Enhancement Shaman 6.2

[Qlix 1]

AS is simming to be 800 dps better than Echo at my gear (632), but I seem to be getting better results from Echo. Without raid logs its hard to know though, because echo skews some things, like, back to back to back fire novas. or back to back to back LvL.

 

Also, Im sim'ing Agi > Haste >> Multi >> Mastery > Crit at the moment.

 

edit: Im also curious about the T17 2PC and how it effects SS/Echo

Edited December 1, 2014 by Qlix

[Damien 1,514]

Did the rotation change at all in regards of the 25.11 hotfix?

According to Purge, the only change was that Chain Lightning now replaces Lightning Bolt at 2 enemies (down from 2) in the multiple-target rotation.

[Damien 1,514]

Question - if you have the Tier 17 bonus, would Echo of the Elements win out in that talent tier due to the increased ability to spam Stormstrike, and therefore further reduce the CD on Feral Spirits?

 

Thoughts?

According to Purge, it does not. It reduces the gap between Echo of the Elements and Ancestral Swiftness in single-target, but Ancestral Swiftness still remains better. 

 

And a plus,

some theorycrafting on ancestral swiftness vs echo of elements now that blizzard added a 20% dmg on both stormstrike and lava lash would be good to have.3

According to Purge, the status quo remains the same.

Are you sure this is updated? Its still has references to SOO and SOO gear.

I removed the 2 mentions of SoO stuff. Sorry about that

 

 

AS is simming to be 800 dps better than Echo at my gear (632), but I seem to be getting better results from Echo. Without raid logs its hard to know though, because echo skews some things, like, back to back to back fire novas. or back to back to back LvL.

 

Also, Im sim'ing Agi > Haste >> Multi >> Mastery > Crit at the moment.

 

edit: Im also curious about the T17 2PC and how it effects SS/Echo

As said in the guide, Echo of the Elements is the best talent when you can make proper use of Fire Nova, so it is not surprising that you see better results with Echo of the Elements, given that you must mainly be running heroic dungeons where there are a lot of mobs to kill. Dungeon boss fights are too short to draw any sort of conclusion from them. Remember that the guides are written with the hard content in mind: raid bosses.

Multistrike and Mastery are very close in value with raid gear, but Mastery becomes so much better when there is any sort of AoE/Cleave damage, that we had to put it ahead in the stat priority.

[Guest Ashagreyjoy]

There's no mention of Improved Maelstrom Weapon and whether that has any effect on hardcasting LB or CL.

[Archernick 0]

According to Purge, it does not. It reduces the gap between Echo of the Elements and Ancestral Swiftness in single-target, but Ancestral Swiftness still remains better. 

 

Is that including the factor of damage that windfury proccing wolves provides; what I mean is that is this just theory, or has he tested it in the WoD beta when you could test Tier 17.

 

Sorry for the relentless questions - wouldn't feel bad if we didn't need to pester you to ask Purge :P

[Damien 1,514]

There's no mention of Improved Maelstrom Weapon and whether that has any effect on hardcasting LB or CL.

 

All perks are considered when writing the guide, because it's not something you can choose to have or not.

 

 

Is that including the factor of damage that windfury proccing wolves provides; what I mean is that is this just theory, or has he tested it in the WoD beta when you could test Tier 17.

 

Sorry for the relentless questions - wouldn't feel bad if we didn't need to pester you to ask Purge

 

Knowing Purge, I'm sure he both tested it during Beta and then tested it on SimulationCraft (which does account for wind fury damage from the spirit wolves).

[Guest Kallya]

One question, the gearing up section contains PVP gear and some of the gear like atleast the Torunament gear will break in PVE why is it included?

 

And how high should you DPS be with a 630gs with BIS for this item level?

 

I don't trust noxxic :D

 

But thanks, greate guide!

[Damien 1,514]

One question, the gearing up section contains PVP gear and some of the gear like atleast the Torunament gear will break in PVE why is it included?

