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Mav360

Help noob Rogue in PvE!

15 posts in this topic

I've been around WoW for some time, but never played it seriously until now, so I'm basically a noob yet. I've extensively read guides and know theoretically the basic stuff.

This is my main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/nagrand/drackor/advanced

I actually choose to play Subtlety in PvE because I just like the spec and feels fun to play with, more fun than Assassination and Combat (I hate Combat). I know Sub is the worst choice, but I still thought I could do it. According to Shadowcraft, I should be doing 64261.3 DPS (also a weird thing, Shadowcraft status weight for Sub goes like this: Crit > Mastery > Haste, while all other guides go with Haste > Crit > Mastery). But whenever I go raiding in LFR, my DPS is always around 47k~54k. I follow Icy Veins guide for DPS, but I'm aware I have little experience.

So how can a noob like me improve? Can I keep playing Sub, or is it too complicated for a noob?

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In my honest opinion if you like sub, you should play it. It is a LOT more complicated than combat or assassination. I myself love assassination, but I like sub too, it's just too complicated for me to work in a actual raid environment. Nothing is too complicated if you take time to learn it.

Best thing you should is to read guides about sub pve, train it at dummy, train it at lfr. It needs a lot more training than most specs ever.

Shadowcraft weighs your stats about your current gear, but at lower item levels the stat difference is so small because you can't push your stats so much so even though it says to you crit>mastery>haste, just focus on getting hit and expertise capped and then get haste. You really need the haste.

If I can help you more or you didn't understand everything just reply Posted Image

Edited by Dreamrogue

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Well, i'd recommend u go Assassination as its the strongest rogue spec, but if u really wanna play Sub, the main reason sub's are behind in dps, aside from the stats, is the rotation. Out of all 3 rogue specs, sub's the most complicatied, still easier than it was in cata =)

Ur rotation should be something like this:

Combo builder: Ambush if in stealth > Hemorrage to apply debuff > Backstab

Combo spender: Apply and maintain Slice and Dice > Apply and maintain Rapture > Eviscarate

Remember to allways use poisons. Using ur CD's will help ur preformence alot too, Like use Vanish on CD for mid fight stealth, and before using Ambush also apply Premiditation for extra 2 combopoints. Use Shadow Dance as offen as possible and use Ambush as ur Combopoint builder. Shadow blades should be used with other CD's such as trinks, Shadow Dance, Hero, etc... But u shouldn't delay to to much if none of ur own CD's are coming off shortly and hero is allredy used or saved for later.

I hope this helps u a little bit and as allways if u have any additional questions do not hasitate to ask =)

- Horcored

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Also, this applys to all ur specs, u should try and upgrade ur weaps, they'll improve ur dps alot.

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I may add too, that macroing premeditation to your ambush makes things slightly easier. One less button on subs total nightmare rotation helps a lot. And as a hint, the higher your Find Weakness uptime is, the higher your dps is. That means you should use vanish for ambush just before your former find weakness fades. (In best case scenario the ambush lands when you still have find weakness up)

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Ye, i thats right Dreamrogue =D I forgot to mention that =P

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Tomorrow going to test a bit of subtlety myself :D just for the fun of insane rotation. (catas rotation NEVEEER AGAIN..)

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Hi,

I play sub spec to, and its a very fun spec. I think this spec is not very hard to play, you just have to pratice a litle more.

Assasination spec is easy to play because the most part of the damages are passives (poisons) and you have only one debuff to refresh. It easily provides you a correct dps.

BUT :

In my honest opinion if you like sub, you should play it.

To increase your dps :

- In first, you should enchant your stuff. However, your are an engineer, don't forget to use you synaptic gloves each time you use Shadow Dance (they have 1 min cd, so you can coordinate them all the time)

- Try to maximize the uptime of Find Weakness. You can use (Vanish + ambush) and (Preparation + Vanish + ambush) during long fights to do it. (In fact, you have to ;) )

- Try to prepare you shadow dance before use it. I mean, when you launch Shadow dance, you should have 80+ energy, be behind you target and get Slice and Dice and 'Rupture' (don't know the english name sorry :s ) with 18 sec+ each. Why 18 sec ? because 8 for the shadow dance duration, and 10 for the Find weakness provided by the last ambush

If you need some other advices or have questions, simply ask :)

Jyahh @ Elune -EU

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Well, i'd recommend u go Assassination as its the strongest rogue spec, but if u really wanna play Sub, the main reason sub's are behind in dps, aside from the stats, is the rotation. Out of all 3 rogue specs, sub's the most complicatied, still easier than it was in cata =)

The basic rotation is identical to a Feral Druid. The thing that differentiates Sub is the cooldowns and stealth buffs, which contribute to one of the most impressive opening-burst sequences of any class. You have a very short window in which to do a fairly large percentage of your overall damage, so you'd be well advised to practice on mobs out in the world extensively.

