toadkult

Is Hearthstone Pay To Win?

30 posts in this topic

I've been playing for a couple weeks now, and I lose almost all of my games, because I'm using the base decks, and everyone else seems to have decks that they've dumped a lot of money on. There seems to be no section to play against new players, even the ranked game doesn't let you go below the starting rank, so you're still playing against over powered bought decks. 

 

Sure, I could go into the Arena and lose because I'm new and bad instead of losing because I won't spend $250 to play a free game, but what I'd like is to play against people of equal skill and win some of the time. Is that impossible in this game? Do I need to spend a lot of money or just uninstall it?

 

Before you ask, I've read all the guides here and built several of the beginner decks. Some win 1 out of 5 games, some (like the Druid deck) never, ever win, and I think are legitimately trolls. 

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You can pay to try and get better cards by buying packs(not guaranteed you will get amazing cards) but this game is more "Grind to win", You have to put time into it, farm some gold, play arena, Tavern brawl gives you a free pack on your first win every week. It's like any other card game, you have to get packs and build a collection. You cant just install and expect to beat people who have been playing the game for a couple years. My suggestion is pick a class and focus on building one deck atm, Farm up some gold buy packs when you get cards you dont need disenchant them for dust so you can craft the cards you do need for your deck. Also it is definitely worth farming gold and using it to buy naxx, Lot's of really good cards from there, and its pretty fun. 

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Well, you are right to a certain extent. Better cards help.

However, you should still be able to win some games with the basic decks. What rank are you? I would recommend playing ranked, that way you have the best chances of facing equally skilled, newer players. Also, did you play and win against all AI classes? Both normal and expert? Not only will that help you to get familiar with thr game, but it will also grant you some gold you can spend on classic packs to get some better cards. Finally, I would suggest you pick one class first, like mage, which is a little easier to get used to and has a good hero power. Good luck!

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It is and it isn't...Obviously, if you have more cards then you will have the possibility to build better decks. And one way to get more cards is to buy them. So in that way it is. Another way is to keep playing, your card pool will grow, though more slowly. I have been playing for three months now and apart from Naxx and BRM which i bought with real money, I haven't spend a dime on Hearthstone, yet have quite a decent card pool already and can even build a few tier-1 decks.

 

At the same time it isn't P2W, I played last season with a 0-dust deck and managed to get 100 ranked games in, going 54-46 and ending rank 13 (top 15% of all ranked players). Now a 0 dust deck isn't necessarily free, because I included lots of cards from BRM (and 2 Dark cultists from Naxx, which are completely replaceable). But yeah, without BRM this deck wouldn't be possible and unfortunately the adventures are horribly inefficient to buy with in-game gold. If you spend any amount of dough on Hearthstone, the adventures would be the way to go! Even so, the very basic decks should be able to do better than 1 out of 5. 50-50 will require a lot of skill, but 35-40% winrates should be possible. Personally I am rather fond of the Shaman and Mage basic decks. Their class cards are very strong and don't require combining with expensive cards to get a lot of value from them.  

 

Still it takes some time to learn to play properly in general and more so to learn how to play against specific enemy decks. I'd reconsider trying some arena though. There is a learning curve here as well, but are two main benefits: the first one is that your card pool doesn't matter, the second one is that you don't have to learn how to deal with specific enemy decks. So that removes at least some of the entry barriers.

Another way is to keep an eye on the tavern brawls. The one from two weeks ago involved preconstructed decks, so card pool doesn't matter either.   

 

Hope this helps!

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I'm in the same boat as toadkult in that I started playing about two weeks ago and haven't spent any RL money.  I don't seem to have quite the losing percentage he does but I definitely do lose more than I win.  I can get up to around rank 20-19 and do ok, but do run into people even at that level with some crazy powerful decks.  It does make me wonder why they are at that rank.  Perhaps the question isn't how can I win more, but more how can I get matched up against those that are in the same situation as I?  By that I mean new players who haven't bought a ton of powerful cards yet.  It's slightly frustrating to lose to someone not because they have better tactics, like the person who kept playing Coldlight Oracles until I ran out of cards and died of fatigue, but because they dropped 3 straight uber legendary cards on me.