 

And how high should you DPS be with a 630gs with BIS for this item level?

 

I don't trust noxxic

 

But thanks, greate guide!

If you want to figure out how much DPS you should be doing, the best thing to do is to run simulation craft on your character.

Regarding the PvP items included in the guide, they are listed, because they are easy to obtain and they can help you meet item level requirements to queue for Heroics or LFR.

[Magnus 0]

Referencing the ancestral guidance vs rushing streams...

 

I understand that the healing totem is weak but give it can be dropped multiple times in a fight ancestral guidance seems lackluster unless you need burst healing after a phase I guess it could help but then again any healing is helpful at that point right?

[Damien 1,514]

Referencing the ancestral guidance vs rushing streams...

 

I understand that the healing totem is weak but give it can be dropped multiple times in a fight ancestral guidance seems lackluster unless you need burst healing after a phase I guess it could help but then again any healing is helpful at that point right?

I don't understand your sentence.

[Guest Guest]

In MoP times i used to glyph my Fire elemental and use everything every 3 minutes, with Assurance of Consequence trinket things were even more synced .

 

I now have trouble finding the perfect solution on every boss, perhaps because i have  2 kids now and being tired!, but the truth is, without tier 17 bonuses i find the following ideas as useful..I don't have good trinkets yet, call it bad luck...(so no proc trinkets, just passive stats there for now)

 

Use elemental mastery and feral spirit on cd,  ascendance and fire elemental with them if they are ready, they might stay on hold for 1min or 30seconds for that. Berserking staying 1 min to sync with feral spirit and elemental mastery every after 1 Ferals/EM

 

Without elemental mastery, i just use any cd ready when the legendary ring procs and perhaps a weapon enchant procs.

 

but what about if i have lucky double-sided coin and butcher trinket?

 

Does everything becomes on hold till a trinket procs? What is your opinion about it? 

[Voskopoula 1]

In MoP times i used to glyph my Fire elemental and use everything every 3 minutes, with Assurance of Consequence trinket things were even more synced .

 

I now have trouble finding the perfect solution on every boss, perhaps because i have  2 kids now and being tired!, but the truth is, without tier 17 bonuses i am inclined to the following ideas as useful..I don't have good trinkets yet, call it bad luck...(so no proc trinkets, just passive stats there for now)

 

One idea was to use anything that is ready while there is one proc from a weapon or legendary ring

 

Another was, to wait for everything to sync every 3 minutes along my racial (berserking). So Ascendance would be on spam, Primal Fire elemental glyphed would delay 30seconds after the initial pull to be reused and Feral spirit and/or Elemental Mastery delay 1 minute! This felt really underpowered in WoD though.

 

A middle solution was to use everything in sync with Feral Spirit and Elemental MAstery. So every 2 mins these two would be spammed and Ascendance would delay 1 minute after the first use (along Berserking) and be used again on the 4th minute in the fight. Fire elemental unglyphed would delay just 1 minute inside the fight (so it would be used again on 6th instead of 5th minute) And so on.

 

But what if i had Lucky Double-sided coin or the Scales of doom trinket? Would everything go on hold till a trinket procs? What is your opinion about it? 

 

 

And more questions!

 

Does multistrike affect our Magma totem,  Fire nova, , Liquid Magma and any of our pets's attacks (basic attacks , skill attacks). Talking about Fire elemental , Primal Fire elemental, Feral Spirit, Storm elemental ?

 

Weapon Enchants : Mark of warsong.(the haste enchant)  Considering most players are still below 30% haste buffed (some are there with Ancestral swiftness) wouldn't 1 Mark of warsong be really fine? Even with the new haste buff from blizzard i am sure many shamans would be in less than 50% haste with Ancestral Swiftness, 2 x Marks of warsong. The only annoying thing when i tried those enchants was the irregular rotation timing when they proc-ed. As haste affects our GCDs and CDs on our main basic rotation, timing of the skill CDs would significantly change thus having to be way more focused on rotation timings instead of fight mechanics .

