Confidor

Rogues dying out?

11 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

 

I've after about 3 years of not playing, Ive come back and Im quite disheartened by what rogues have become. We have 3 specs that primarily do the same thing which is pure damge in one way or another.

 

Ive been doing alot of reading on here and other well known sites, Ive come to the conclusion that rogues just arent doing what we should be doing which is pure damage in boss fights (also control and interupts on others)

 

Looking at this site http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankingsthe DPS for ilvl 630 rogues, 2 out of the 3 specs are in the bottom 3 while sub pulls in at 10th at 19,584 DPS. At the top is unholy DK at 21,486 DPS.

 

Hybrid classes are out DPSing us. I primarily play combat Rogue and according to the site I should be hitting 16.7k at ilvl 630 when I can just hit around 11-12k on my garrison dummy. However the site doesnt say if these tests are done with full enchants and/or raid buffed. I could be doing something wrong but Im unsure.

 

What do you guys think? Are rogues a dying class or will Blizzard tweak us to be more relivant because as I see it being a Pure Dps class I believe we should be at least 2-3k Dps higher then 2nd.

 

 

.

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I started playing at the beginning of MoP and always heard about the "hybrid tax" and how pure DPS classes had an edge. I know Blizz have tried to balance everyone and never done a great job, but I don't think it's that terrible.

 

I keep seeing a lot of people comparing the Noxxic charts and SimDPS numbers and saying how terrible rogues are now.

 

The fact is, simulations are usually best case scenarios. I raided SoO for a year and very quickly noticed that different classes excel in different situations. Some mechanics will impact certain classes more than others. Some fights will be better for some classes.

 

If every fight in every raid and dungeon was a static, single-target fight, it would be easy to balance every class. When fights have movement and there are mechanics that affect players' ability to DPS the boss, things change.

 

The Noxxic rankings show assassination at 16k in 630 gear, and 21k in 666. I've been doing ~20k on most bosses in HC dungeons in 633 gear, and missing some enchants. I also haven't been using flasks, potions, or food.

 

I also do 11-12k on a garrison dummy.

 

Basically, ignore rankings. Go into dungeons and raids and if you're not keeping up with everyone else, then you can start to be concerned. Even if you're bottom of the meters, I wouldn't be overly worried unless you're doing half the DPS of everyone else. As long as you're killing things, not dying, moving out of stuff, using CC and defensives effectively, etc... you're doing better than a lot of players.

 

I don't think Blizzard is going to make the pure DPS classes highest DPS on purpose. They want every DPS spec to be viable, which basically means we suffer as a pure DPS melee class. We do have good survivability and decent DPS, and we should scale well with gear (usually better than a lot of other classes). 

 

You're also likely to see a lot more people bemoan the state of their class than those who are happy. The millions of rogue who are happy tend to be playing the game and enjoying it. It's the ones who have an issue that stop playing and head to the forums. Personally, I'm happy with where we're at right now, but I'm pretty easily pleased. I'm keeping up with everyone else I've been with in dungeons so far, and still using stuns, interrupts, and defensives, and that's as assassination.

 

With the cap on Blade Flurry being removed at level 100 (with one of the perks) combat should perform extremely well on heavy cleave fights once you can start gearing up. Might take a little while for raids to settle and everyone to get geared, but I think rogues will do okay

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Any current potential DPS rankings are useless at this point in time. The only thing they could be measuring is dummy or dungeon DPS by players wearing dungeon and PvP gear. There hasn't been any class balancing since the release. The raid instance isn't even available yet. Not to mention that if you've spent any time with this class since the Wrath expansion, you'd know that Combat spec is very weapon/trinket dependent, and Subtlety scales better than most classes near the end of expansions due to inflated crit/haste percentages.

 

If you're the player that re-rolls every time MaxDPS puts out a new chart, I guess it's time to switch, at least until next week when the ranks change. Alternatively, you could focus on a class and excel, beating all of the players who switched to the flavour of the week class and have no idea what they are doing.

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I played vanilla until the end of BC in a hardcore raiding guild topping most boss fights, however due to work committments i had to quit wow for another day just so happens that was a 3 year break (Was coming on and off but nothing sustainable or even close to raiding like I once was). Coming back alot has changed and Ive finally worked out my keybindings but I was just surprised after being linked that website I was below average or that the class seems that. 

