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Would like the opinion of rogues much better than me.

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Now as i have run into this debate with many rogues that have asked me for advice on how to improve there dps from many different specs i have not been able to give a good answer. i have been playing since vanilla but am only casual so i don't have all the answers. 


*On a side note. all of these assumptions are for people who play solo or are just in casual social guild who don't raid or do mythic dungeons. Yes these people are far more common that a lot of people seem to believe. 


My typical first step is to look over there gear. and most people have the same issue. no tier, no trinkets, only baneful / lfr gear. and most of them have been sub spec. 


so first question id like you all to help me with. 


Is it even worth playing sub until you have your normal 4 set and soul cap?


I have been telling people no simply because i have never seen it done EVER. however im only casual so i dont know 100% myself. i play under the assumption that combat and assassination are going to give far better results simply because its a much simpler rotation for people. is my assumption correct here or am i a noob myself?


Next part is what i just mentioned. i have been suggesting people to swap specs and work towards the gear they need to start preforming better with the better single target specs. such as normal raid content, not heroic.  


I usually suggest going combat to start since its the easier spec to learn in my opinion and working on clearing normal for the basic gear. starting on some trinkets and tier. 


Question here is that really the easiest way to go about it? some people HATE when others try to tell them how to play. But if you ask for the simplest way would this not be the best way to go? Is there an even simpler way to go about it that i'm completely missing?


And here is the question about the hated PVP gear. personally i have no idea why people hate this gear so much on some classes. my hunter, rogue, warlock are all full pvp gear except trinkets. and they all do exceptional numbers on normal and they are all right on the base minimum requirement for heroic (which i believe is around 45k min.) 


So i have been telling people to Try and pvp for the upgrades they need. and as long as they follow the stat priorities listed here on the site that it should carry them easily through normal. assuming they were lower than full empowered baneful gear of course.

Do you think that for at least rogues is a easy way to gear up for normal raids? and get most of the stats you need?


And finally the mythic dungeons. people seem to think that they are the same as heroic and will run in there with not even 650 ilvl and literally do nothing, I have been tying to explain to people that you should at least have mostly upgraded baneful gear (not the item upgrade that you buy with valor, just the Rng upgrade chance when you identify the gear / use the token on it.) and know how to play your basic spec before entering these.


I get laughed at alot for this for some reason but everyone seems to think that there is a fleet of nice helpful random people perfectly willing to carry people through them. in truth they mostly piss people off. if someone tried to waist my time like that id leave instantly unless i knew what i was going into before hand. 


Question here is am i right to assume that people should at least have id say roughly 685 gear and know how to play the spec? i know i expect alot but i assume anyone who is trying to do this actually WANTS to make progress. not just shuffle around and stagnate. 


Also im sure sure all of these are answered in other topics but i don't have a lot of time to go search through forums to find all the answer's. Any and all input would be nice here i am not looking for people to tell me i'm right. i actually want to know if i'm wrong. the idea of this post is to kinda help guide people who want to do endgame but don't know the way.


*Last note. Sorry if this is all jumbled and out of order. i will fix it up if i get the Help im looking for. 


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Let me see if I can get this straight - it's a hell of a wallpost lol.


My 2 cents:


1. Yes and no. Yes because even without gear - not doing exceptional numbers - you still training with the spec. Sub is a really complicated spec, and if you wanna play it in a future ahead with some decent gear, you should start playing every now and then. As for no, this game is a party-based game. Playing with something that you aren't optimized for can be frustrating for you and others. Nobody likes to be hindered (as you stated later in your text) - pick your moments accordingly.


2. Perhaps Asn is an easier spec than Combat. Combat without haste gear is rather boring since it takes a good while for you to hit stuff AND got some passive buff meddling to get off the most of it. As for the hate feeling I believe they'll hate if they're being piloted. If they're suggested something and you raise points to why your suggestion is attractive (and let them do what they want), you won't be hated - at least if the person you're dealing with are reasonable enough to listen to someone more experienced and not just splurt some crap just to discredit you - which is... fairly common.


3. IMHO it's a historic issue. PvP gear had Res on it, which is an useless stat in PvE (and would occupy a 2nd stat that would be more useful). Nowadays, arguing over this is bullshit. Yes, won't be powerful as PvE tiers, but hell - getting insta 700 and ready to slap normal bosses... yeah, I'll take that. For some specs isn't that good because the itemization won't help, but for others it just work wonders.


4. Again, yes and no. People can be casual and think they're somewhat ready for progression. It's normal, be ready for that.


That's it. I'm half asleep, so... take it with a grain of salt. smile.png

Edited by lipsinch

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If you really want to practice it, wait until you get the 4 set since that changes the way you play fairly significantly. However, Assassination will still be its equal in damage until you get Soul Cap


If a Rogue is struggling with their spec, they should be playing Sin and Combat. Sin for fights with 1-2 targets, and Combat for every other fight. Unfortunately I can't recommend anything else; Rogues need to be able to play both of these to be effective members of a raid.


PvP gear is just fine for raiding - it's 700 (or 710) ilevel, and is an easy way to get numbers. However, the PvP Trinkets and Set Bonuses are generally very very bad compared to their PvE counterparts, so you should always prefer PvE gear for those slots (plus the legendary Ring) if possible. 


For Normal Hellfire progression, you can get away with a group full of 670-680 people, especially for the first few bosses. Other than that, you can still be clearing Heroic BRF for more loot and good set bonuses

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