 

Hardcasting Lightning bolt when everything is on cd. Difference in overall dps if doing it or not? I do refuse to do it

Edited January 18, 2015 by Voskopoula

[Magnus 0]

I don't understand your sentence.

 

two min period (my observation)

 

RT = 1min up time 60 total heals (30 ticks) ~250K healing

AG= 10s up to time 75-100k healing

 

AG is burst healing but isn't RT in general better in a raid since it would compliment healer Aoe heals more consistently? I like AG just wish the CD was a bit shorter (30s).

[Voskopoula 1]

two min period (my observation)

 

RT = 1min up time 60 total heals (30 ticks) ~250K healing

AG= 10s up to time 75-100k healing

 

AG is burst healing but isn't RT in general better in a raid since it would compliment healer Aoe heals more consistently? I like AG just wish the CD was a bit shorter (30s).

 

Edited January 20, 2015 by Voskopoula

[Voskopoula 1]

Quote is bugged to my browser or i did something wrong.

 

Anyway

In what circumstances AG is still awesome : On aoe situations where you want to help your healer. Examples

 

1)  Kargath Bladefist Mythic if you are in Stands group  (where you should be in this fight as top aoer).

2) Imperator HC and up, if your healers dont have many cds, you need to aoe burst the adds of the transitions down and at last phase with the arcane remnants.

3) Tectus hc/mythic ,  especially when Motes start doing their aoe damage

 

It won't solo heal the situation of course! but it will help your healers's mana quite a lot.

And these are just few examples , i am still on my first morning coffee . 

 

[Guest Grey]

Please add the new 680 alchemy trinket to the list of BiS, I have a feeling it could be better than any trinket you can get in H BRF. Thank you.

[Guest xXShamanXx]

Question - if you have the Tier 17 bonus, would Echo of the Elements win out in that talent tier due to the increased ability to spam Stormstrike, and therefore further reduce the CD on Feral Spirits?

 

Thoughts?

Echo of Elements brings only one time Stormstrike more. So you will reduce the CD on Feral Spirits only by 5 seconds. But if you accidentely skip Stormstrike in your rotation, you dont loose that cooldownreduce.

[Guest crippz]

How can Echo of the Elements be better than Ancestral Swiftness for Single-target DPS? It gives you just 1 Stormstrike and 1 Lava Lash more (if you dont have any downtime attacking the boss so 2 charges can be recharged meanwhile). How can this be better than 5% Haste (which lowers the cooldown of Stormstrike and Lava Lash) and gives you an instant Lightning Bolt timed with your Unleash Elements buff?

 

What am I missing or am I just really dumb? Please can someone explain to me, why I should take Echo for Gruul or Butcher?

[Voskopoula 1]

 

 

If one weapon of your two weapons does higher damage than the other, use it as your off-hand weapon, as the combined damage (melee attacks + abilities) you get from your off-hand weapon is usually higher than what you get from your main-hand weapon.

 

Omg when did that happen?

So i downloaded the latest of latest of simcraft (18 march) and by my surprise on the typical patchwerk style battle at options!

 

 

Echo /Primal Elementalist /Storm Elemental talents

685 Main hand,  670 off hand weapon patchwerk result 34986 dps

670 Main hand,  685 off hand weapon patchwerk result 35040 dps!  

 

Then i thought that i gotta check what happens in AoE situations 

 

Echo / UF/ Liquid magma Talents

670 Main hand,  685 off hand weapon patchwerk style 5 targets ,    104117 dps, 35202 dps to main target

685 Main hand,  670 off hand weapon patchwerk style 5 targets ,    104153 dps, 35231 dps to main target

 

.... the differences on 15ilvl weapon difference are ridiculous but i did expect stronger results for stronger main hand..

 

For me this is kinda stupid, I would expect situational better results in pvp where burst and lava lash is very good (bypassing armor etc) but this seems like a design flaw, to have stronger weapons in offhand..

