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gonlaz

I really need resto help, logs inside

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I am sorry for the bother, this is bothering the hell out of me. I have been playing dps for 15 years in one computer game or another, and wow for 6 years. Currently I am 8/14 H on my main rogue and have cleared all content in game from that time. Of course hat means nothing on my healer, and I am really embarassed. I leveled this druid as resto solely so I could learn to heal, and do good enough in 5 mans, lfr and flex and normal up to wing 3. It is at that point that I hit a wall and can't heal shit. People in 539 gear are killing me.

I researched til I was too tired to read, I hit the same buttons the guides say to hit, the same haste breaks, etc but I just can't do it.

Would someone please take a sec to check out the log here and give any pointers?

I use ask mr robot, or reforge lite, not sure who to trust anymore with that.

 

First my armory (and I just got the naz trink today)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Oomjin/advanced

 

Logs from today's normal run, 25 man (oddly enough I two healed normal 10 man up to spoils in the past so not sure why I fall flat):

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3jl6iaj8b1k1vyfl/sum/healingDone/

 

Please and thank you, I would like to do more than just dps on my warrior and rogue in the game going forward.

 

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ok first you should not be using White Cloud Belt. it cloth, you should be using Pennyroyal Belt.

you have way to much spirit.  your haste is extremely low at this point most druids are pushing to the 32.1% haste(10970), or the at 37.52% haste break point. (13163)

your gemming is part of your issues. it all over the place. for red you should be using Reckless Vermilion Onyx for yellow Quick Sun's Radiance and for blue Energized Wild Jade that part of your issues. .push your haste to a honest cap( the 12% cap is way too low for soo.)

for spell usage your not using soul of the forest at all. you dont pop Swiftmend  so that soF prock so it cant up your healing tick of wild growth at all.Lifebloom should be keep on the tanks and it like you forget to use it some times.

hope this helps. if you got more logs then i could know more. but i think your major issues are:

low haste

gemming issies

trying to get way to much spirit.

no real usage of swiftment and lifebloom

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First your trinkets are really bad,  both of those trinkets are some of the worst trinkets for druid healing.  You want to get thoks tooth ASAP, The other major trinket to get is the Prison of pride.   Also you should be going for the 37.52% haste cap, your gear is good enough to make the cap so you should be going for that, at the very least you should be going for the 21.43% haste cap.  Outside of that issue your main other thing is your wild growth and tranquillity use was very bad.  Make sure you are using those when there is aoe damage.   Your main thing was during the large aoe spikes your aoe healing was bad,  on those spikes make sure to use your wild growth and tranquillity.  Pop swiftmend pretty much on cooldown,  same thing on using your free healing touches.  

 

The other major thing I noticed was your harmony uptime was really low,  that should be one of your big focuses, never let harmony drop off in combat,  you should be using your swiftmends enough to keep that up all the time.

Edited by Maethor

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Hey thank you both very much for the responses. I used mr Robot, per Icy Veins for that gemming thing, said it was guaranteed to be the best. But I am flexible and will regem no problem.

 

Did you say I wasn't using Swiftmend? I saw that too but I could have sworn that I use it a lot. Like it's binded to my middle mouse button and I use it after I have some Rejuv's on a few targets. (I use Vuhdo and that's how it is bound) I'm not sure how it's not showing up because I swear I hit that middle button a lot. Should I be using Tranq on cd? Usually I wait until super heavy damage to try and avoid overhealing, but I still end up over healing a lot.

 

I guess I thought that I was supposed to wait on the haste cap thing until I was certain that I could hit the second break point over 3043, so I should get it as high as possible and skip mastery until then?

 

thanks again, I will run more logs when I can and post. Thank you!

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You should be using swiftmend pretty much on cooldown,  a lot of the time I will use it even on someone full hp or barely missing to keep up harmony.  I generally just use it on the tank since I already keep a hot on them anyways and wait til they take damage.  The big thing is it is the cheapest way to refresh harmony most of the time.  I wouldn't say using tranq on CD, but you should know the big damage bursts on the fight and know if you can get multiple uses in, that just takes knowing the fights though.  

 

The haste thing is major, frankly the default recommendations for druids on mr robot are crap,  the weights they set for druids are in general really terrible.    