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Thanks for the advice :) some points I will note:

Best thing you should is to read guides about sub pve, train it at dummy, train it at lfr.

Training Sub at dummy is nigh impossible, reason be it that I won't benefict from Honor Among Thieves procs every two seconds like it happens in raid environment, and this is means SO much. With HoT procs, I can cast 5CP Eviscerates like crazy.

Also, this applys to all ur specs, u should try and upgrade ur weaps, they'll improve ur dps alot.

I know, I've been trying for WEEKS to drop some decent weapons from Raid Bosses, but I just can't. I'm nearly tearing out my hair just now, I can't just drop the fucking daggers from the raid bosses. My gear is getting improved, but my daggers stay the same, it's frustrating.

- Try to prepare you shadow dance before use it. I mean, when you launch Shadow dance, you should have 80+ energy, be behind you target and get Slice and Dice and 'Rupture' (don't know the english name sorry :s ) with 18 sec+ each. Why 18 sec ? because 8 for the shadow dance duration, and 10 for the Find weakness provided by the last ambush

Does this means I have to wait, even if Shadow Dance/Vanish is on cooldown, so I get enough time to not refresh Slice and Dice and Rupture during Find Weakness? Or should I clip them so that I get those seconds before SD and Vanish are off cooldown?

I may add too, that macroing premeditation to your ambush makes things slightly easier. One less button on subs total nightmare rotation helps a lot. And as a hint, the higher your Find Weakness uptime is, the higher your dps is. That means you should use vanish for ambush just before your former find weakness fades. (In best case scenario the ambush lands when you still have find weakness up)

Yes, I already that macroed. And I know that trick for using another Ambush before Find Weakness is down, but I don't really use it because I find it somewhat of a contradiction. I mean, if I do that, I will eventually run out of SnD or Rupture during Find Weakness, and the uptime will be wasted. I prefer to wait, but maybe I'm wrong, it's another problem of Sub getting so little attention since I can't clarify these doubts.

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Thanks for the advice Posted Image some points I will note:

Training Sub at dummy is nigh impossible, reason be it that I won't benefict from Honor Among Thieves procs every two seconds like it happens in raid environment, and this is means SO much. With HoT procs, I can cast 5CP Eviscerates like crazy.

Do you have a bear tank you can borrow to autoattack the dummy and afk while you get HoT? :D

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Just a bear tank? Sometimes I don't even get the HAT procs every 2 seconds in a dungeon! Posted Image

Edited by Mav360

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Just a bear tank? Sometimes I don't even get the HoT procs every 2 seconds in a dungeon! Posted Image

There are very few builds that run with high Critical Strike. Bears probably have the highest of any class in the game because we get a bonus from Crit on our gear, plus it's our best defensive stat. Running at 56% chance to crit buffed!

Edited by Tarazet

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Even so, HAT does not proc from autoattacks, only from spells Posted Image

Edited by Mav360

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Training Sub at dummy is nigh impossible, reason be it that I won't benefict from Honor Among Thieves procs every two seconds like it happens in raid environment, and this is means SO much. With HoT procs, I can cast 5CP Eviscerates like crazy.

You still should train it to get comfortable to spamming ambush, pooling energy etc. It makes you more comfortable with the spec.

Other things I want to say is that it's important not to drop SnD and rupture during shadow dance. If you're having 20-30 secs on them, don't refresh them and watch not to drop them after shadow dance. (Remember energy pooling! Key to all rogue specs!)

After that (during find weakness) if it drops, prepare for it. If I would have the 5cp's I would pool energy like 3 secs before I have to refresh rupture or SnD and then just spam the boss. Refreshing takes 1 gcd.

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