 

 

Another thing that i read on simulation craft changes

 

 

• Shaman
  • Improved lava lash in-game is now cloning flame shocks with unleash flame and elemental fusion

Whaaat!

"because  Lava Lash spread Flame Shock to other targets without the damage buff from Unleash Elements (i.e., if you have an Unleash Elements-buffed Flame Shock on a target, you will get a normal Flame Shock on nearby enemies after using Lava Lash)."

 

So i went to my garrison's two targets, i first used lava lash minor glyph (noFS spread) , removed all gear and trinkets except the 2 weapons, just to be sure i wont write wrong numbers

I talented for Elemental fusion ofc.

 

 

                                      Primary Target                     Secondary Target 

FlameShock                       441 Dot                                    none

UE+FS                                618   (140% of FS confirmed)

1EF+FS                              617   (140% of FS confirmed) 

2EF+FS                              794    (180% of FS confirmed)

2EF+UE+FS                      1111    (251%! of FS confirmed)*

 

*   tested it 1000 times, seems the 2EF+UE are multiplying each other, so it,s 180% x 180% = 251%!) Same thing happens with 1EF+UE, they multiply each other 140% x 140% = 196% )

 

 

removed minor lava lash glyph , added lava lash major glyph to be sure i spread the shock 100%

It does get spreaded BUFFED!

 

                                  Primary Target                     Secondary Target 

FlameShock                       441 Dot                                   441

UE+FS                                618                                         617 

1EF+FS                              617                                         617

2EF+FS                              794                                         794                     

2EF+UE+FS                      1111                                       1111                  

 

How did i check it,  simply checking at combat log and seeing 2 new entries of dots being added always (sometimes they were different, criticals) but most of times 2 identical flameshock damage were being added)

 

So now the hard part, i had to check if lava lash will spread an inferior flameshock over the superior one.

 

So i throw a 2EF+UE+FS on main target, wait for lava lash to reset and throw one ll more,

i get 2x 1111 dots.

Check 1 :  then i cast flameshock on main target the dot went down to 441

Check 2 :  i then cast lava lash and the secondary target got it's dot down to 441 too

 

Outcome

1) Flameshock will spread with lava lash as  buffed either with Unleash elements or Elemental Fury or any combination of both (UE+EF then FS, UE+EFx2 then FS, EFx2+UE then FS ) then lava lash. Both targets or more targets (didnt check on more than 2 but i guess it works for many) will get the buffed version of Flameshock you applied last , before the lava lash spreaded it.

2) Except from flameshock renewall, Lava Lash unfortunately will spread inferior flameshock from the main target over superior flameshocks on targets around. Same applies for flameshock on main target of course, if you throw a less buffed or unbuffed flameshock it will renew timer on the target and will update to inferior dot.

 

Perhaps the second result i had , all dot-ers know it, i didnt . dont troll me for that. However the first result is surprisingly logical and i dont know when they fixed it.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Voskopoula

[Guest Razadeodio]

excuse me, but why use lava lash before flame shock?

[Voskopoula 1]

just for the sake of using and testing elemental fusion on dummies.

 

normally if you spec Elemental Fusion you will want to attack from far with flameshock and then throw 2 lava lashes (spreading a bad unbuffed flameshock at start) however with 2 3 4 flameshocks ticking lava lash will renew fast and used after an unleash elements and flameshock will create a super buffed flameshock which then will be sent to other targets with another lava lash.

 

 i did some maidens hc tonight and it was pretty funny  that at few tries i used  Elemental Fusion with unleash elements  and 2x lava lash buffs was on par in dps with liquid magma talent on the 3 maidens..