In general you should wait until you know you can hit the haste cap, but you are able to hit the 37% haste cap but you would lose your gem slot bonuses, I would have to test to see if that would be worth it, you should probably only go for the 21.43% for now though.

 

Edit:

Your almost perfect, just set ask mr robot for haste to 21.43%, then once you get some more gear upgrades test it again.

Edited by Maethor

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It depends, I would say just go for the 21.43% cap for now,  if you use soul of the forest you can go for the 32% haste cap, but in general that would make your play a bit more difficult so I say just go for the 21.43% cap, just set mrrobot to not mess with your gems.

 

Edit: I would probably set a spirit cap as well,  really what you set depends on your needs and playstyle, some set it fairly low at 12k or lower often enough.  

Edited by Maethor

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I like SoTF because you can do it with tranquillity and if you really use it well it can be a major bonus, but a lot of it is preference as well.  SoTF is a bit trickier of a playstyle since your using swiftmind on cooldown to trigger the effect more than for the swiftmend healing.

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Hi gonlaz! Welcome to IV Forums biggrin.png

 

First thing I'm going to do is suggest your read my guide on resto here in the forums. 

 

As far as your gear goes, gear is largely irrelevant. We killed Garrosh with a 564 pally tank and my at 569 ilvl - it's all about how you play. However, as far as setup goes, you should try dropping down to 6652 haste and see if you can get away with less spirit (you may not be able to without the meta gem depending on what you're healing).

 

I don't use Ask Mr. Robot or ReforgeLite to do my reforging - I just do it by hand. It's not necessary to be incredibly particular about it, and both of those tend to screw up and put me either way over haste cap or desired spirit regardless of how I set the weights.

 

Don't put your focus on your gear. Put your focus on your play style, because 90% of the improvement you can make is going to come from how you play.

 

I'll come back through and look through your logs over the next bit between pulls as we're raiding right now.

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Do you think I should use Incarnation instead of SoTF?

no over all sotf give you more healing then the burst  healing then 3 min cool down.  i would not use mr robot or any reforging add one most are wrong. you could push your haste a bit more if you reforge out of spirit to haste. i have about 18000 mana reg. i would suggest pushing to the next haste cap you have 10683 the next cap is 10970. your swiftmend dose not show up. it could be that your middle buttion is bad( happen to me about 4 months ago

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As far as your logs go, see if you can switch to Warcraft Logs instead of WoL. If you aren't the one taking logs for your guild, begin taking your own logs. Warcraft Logs is significantly more powerful and can show much, MUCH more information that WoL. If you're unfamiliar with it, try giving Zagam's guide a read.

 

Your first issue is that you're not keeping Lifebloom up on a target - for the three longest Malkorok wipes (2, 3, and 4) you had 0% uptime (not used at all), 32% uptime, and 25% uptime. Set yourself a starting goal to get this to at least 70%.

 

Your Wild Growth is also really low. Comparing to our kill last night on Heroic, I had 14% of my healing coming from WG, with 90% uptime on it. Your uptimes were 7%, 18%, and 16% on the wipes I'm looking at for 4%, 7% and 8% of your healing. Malkorok is almost impossible to overheal on, so you should pretty much always be throwing stuff out on almost everyone. Wild Growth is fantastic at getting shields on everyone. Make sure you use SotF on it.

 

Those are two big things to work on, so I'll stop there for now with one fight specific tip: don't glyph Regrowth on Malkorok. If you see someone under 50% health, SotF a Regrowth onto them to have a extra-haste HoT on them until the next Blood Rage since it automatically refreshes on everyone sub-50%.

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All these guides, Krazy. It's like we've got a miniature WoW encyclopedia here.

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Now that I'm awake and not about to fall asleep:

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/1a9dbfc1-676f-40a6-a5c5-7a059940290e

 

Result:

mELL8KX.png

 

These weights can get you to the 13k haste breakpoint, keep you at about 5k mastery and keel about 12k spirit.  If you need more spirit then adjust the value in the weights.  If you think you want to wait to get more haste gear you can use the full mastery weights I gave in that other thread.

