Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Would like the opinion of rogues much better than me.

3 posts in this topic

Now as i have run into this debate with many rogues that have asked me for advice on how to improve there dps from many different specs i have not been able to give a good answer. i have been playing since vanilla but am only casual so i don't have all the answers. 


*On a side note. all of these assumptions are for people who play solo or are just in casual social guild who don't raid or do mythic dungeons. Yes these people are far more common that a lot of people seem to believe. 


My typical first step is to look over there gear. and most people have the same issue. no tier, no trinkets, only baneful / lfr gear. and most of them have been sub spec. 


so first question id like you all to help me with. 


Is it even worth playing sub until you have your normal 4 set and soul cap?


I have been telling people no simply because i have never seen it done EVER. however im only casual so i dont know 100% myself. i play under the assumption that combat and assassination are going to give far better results simply because its a much simpler rotation for people. is my assumption correct here or am i a noob myself?


Next part is what i just mentioned. i have been suggesting people to swap specs and work towards the gear they need to start preforming better with the better single target specs. such as normal raid content, not heroic.  


I usually suggest going combat to start since its the easier spec to learn in my opinion and working on clearing normal for the basic gear. starting on some trinkets and tier. 


Question here is that really the easiest way to go about it? some people HATE when others try to tell them how to play. But if you ask for the simplest way would this not be the best way to go? Is there an even simpler way to go about it that i'm completely missing?


And here is the question about the hated PVP gear. personally i have no idea why people hate this gear so much on some classes. my hunter, rogue, warlock are all full pvp gear except trinkets. and they all do exceptional numbers on normal and they are all right on the base minimum requirement for heroic (which i believe is around 45k min.) 


So i have been telling people to Try and pvp for the upgrades they need. and as long as they follow the stat priorities listed here on the site that it should carry them easily through normal. assuming they were lower than full empowered baneful gear of course.

Do you think that for at least rogues is a easy way to gear up for normal raids? and get most of the stats you need?


And finally the mythic dungeons. people seem to think that they are the same as heroic and will run in there with not even 650 ilvl and literally do nothing, I have been tying to explain to people that you should at least have mostly upgraded baneful gear (not the item upgrade that you buy with valor, just the Rng upgrade chance when you identify the gear / use the token on it.) and know how to play your basic spec before entering these.


I get laughed at alot for this for some reason but everyone seems to think that there is a fleet of nice helpful random people perfectly willing to carry people through them. in truth they mostly piss people off. if someone tried to waist my time like that id leave instantly unless i knew what i was going into before hand. 


Question here is am i right to assume that people should at least have id say roughly 685 gear and know how to play the spec? i know i expect alot but i assume anyone who is trying to do this actually WANTS to make progress. not just shuffle around and stagnate. 


Also im sure sure all of these are answered in other topics but i don't have a lot of time to go search through forums to find all the answer's. Any and all input would be nice here i am not looking for people to tell me i'm right. i actually want to know if i'm wrong. the idea of this post is to kinda help guide people who want to do endgame but don't know the way.


*Last note. Sorry if this is all jumbled and out of order. i will fix it up if i get the Help im looking for. 


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me see if I can get this straight - it's a hell of a wallpost lol.


My 2 cents:


1. Yes and no. Yes because even without gear - not doing exceptional numbers - you still training with the spec. Sub is a really complicated spec, and if you wanna play it in a future ahead with some decent gear, you should start playing every now and then. As for no, this game is a party-based game. Playing with something that you aren't optimized for can be frustrating for you and others. Nobody likes to be hindered (as you stated later in your text) - pick your moments accordingly.


2. Perhaps Asn is an easier spec than Combat. Combat without haste gear is rather boring since it takes a good while for you to hit stuff AND got some passive buff meddling to get off the most of it. As for the hate feeling I believe they'll hate if they're being piloted. If they're suggested something and you raise points to why your suggestion is attractive (and let them do what they want), you won't be hated - at least if the person you're dealing with are reasonable enough to listen to someone more experienced and not just splurt some crap just to discredit you - which is... fairly common.


3. IMHO it's a historic issue. PvP gear had Res on it, which is an useless stat in PvE (and would occupy a 2nd stat that would be more useful). Nowadays, arguing over this is bullshit. Yes, won't be powerful as PvE tiers, but hell - getting insta 700 and ready to slap normal bosses... yeah, I'll take that. For some specs isn't that good because the itemization won't help, but for others it just work wonders.


4. Again, yes and no. People can be casual and think they're somewhat ready for progression. It's normal, be ready for that.


That's it. I'm half asleep, so... take it with a grain of salt. smile.png

Edited by lipsinch

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you really want to practice it, wait until you get the 4 set since that changes the way you play fairly significantly. However, Assassination will still be its equal in damage until you get Soul Cap


If a Rogue is struggling with their spec, they should be playing Sin and Combat. Sin for fights with 1-2 targets, and Combat for every other fight. Unfortunately I can't recommend anything else; Rogues need to be able to play both of these to be effective members of a raid.


PvP gear is just fine for raiding - it's 700 (or 710) ilevel, and is an easy way to get numbers. However, the PvP Trinkets and Set Bonuses are generally very very bad compared to their PvE counterparts, so you should always prefer PvE gear for those slots (plus the legendary Ring) if possible. 