 

I completely understand the need to grind out the wins to obtain the gold to get card packs.  That's what I've been concentrating on fully.  Yes, it is slow going and I have no expectations that I'm going to beat established players anytime soon.  But in order to get competative games I've had to resort to conceding every other game to ensure I don't get boosted up the ranked ladder at all.  Is that really how everyone else did it in the beginning, or is there some trick that toadkult and I are missing?

Btw, toadkult, if there is some way you and I could meet up in the game and play I'm all for it.

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Yes, that's exactly it. I'd like to play against other new players to win some and lose some against people making the same mistakes I am. Seeing a strategy I hadn't thought of from a player using similar cards to me is fun, even if I lose. Playing against a guy with the same rank as me who demolishes me with a deck of entirely gold and legendary cards makes me want to play something else instead. 

 

I've beaten all the basic AIs and gotten all the decks. I've not beaten all the expert, some are too hard. I've been spending my gold on Arena, but losing three games in a row and getting a pack and 25 gold isn't great, especially since the packs never seem to have anything good in them. I'm saving for Naxxramus instead now, only because it's something different, but the rewards look like a bunch of stuff I don't want either. 

 

If I'm playing against opponents of equal skill, I should be winning 50/50. This game doesn't seem to be about that, however. It's very much trial by fire. They put you up against far better opponents so you can lose a lot until you have the gold and skill to win. I suspect I will get fed up and stop playing the game long before I get there. 

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Spending gold on Arena is not a good idea in the beginning, unless you enjoy that mode of course. The advantage is that you have access to all cards that way.

I have to say, I would definitively try to beat all expert AI. Its not so hard if you analyze their deck and style of play. This also helps you to understand your deck. And beating all exoert AI will give you another 100 gold so access to more cards.

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Yes, that's exactly it. I'd like to play against other new players to win some and lose some against people making the same mistakes I am. Seeing a strategy I hadn't thought of from a player using similar cards to me is fun, even if I lose. Playing against a guy with the same rank as me who demolishes me with a deck of entirely gold and legendary cards makes me want to play something else instead. 

 

I've beaten all the basic AIs and gotten all the decks. I've not beaten all the expert, some are too hard. I've been spending my gold on Arena, but losing three games in a row and getting a pack and 25 gold isn't great, especially since the packs never seem to have anything good in them. I'm saving for Naxxramus instead now, only because it's something different, but the rewards look like a bunch of stuff I don't want either. 

 

If I'm playing against opponents of equal skill, I should be winning 50/50. This game doesn't seem to be about that, however. It's very much trial by fire. They put you up against far better opponents so you can lose a lot until you have the gold and skill to win. I suspect I will get fed up and stop playing the game long before I get there. 

 

You definitely want the cards from naxx, A LOT of really good cards in there. 

The other option would maybe make a post looking for new players and you can duel each other and learn the game together. 

Edited by Oltier

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Just for perspective, I recently started a series on my stream where I took a brand new account on the Asia server, and invested no money into it. These sorts of runs have been done before, but some people question whether they're still possible now that the expansion cards are so important. I played 5-6 days on stream, for 5 hours each, and reached Rank 5 before the Ladder reset, I have no doubt that I would have hit Legend in the first month if I had started earlier, and I will certainly get it this month if I play on that account enough. So yes, starting out with no cards kinda sucks, but if you learn the game quickly, and are efficient with your resources, you can build one or two top level decks quite easily.

As a direct answer, it's pay to save time. There's no way you can argue that Hearthstone fits the definition of pay to win, nothing is hidden behind a paywall. Everything you can unlock with a financial investment, can also be unlocked with a time investment.

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Is Expert Paladin just really broken or something? He's beat me like six times in a row, and it's not even been close. He always has every card he needs, perfect synergy with draw order, and just one broken card after another. 

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It's probably one of his more annoying/stronger decks especially when the divine shield minions get buffed, but I just beat him 3 times out of 4 using a mage deck with basic cards only and not especially tuned to the encounter. So it's definitely possible!