Edited March 23, 2015 by Voskopoula

[kamakazi008 0]

What weapon is better for my main hand. I have Sorka's Chain fist which is Heroic wf (691) and Phemos' Double Slasher which is mythic with a socket (685) and i really dont know which is better pls help

[Voskopoula 1]

seems now days 691 must go to offhand, but differences are small

[Derienn 5]

I ran some simulations and the scale factors came out to be:

 

Elemental Mastery/Primal Elementalist/Storm Elemental

1. Agility (6.82)
2. Haste (3.41)
3. Multistrike (3.04)
4. Versatility (2.94)
5. Mastery (2.89)
6. Critical Strike (2.85)

Elemental Mastery/Primal Elementalist/Liquid Magma

1. Agility (6.84)
2. Haste (3.51)
3. Multistrike (3.03)
4. Versatility (2.89)
5. Mastery (2.88)
6. Critical Strike (2.84)

Ancestral Swiftness/Unleashed Fury/Liquid Magma

1. Agility (6.91)
2. Haste (3.71)
3. Multistrike (3.06)
4. Versatility (2.91) = Mastery (2.91)
5. Critical Strike (2.86)

This seems to be completely contradictory to the stat priority list from the guide, moving Mastery really low. Is there a reason for stacking Mastery? I have never had it rank higher than equal to Versatility, apart from 2+ targets where it surpasses other stats while playing with Liquid Magma.

 

Do you think that this is enough for the Haste/Multistrike maces from Hans&Franz to outshine the Haste/Mastery fist weapons with a visible results? I am now thinking in the terms of Gruul/Oregorger/Hans&Franz/Beastlord Mythic progress.

 

EDIT:

 

I missed one thing. The value of Versatility weakens compared to that of Mastery when movement is involved. So that's another downside to Versatility. But Multistrike seems to be the go-to stat for single target.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Derienn

[Damien 1,514]

Please add the new 680 alchemy trinket to the list of BiS, I have a feeling it could be better than any trinket you can get in H BRF. Thank you.

 

I'm on it

 

How can Echo of the Elements be better than Ancestral Swiftness for Single-target DPS? It gives you just 1 Stormstrike and 1 Lava Lash more (if you dont have any downtime attacking the boss so 2 charges can be recharged meanwhile). How can this be better than 5% Haste (which lowers the cooldown of Stormstrike and Lava Lash) and gives you an instant Lightning Bolt timed with your Unleash Elements buff?

 

What am I missing or am I just really dumb? Please can someone explain to me, why I should take Echo for Gruul or Butcher?

You should probably take Elemental Mastery for these fights, but why Echo is better than Ancestral Swiftness all comes down to the fact that theory crafters found that in SimC Echo performs better than Ancestral Swiftness.

 

 

excuse me, but why use lava lash before flame shock?

 

Because otherwise you run the risk of resetting the cooldown of Lava Lash before you had a chance to spend it.

 

I ran some simulations and the scale factors came out to be:

 

Elemental Mastery/Primal Elementalist/Storm Elemental

• Agility (6.82)
• Haste (3.41)
• Multistrike (3.04)
• Versatility (2.94)
• Mastery (2.89)
• Critical Strike (2.85)

Elemental Mastery/Primal Elementalist/Liquid Magma

• Agility (6.84)
• Haste (3.51)
• Multistrike (3.03)
• Versatility (2.89)
• Mastery (2.88)
• Critical Strike (2.84)

Ancestral Swiftness/Unleashed Fury/Liquid Magma

• Agility (6.91)
• Haste (3.71)
• Multistrike (3.06)
• Versatility (2.91) = Mastery (2.91)
• Critical Strike (2.86)

This seems to be completely contradictory to the stat priority list from the guide, moving Mastery really low. Is there a reason for stacking Mastery? I have never had it rank higher than equal to Versatility, apart from 2+ targets where it surpasses other stats while playing with Liquid Magma.

 

Do you think that this is enough for the Haste/Multistrike maces from Hans&Franz to outshine the Haste/Mastery fist weapons with a visible results? I am now thinking in the terms of Gruul/Oregorger/Hans&Franz/Beastlord Mythic progress.

 

EDIT:

 

I missed one thing. The value of Versatility weakens compared to that of Mastery when movement is involved. So that's another downside to Versatility. But Multistrike seems to be the go-to stat for single target.

What character did you sim?