For Normal Hellfire progression, you can get away with a group full of 670-680 people, especially for the first few bosses. Other than that, you can still be clearing Heroic BRF for more loot and good set bonuses

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Dyldoe
      So right now I play Sub as my main spec. I mained outlaw for the first week or so of Legion and honestly I hated sub (not sure why) but after I tried it, it is now my preferred spec among the 3. I know that sub scales the best with gear and is the most superior spec around 870ilv too. I never see sub in pve and usually outlaw/sin mainly (for mythic+ and raids) so I was wondering if I am doing anything wrong?
      For my talents, I use weaponmaster as it is very good for aoe pulls (I can pull about 400k dps on 3-4 targets) then followed by the traditional talents for pve sub (I go master of subtlety for raids) 
      I know my stats are not the best for sub as I need to get more mastery/vers rather than haste (crit is still pretty good if i'm correct)
      I couldn't spec into Akaari's Soul as it breaks cc in pvp with means I loose a hefty amount of dps which is very annoying and I am debating to repsec into it and put up with it in pvp for the extra dps increase.
      My weapon pathing looks like this:
      I seem to be doing everything correctly for dps but I do about 250-300k dps on single target and stays about 200k the whole time. Sometimes can go up to 350-400k depending on how smooth the fight goes but if it's anything to do with my weapon/talents/ilv/stats and even playstyle then please let me know, thanks!
      Edit: I have respecced my weapon to now look like this: 
      I should be doing better now ^^ Appreciate the help 
    • By NotYetRated
      Hey all,
      Loooong time lurker here, I just had to make a post about the various talent combo's you can take as an Assassination Rogue. Bleed/Poison, EP or MP or things like Exsang or Agonizing.
      I'm currently:        39% crit / 14% Haste / 90% Mastery. I know that haste is like almost useless on Sin rogue but I'm just gearing up (854ilvl).
      Now the thing is, I'm currently running MP and Exsang and can get around 275k-290k steady DPS (on dummies that is). While I've tried the recommended EP and Agonizing build I get to around 300k for like 15 secs and then it dips into 265k to 250k.
      Now for my opener and rotation:
      Stealth > Garrote > Rupture > 2x Mutilate > Vendetta > Mutilate to 6 when not > Vanish > Rupture > Mutilate2x > Exsang > Envenom at 5/6 > Kingsbane.
      I refresh my Garrote and Rupture when they've run out for the Exsang to do it's thing. Otherwise I refresh them around 4 or so seconds. I use my CD's as soon as they come up except for Vendetta, I usually dump my energy fast and then Vendetta.
      How come I perform better with a supposedly worse build?
      Idk anything about posting logs and all that but my character is named Xinshi on VentureCo.
    • By HappyBandit
      ( excuse me for bad English speaking, not a native speaker)
      Hello fellow rogues! I had played rogue in 5.4~6.1 and stopped playing wow for months. Now I come back for Legion and have been leveling my rogue for around a week. After learning from Icy Veins' rogue guide I think I am okay for all 3 specs' basic, but I have some questions about rotation which I can't find answer in guides and recent legion rogue posts.
      I have questions in all 3 specs but I think that I will just make a post, 3 threads are too messy for the forum.
      Q1. agonizing poison
      In version 5.4~6.1 I know that it's important to pool high energy for 5cp envenom, so I can cast buffed mutilate as many as possible, utilizing the proc mechanism of poison. I assume that this is still important in legion when using deadly poison. My question is, when talanting agonizing poison how do I benefit from the same trick? Agonizing poison stacks and doesn't have a re-proc instant effect. Or I want to do this for maximum up-time and stacks for agonizing poison?
      Q2. Cooldowns' efficiency
      When rush or curse of the dreadblade is up, I know that some buffs have higher value than other in RtB, but making practical use of re-rolling for cooldown seems impractical. When curse-bursting I feel dry if I don't have rush or that energy recovery buff, and it feels suck being not able to pump out dat extra run throughs.
      Sometimes I really feel that it's okay to hold my cooldowns and fishing for a while, but obviously this idea may have problems. If I am not in 2-buff-situation or certain buff when AR or CotD is off cooldown, do I just roll once, stick to whatever I have and start bursting?
      Or, in normal rotation between bursting window I need to tactically re-roll and prepare the best situation for the next round of cooldowns' usage? RNGesus, it feels most difficult to excel outlaw compared to other 2.
      3. Shadow Blades
      How can I get the most out from this 15-second buff? As long as I am in melee range, the auto attack shadow damage seems like a constant part regardless of rotations. For the extra cp in cp generating skills, my instinct is to squeeze 2 dances into SB and repeatedly cast SS-SS-finisher combo. The finishers of subtlety hit really hard so I want to cast as many as I can, but since SB makes all cp generating skills equally get 1 extra cp, if I spam SS rather than backstab, I will span less GCDs in cp builders. I can cast 3 cp SS and get more finishers, or cast 2 cp BS for more cp generated from SB window. Both seems good in my eyes, but which one is the right idea?
      4. Shadow Dance's 3 charges
      The obvious idea is to save charges for important add/certain damage check/raid buffs/etc. My question is, how do I make the best use of this mechanism in single target fight without important raid mechanicams (training dummy for example)?. I just don't let it capped and that's it. Is it as easy as it looks or do I missed something? Maybe it should be spent in certain way for maximum master of subtlety buff? Or for good shadow blade synergy?
      Thanks for reading, any feedback and thoughts would be appreciated:).
    • By feiz
      Hello guys,
      I have a question regarding the stat priority in the newest assassination guide(for patch 7.03).
      How is versatility stronger than crit?
      you get 0.91% CRit per 100 crit rating and 0.77% versatility per 100 versatility rating. This results in a flat 0.91% dmg increase (disregarding the benefits of more combopoints, just the flat double damage bonus) for crit and 0,77% dmg bonus for versatility without further bonuses. Am I missing something? Did my testing result in wrong Percent-per-Rating-Values?
      Thanks for any help.