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Also, should I just not play ranked early in the month? If it was horribly unfair before, it's completely absurd now. 

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Naxx is definitely extremely good value for Gold.

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Saved up enough to buy the first part of Naxx. Big surprise, it's way too hard. 

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Um, are you trying to beat Heroic? Because the standard bosses should be quite easy to defeat, even with basic decks, they're designed to be that way.

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Hey Sottle, it's a bit off-talk but do you have in mind to a new meta analysis quite soon ? The last one is 3 months old and the meta has quite changed since then.

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No, I'm on standard. The first boss I was able to defeat after a few tries, but the second one just demolishes me. I'm using the priest deck from this site, and I've read the guide on her from here as well, but I just can't get cards out of my hand fast enough, and her summons are way too powerful compared to mine. 

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i have played HS for around 10 months now without spending a single penny on the game,and i have since built countless competitive decks such as freeze mage,midrange/face hunter,aggro pally,giants mage,etc(am currently 2 molten giants away from completing my handlock).i also reached legend last season for the first time.

 

so yeah,the answer is no,but if you are f2p you will have to grind a lot for your stuff.to me having to work to get my cards only makes the game more fun though.

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No, I'm on standard. The first boss I was able to defeat after a few tries, but the second one just demolishes me. I'm using the priest deck from this site, and I've read the guide on her from here as well, but I just can't get cards out of my hand fast enough, and her summons are way too powerful compared to mine. 

Perhaps try the Mage instead?  I've found that one to be the strongest of the basic decks. 

On a slightly different note we were talking win percentages earlier.  Took me 17 tries to get 2 wins in ranked play, but causal play seems to have more "normal" decks at the moment.  Win percentage much higher there.  You may want to give it a try.  I'm guessing ranked is pretty crazy the first few days, probably best people like us stay out of it the first few days of the month.

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Hi

It is definitely possible to beat Naxxramas using only basic decks

For fun I once decided to vs all of the naxxramas bosses using only the premade to see if it was possible and it definitely is

I would try the priest basic deck. Cards like Gurubashi can become outrageous and the healing is a good counter to her ability

 

Feel free to add me, I am more than willing to spectate and see if i can help

XuanWu #6437

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Hi there,

 

I just started playing Hearthstone 4 days ago and I'm also having some frustration related to not having access to better cards, but I suppose it's kind of a 'penalty' that every new player has to experience.

 

Another kind of unfair thing is tha fact that Arena gives away just GvG boosters, instead of letting new players to choose the classic ones. I spent 300 gold in Arena before realising it, and it kinda sucks. I guess I'll have to just buy packs at 100G each for a looong time if I want to get a decent pool of classic cards...

 

Anyway, by now I'm working on getting every character to level 10 and then the mage to level 20 (I already noticed it's probably the best class if you're constricted to basic cards) to get access to the tavern brawls. So if anyone who is also new to the game wants to add me and play with basic cards and earn some EXP for leveling up some classes, feel free to do so. I'm DarkVaati #2503.

Edited by DarkVaati

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they game is and isnt pay to win you can do amazing with just a deck with rares look at shaman one of the best classes because of the class rares alone. but at the same time its a ccg not some random online game. and with any ccg there will be people who will have an advantage cause they spent money. just because the game is on pc doesnt negate that fact that it is a ccg first and foremost 

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Sounds like you need to give it some time.  I've been playing off and on since the Beta.  When I first started out I was getting stomped left and right.  It took time to learn the cards, play around with different strategies and see what works best for my play style.  I know it's frustrating to be new to a game where others have a lot more time invested in it, but keep at it and you can be one of the best.  smile.png  

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It's definitely pay to win. That's how Blizzard gets paid. I recommend investing about $200 into the game. Buy both adventures and spend the rest on classic packs. You'll be set. Get good, enter some tourneys, win them and you'll make your cash back. It's a fun game and if you enjoy a product you should be willing to invest in it. Otherwise go play Yu-Gi-Oh on Dueling Network.

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