 

Do I re-roll everytime Maxdps puts out a new chart no... Ive got 3 classes above lvl 70 Priest, Rogue and Hunter. Just interesting that the power house the rogue class once had in PvE has shifted. PvP they seem fine as the Control, Peel annoyance class that has the potiental to burst you down if your not prepared. Sub spec is now viable in PvE and is now the best which is great as it use to be a PvP gimmick exclusive.

 

I know that its early to tell where everyone is going to sit DPS wise but being on the front lines where its alot more tricky then say a warlock at range spamming there rotations then say a rogue dodging, weaving in and out of melee range and potiential danger I just thought we would be ranked alot higher then we are atm.

 

I do appreciate all the feedback and take it on board and see how this all plays out. 

Edited by Confidor

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Recently, snapshotting has been removed, which contributed to a lot of caster DPS as far as I know (I never played a caster but raided with a few warlocks who would routinely line up casts with big trinket procs for huge numbers). DoTs are still affected by procs, of course, but only for the duration of the proc. It somewhat narrows the gap between an average player and an above-average player.

 

I think a lot of instants have been removed for casters, too, so that there's more of a penalty for moving.

 

Melee DPS still have a problem when they can't be in melee range, but once Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry have opened, and we can see all the fights and how they work for ranged and melee, we'll have a better idea where everyone stands.

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Melee DPS still have a problem when they can't be in melee range, but once Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry have opened, and we can see all the fights and how they work for ranged and melee, we'll have a better idea where everyone stands.

 

A decent number of the fights have enforced downtime, which lends an advantage to Sub - re-applying bleeds before a knockback etc is really strong, especially when Rupture does so much damage

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I haven't done Highmaul yet, but in every heroic dungeon I've been in, I've had the best single-target DPS in the group as Assassination. My multi-target DPS isn't great (Combat should be better for that) but I still usually come at or near the top of the damage chart at the end of a heroic. Don't discount the benefits of our defensive and movement skills, either. A Rogue that's played correctly can avoid and soak a lot of damage without losing a lot of DPS uptime, especially with the right glyph and talent choices.

 

People have been worried that Rogues are a dying class since Burning Crusade. My main has been a Rogue since early vanilla, and while there have been some times where we've had some issues, I've never felt like things were so bad for us that playing a Rogue wasn't viable, and I'm definitely not feeling anything like that right now.

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Heroics dont mean to much as burst is pretty much king. A fight needs to last to get a better average so say a fight around 8-15 minutes. Did my first Highmaul today. I started on Tectus as Oce servers were having alot of issues so I wasnt waiting around and went to the gym and therefore I missed bosses. We didnt down him but I was one of the lowest DPS. Alot of moving around dodging pillars, red trails ect so alot of downtime.

 

My only really shining moment was when tectus split into 4 and blade flurry started to do work but still wasnt able to contend. As you may have guessed Im specced combat and I really want to make it work, I also found out that My UI isnt quite optimal as I dont have all the information in front of me regarding KS, AR, SnD and others which I'll play around tomorrow and see what I can come up with. The other rogue in my guild did quite well top 3 I beleive while I was around 6-7th maybe lower I cant recall.

 

Tectus quite and interesting and fun fight to be honest very hectic fight

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Heroics dont mean to much as burst is pretty much king. A fight needs to last to get a better average so say a fight around 8-15 minutes. Did my first Highmaul today. I started on Tectus as Oce servers were having alot of issues so I wasnt waiting around and went to the gym and therefore I missed bosses. We didnt down him but I was one of the lowest DPS. Alot of moving around dodging pillars, red trails ect so alot of downtime.

 

My only really shining moment was when tectus split into 4 and blade flurry started to do work but still wasnt able to contend. As you may have guessed Im specced combat and I really want to make it work, I also found out that My UI isnt quite optimal as I dont have all the information in front of me regarding KS, AR, SnD and others which I'll play around tomorrow and see what I can come up with. The other rogue in my guild did quite well top 3 I beleive while I was around 6-7th maybe lower I cant recall.

 

Tectus quite and interesting and fun fight to be honest very hectic fight

 

Yeah I think Tectus is great haha. I agree once he splits the second time into the groups of 4 that Combat really would shine, but its single target dps isn't enough to compete with Sub. I'll get to those WeakAuras for you tonight Confidor - some real life drama picked up, so I didn't have time with all of it and raids starting. Sorry.

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Thanks Carrn, Hope all the drama works itself out, Your a blessing to the rogue community and appreiate all the work you do for us.

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Thanks Carrn, Hope all the drama works itself out, Your a blessing to the rogue community and appreiate all the work you do for us.

 

That's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me! wub.png

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