 

Lastly, if you upgrade all you're gear you'll probably see a significant boost to mastery since you're just barely there with gear to hit 13k

 

-----

 

Now I want to chime in about how some people are disliking Mr. Robot becasue it is "wrong".  I've tried very hard to educate people that Mr. Robot is only as "correct" as they set it to be.  You can't have everything in the world automatic and handed you on a silver platter.  I've posted this before that if you take the time to understand how the stat weights work you can get it to pretty much do anything you want and it can help you understand how your class may work better.  Just loading Mr. Robot and seeing that he suggest all spirit gems and claiming that he is "wrong" is just outright ignorance.

 

Fact:  Mr. Robot is always right.  He will always tell you the correct thing to do with the parameters that you set for him.  If you don't tell him exactly what to do, then don't complain when he is "wrong".

 

The last thing I want to say is there are people like Kaz as well.  I'm absolutly sure he understands everything I just said.  He even mentioned that it didnt do everything he wanted when he set the weights.   Which is the key to this.  He set his weights, it still didn't do exactly what he wanted.  So he finds his own way by hand or other means.

 

There are other people in this thread that have blindly said "Oh, hes suggesting full spirit? he must not work properly then".  Don't do that.  Please educate yourself on why you are so incorrect in saying that.  Don't blindly tell people not to use Mr. Robot solely based on the default weights he provides.

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As far as your logs go, see if you can switch to Warcraft Logs instead of WoL. If you aren't the one taking logs for your guild, begin taking your own logs. Warcraft Logs is significantly more powerful and can show much, MUCH more information that WoL. If you're unfamiliar with it, try giving Zagam's guide a read.

 

Your first issue is that you're not keeping Lifebloom up on a target - for the three longest Malkorok wipes (2, 3, and 4) you had 0% uptime (not used at all), 32% uptime, and 25% uptime. Set yourself a starting goal to get this to at least 70%.

 

Your Wild Growth is also really low. Comparing to our kill last night on Heroic, I had 14% of my healing coming from WG, with 90% uptime on it. Your uptimes were 7%, 18%, and 16% on the wipes I'm looking at for 4%, 7% and 8% of your healing. Malkorok is almost impossible to overheal on, so you should pretty much always be throwing stuff out on almost everyone. Wild Growth is fantastic at getting shields on everyone. Make sure you use SotF on it.

 

Those are two big things to work on, so I'll stop there for now with one fight specific tip: don't glyph Regrowth on Malkorok. If you see someone under 50% health, SotF a Regrowth onto them to have a extra-haste HoT on them until the next Blood Rage since it automatically refreshes on everyone sub-50%.

Ok thank you, I am going to rework my ui for lifebloom and other timers and study more. You have been very helpful, thank you!

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Now that I'm awake and not about to fall asleep:

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/1a9dbfc1-676f-40a6-a5c5-7a059940290e

 

Result:

mELL8KX.png

 

These weights can get you to the 13k haste breakpoint, keep you at about 5k mastery and keel about 12k spirit.  If you need more spirit then adjust the value in the weights.  If you think you want to wait to get more haste gear you can use the full mastery weights I gave in that other thread.

 

Lastly, if you upgrade all you're gear you'll probably see a significant boost to mastery since you're just barely there with gear to hit 13k

 

-----

 

Now I want to chime in about how some people are disliking Mr. Robot becasue it is "wrong".  I've tried very hard to educate people that Mr. Robot is only as "correct" as they set it to be.  You can't have everything in the world automatic and handed you on a silver platter.  I've posted this before that if you take the time to understand how the stat weights work you can get it to pretty much do anything you want and it can help you understand how your class may work better.  Just loading Mr. Robot and seeing that he suggest all spirit gems and claiming that he is "wrong" is just outright ignorance.

 

Fact:  Mr. Robot is always right.  He will always tell you the correct thing to do with the parameters that you set for him.  If you don't tell him exactly what to do, then don't complain when he is "wrong".

 

The last thing I want to say is there are people like Kaz as well.  I'm absolutly sure he understands everything I just said.  He even mentioned that it didnt do everything he wanted when he set the weights.   Which is the key to this.  He set his weights, it still didn't do exactly what he wanted.  So he finds his own way by hand or other means.

 

There are other people in this thread that have blindly said "Oh, hes suggesting full spirit? he must not work properly then".  Don't do that.  Please educate yourself on why you are so incorrect in saying that.  Don't blindly tell people not to use Mr. Robot solely based on the default weights he provides.

Ok, thank you very much for the Mr. Robot lesson, I really did not think I would be able to configure it myself, this will help big time.

