Warmages spawn before the Reaver gets through the door... It sounds to me like someone in your group is trigger happy with Lust if you're standing there waiting for the Warmage is up.

 

Elusiveness over Cheat Death really just depends on your healers.  In a perfect world you really shouldn't have to feint, but it will save your healers mana if you use it on novas, adds aoe, brands, when fixated, and small adds dying in transition phases.  About the only time there's a DPS race on the fight is the transition phase between 3 and 4, so helping your healers out if they are struggling should be a higher priority than getting in a few more SS's.  I personally use Cheat Death because our healers generally aren't struggling for mana unless people are hitting mines... which should never happen.  Cheat Death just let's me have a bit more peace of mind knowing I don't have to worry about using feint or cloak to save my ass in a split-second situation.

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Warmages spawn before the Reaver gets through the door... It sounds to me like someone in your group is trigger happy with Lust if you're standing there waiting for the Warmage is up.

 

Elusiveness over Cheat Death really just depends on your healers.  In a perfect world you really shouldn't have to feint, but it will save your healers mana if you use it on novas, adds aoe, brands, when fixated, and small adds dying in transition phases.  About the only time there's a DPS race on the fight is the transition phase between 3 and 4, so helping your healers out if they are struggling should be a higher priority than getting in a few more SS's.  I personally use Cheat Death because our healers generally aren't struggling for mana unless people are hitting mines... which should never happen.  Cheat Death just let's me have a bit more peace of mind knowing I don't have to worry about using feint or cloak to save my ass in a split-second situation.

 

Just going to come out and say that this is pretty much entirely incorrect. In higher difficulty of raids, there is a lot of damage that needs to be mitigated in order to help healers, especially while progressing without a heap of extra gear. For this reason, Feint will almost always be more useful, as if Cheat Death procs then you very likely stood in something or got hit by something that you should have avoided, either by not standing in it or hitting Cloak / Feint / Evasion.

 

 

I don't know how to use quotes apparently ??

 

Keep your own replies outside the box, and you'll do fine haha :P

 

To answer your questions though, I suggest Sprinting over and be waiting next to them to spawn. I think the Lust was a little early, but the WW didn't seem to have an issue so I'm not sure what happened.

 

As I mentioned above, having an on-demand shield wall is great, and almost a 70% reduction on AoE damage and 30% on any other damage is fantastic

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To answer your questions though, I suggest Sprinting over and be waiting next to them to spawn. I think the Lust was a little early, but the WW didn't seem to have an issue so I'm not sure what happened.

 

As I mentioned above, having an on-demand shield wall is great, and almost a 70% reduction on AoE damage and 30% on any other damage is fantastic

Ahh I get it!  Outside the box OP.. 

 

The WW we usually have on the Reaver since he is our highest melee DPS and that thing hits like a truck, so that might be why he has more uptime?  I will try and see if I can wait longer on the boss and spend less time traveling to the mages next attempt we do.  

 

Agreed on the Shield Wall, will definitely be trying that out next run too, although is there any time in that fight where evasion would be useful? I know the only time I'm "tanking" is mages and it is only the Fixate that is really hitting me unless there is a hidden mechanic I am unaware of?

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Just going to come out and say that this is pretty much entirely incorrect. In higher difficulty of raids, there is a lot of damage that needs to be mitigated in order to help healers, especially while progressing without a heap of extra gear. For this reason, Feint will almost always be more useful, as if Cheat Death procs then you very likely stood in something or got hit by something that you should have avoided, either by not standing in it or hitting Cloak / Feint / Evasion.

 

I'm pretty sure if you re-read the entirety of what I said and not focus on the first line you'll realize that I was trying to convey the same message that you were.  I was referring more to this fight in particular in the current state of the game, which maybe I should have emphasized more.  I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement that Elusiveness shouldn't be used.  In fact I was trying to say that it is what he should be using.

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Ahh I get it!  Outside the box OP.. 

 

The WW we usually have on the Reaver since he is our highest melee DPS and that thing hits like a truck, so that might be why he has more uptime?  I will try and see if I can wait longer on the boss and spend less time traveling to the mages next attempt we do.  

 

Agreed on the Shield Wall, will definitely be trying that out next run too, although is there any time in that fight where evasion would be useful? I know the only time I'm "tanking" is mages and it is only the Fixate that is really hitting me unless there is a hidden mechanic I am unaware of?

 

No, I don't think there's anything Evasion is great for unless you end up tanking an add by mistake for a bit. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure if you re-read the entirety of what I said and not focus on the first line you'll realize that I was trying to convey the same message that you were.  I was referring more to this fight in particular in the current state of the game, which maybe I should have emphasized more.  I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement that Elusiveness shouldn't be used.  In fact I was trying to say that it is what he should be using.

 

It's more the impression that using Cheat Death gives you peace of mind or allows you to avoid using your other survival skills that I find really counter intuitive. If that isn't what you meant then awesome, glad we agree.

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It's more the impression that using Cheat Death gives you peace of mind or allows you to avoid using your other survival skills that I find really counter intuitive. If that isn't what you meant then awesome, glad we agree.

 

Fair enough.  Perhaps "peace of mind" was a bad way to put it.  I was not trying to imply that one should ever actively avoid using other survival skills.

 

I think a lot of my distaste for feint in general is that there are very few (if any?) other "at the cost of dps, zero cooldown" mitigation tools available (or at least being utilized) to other dps classes, so using feint at proper times to mitigate damage often gets overlooked, and/or overhealed.  It's just not a rewarding spell.

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Ahh I get it!  Outside the box OP.. 

 

The WW we usually have on the Reaver since he is our highest melee DPS and that thing hits like a truck, so that might be why he has more uptime?  I will try and see if I can wait longer on the boss and spend less time traveling to the mages next attempt we do.  

 

Agreed on the Shield Wall, will definitely be trying that out next run too, although is there any time in that fight where evasion would be useful? I know the only time I'm "tanking" is mages and it is only the Fixate that is really hitting me unless there is a hidden mechanic I am unaware of?

 

My apologies for kind of hi-jacking the thread, but back to a point I originally made... The reaver gets to the fight after the warmages, so I'm really confused on what sort of strategy your raid is implementing if A.) you're splitting damage on the reaver and warmages, and B.) you are unable to damage the warmages before the reaver comes out.  I thought the "everyone does this" strategy was for all dps to burn the reaver asap, and then kill 1 warmage.  Whether or not you kill the 2nd warmage is the only difference I've seen.

Edited by Ballharder

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