 

I'm from Louisiana as well, haven't been home in a few years.

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Alright cool, so I need to figure out why my swiftmend isn't showing up because, even though I know I am not very good, I know that I hit my middle button a ton, and I use Vuhdo so I know when swiftmend is being used...odd that it doesn't show up at all. Also I will check out the other log program, been reading that guide just now because I couldn't sleep...insomnia, ugh.

 

I will post updates, a.s.a.p.

 

I'm sure I will have more questions so will post them if you don't mind

 

Thank you again, you all have been super about helping me, I greatly appreciate it!

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edited because I didn't pay attention

Edited by gonlaz

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Did you click the link I posted? http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/1a9dbfc1-676f-40a6-a5c5-7a059940290e

 

If you want to edit the weights yourself based on the guide I had you can do that too and it should work out the same.  Also make sure you click "Update from Armory" to make sure you're character sheet is up to date.

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Fact:  Mr. Robot is always right.  He will always tell you the correct thing to do with the parameters that you set for him.  If you don't tell him exactly what to do, then don't complain when he is "wrong".

 

The last thing I want to say is there are people like Kaz as well.  I'm absolutly sure he understands everything I just said.  He even mentioned that it didnt do everything he wanted when he set the weights.   Which is the key to this.  He set his weights, it still didn't do exactly what he wanted.  So he finds his own way by hand or other means.

 

Part of my mistrust is bred from the warlock community. If you can use it and have it work, more power to you. My issue is with their internal, mathematical algorithms and calculations that don't always lead to optimal output in my experience. 

 

ARM's calculations with the amp trinkets aren't always accurate. They get rounding issues in their calculations somewhere that often lead to their stats being one point off, but I've seen them as much as four points off before. I've had it tell me I was at exactly my haste cap before on my warlock and was still a point under. This can be fixed unequipping the trinket and using another haste value that guarantees it. To find this haste value, look in the chart below. Find your desired breakpoint on the left and your trinket ilvl across the top. Numbers calculated using the formula Zagam discovered for amp trinkets in the lock forums.

 

cCLRIJp.png

 

On more than one occasion, despite adjusting the weights several times, I've had it put me farther over the haste cap than I was able to do by simply changing one or two things, with no adverse affects elsewhere on stats. Most recently, it put me at 400 over haste cap when I could simply reforge a small piece into mastery that had been reforged into haste and be closer.

 

Most of the times I've ever tried to use it for my druid, it's simply given me the most random things. Even with giving spirit a value of 0 and .01 beyond the cap, it's still put me as much as 2000 over the amount of spirit I've asked it for. It's also shorted me up to 600.

 

This is why I simply look at how short I am on my numbers, look at the available numbers, do some mental math, and make it work out. Again, if you can make it work more power to you. I just find that it doesn't work no matter how I tell it to, which I believe to be a core issue with their programming.

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Spirit is a tricky thing with it. I'm assuming you're using Static Spirit? If so its hard to tell you. It usually gets me pretty close, and if its 600 points or so under or over I've assumed thats just a gear limitation with the amount of reforging haveing to be done relative to the other stats I need.

If you didn't use static spirit, thats the problem. It accounts your LMG and and spirit or mana trinkets as effective spirit, but I'm pretty sure you already knew this.

As for haste, its possible that they don't calculate the trinket correctly. I always check to make sure that I'm above it, and for most part it seems fine for me. It really gets down to how accurate you think you are vs what they can do.

For me at least its got all the same ratings that correspond to my armory right now

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/0ea3e66d-d9cf-425f-9916-d5f317455b92

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/krazyito/advanced

It's 1 point over the breakpoint but I see that more as a stat distribution limitation than anything. Haven't had a problem being under the cap with either my druid or monk.

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Yes, it's using static spirit. If I tell a program not to be below a certain amount, it shouldn't be below that amount ever unless I'm literally incapable of getting there. If I tell it that every point above an amount is worthless, it should certainly not put me 2000 points over it, which it has.

 

Being 1 point over is fine. Telling me I'm 1 point over when I'm 1 point under is not. Their calculations occasionally can do that. If it says you're exactly at the breakpoint, you need to really double check to make sure you actually are.

 

Edit: Updated the above post and the guide to have the proper haste breakpoints to use WITHOUT a trinket to get the correct breakpoint after equipping the trinket.

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