Survival Hunter 7.3

[Azortharion 60]

No, Mastery for BRF demo locks was better because it increased the damage of the primarily used damaging abilities more than other stats did, per point. 

Versatility is better for Survival because the flat damage increase to all abilities works out to more damage than the extra Mongoose Bites from Mastery would give you.

Versatility is like, twice as good as Mastery, SV Mastery is one of the worst secondary stats the game has ever had for any spec.

[Redragebar 0]

I would assume that part of it is largely the mechanics of Mongoose itself. The mastery does not really mesh well with the pooling of charges. The simulation is going to show what stats work best, and even outside that you really have a burst damage period when you unload all your Mongoose charges, and as such, it makes sense that stats that increase damage reliably during that part of the rotation will be the best. That said, numbers don't lie. 

[Icedge 0]

I've got a question on the T18 set 4 piece bonus (MB has a chance to reset the cooldown of lacerate): is it any relevant on ST? I get that you want to dot multiple enemies if you can, but its practically worthless on ST if it pandemics normally. Or does its dmg stack like ignite? I just wondered cause there is no section or comment on refreshing lacerate in the guide other than "cast it" in the priority list.
Which leads me to another question: should you always cast it when it is off cooldown (like it is technically stated in the rotation list)? This doesnt make sense if it pandemics like most dots and even without the set bonus becomes relevant after a few uses since its cooldown doesnt align with its duration.
I'd be happy to have some clarification on the topic and there might be a way to communicate the use better in the guide, in case someone else wonders when reading it.

Thanks in advance.

[Arrawnn 2]

For those of you using WotM, how are you fitting it into your rotation? When do you start it? Do you hit RSx4 when you do, or add a couple at a time?

[Guest aureus]

The description of Expert Trapper in the build section doesn't match the ability's tooltip -- the tooltip appears to state that it only increases the damage Explosive Trap deals to the enemy that triggers it.  If so, at best this talent would work out to 262.5% AP damage to a single target every 15 seconds, assuming the player is following the recommended build from the guide.

Is this really the best choice for the tier?  Spitting Cobra does less average dps on its own but the increased focus generation would allow 1.8 extra flanking strikes or 2.25 extra caves per minute.  Assuming you have the GCDs to spare to avoid capping your focus without significantly altering your rotation, Spitting Cobra should be better for both single target and multi target.

Math Section:

Expert Trapper: +262.5% AP damage every 15 sec, or 17.5% AP per sec.

Spitting Cobra: +300% AP and +1.8 Flanking Strike every 60 sec.

=  (5% AP + 9% weapon damage  + 9.684%) AP per sec

= 23.684% AP + 9% base weapon damage per sec

[Azortharion 60]

I have fixed the mistake.

Yes, it is better.

EDIT: Removed wrong bs from my reply.

 

 

The sim gains 4 Flanking Strikes over a 2:40 - 4 minute fight, roughly as you'd expect.

[Guest Kacey]

I will say this is the WORST guide for survival and it's just made by someone who probably hasn't played more than an hour as survival.
I will say right now that this rotation is wrong and you don't mention the hardest hitting spells, you also say you should use flanking strike!

I've been playing survival in my 690 gear and I'm doing around 30-50k dps and Ive tried talents and different rotations and the only way to do a lot of dmg is to use steel trap for one and to use that, mongoosebite is also best used as a 'filler' with little to no focus and you should be using flanking strike on CD.

 

My rotation:
Throwing axes > Lacerate (keep this up) > Flanking Strike > Steel Trap > Dragonsfire grenade > Explosive trap > Lacerate > Flanking Strike > Raptor strike(sinlge)/carve(aoe) as a filler while none of your focus using spells are used and mongoosebite while you wait to generate focus. this might change according to gear, but right now it's the best rotation I've found. And that's after being the lowest geared in raids against MM hunters and BM hunter (and other classes ofc) and beating most of the ones that are more geared and better specs. As a mythic raider I dedicate myself to find the best rotations on either class I play and I will say this works the best for me as of today.
Some of the talents are still a bit so and so when it comes to DPS. 

Talents I go:
Throwing axes > Mortal vounds > Post haste > Steel Trap > Camouflage > Dragonsfire grenade > Expert Trapper

 

 

[Orthios 271]

44 minutes ago, Guest Kacey said:

I will say this is the WORST guide for survival and it's just made by someone who probably hasn't played more than an hour as survival.
I will say right now that this rotation is wrong and you don't mention the hardest hitting spells, you also say you should use flanking strike!

I've been playing survival in my 690 gear and I'm doing around 30-50k dps and Ive tried talents and different rotations and the only way to do a lot of dmg is to use steel trap for one and to use that, mongoosebite is also best used as a 'filler' with little to no focus and you should be using flanking strike on CD.

 

My rotation:
Throwing axes > Lacerate (keep this up) > Flanking Strike > Steel Trap > Dragonsfire grenade > Explosive trap > Lacerate > Flanking Strike > Raptor strike(sinlge)/carve(aoe) as a filler while none of your focus using spells are used and mongoosebite while you wait to generate focus. this might change according to gear, but right now it's the best rotation I've found. And that's after being the lowest geared in raids against MM hunters and BM hunter (and other classes ofc) and beating most of the ones that are more geared and better specs. As a mythic raider I dedicate myself to find the best rotations on either class I play and I will say this works the best for me as of today.
Some of the talents are still a bit so and so when it comes to DPS. 

Talents I go:
Throwing axes > Mortal vounds > Post haste > Steel Trap > Camouflage > Dragonsfire grenade > Expert Trapper

 

 

Alright, now go PROVE that your talents are better by showing your 10,000+ iterations of both talent setups.  If you fail to provide any support for your argument it will be considered null and void (aka, worthless).  Or if you can find top percentile non-cheese logs of players doing the same as what you suggest and doing significantly better than those following Azor's recommendations.

[timoseewho 0]

hey, great guide yet again

question about your opener, why isn't Lacerate up there seeing as it's one of the top priorities? also why isn't Dragonsfire Grenade further up in the opener?

thanks

[demonardvark 556]

so question, the suggested raiding setup is:

This build is an excellent starting point as a standard raid setup.

• Level 15:  Throwing Axes
• Level 30:  Snake Hunter
• Level 45:  Farstrider
• Level 60:  Improved Traps
• Level 75:  Ranger's Net
• Level 90:  Dragonsfire Grenade
• Level 100:  Expert Trapper

following this setup, I am following the rotation guide. What I'm noticing is raptor strike is completely omitted from the rotation. It's not listed at all and in the rotation page is only briefly mentioned if one takes the Way of Monk'Thal talent and or serpent sting. So, am I am to assume to not use raptor strike at all in single target? 

Last night i was derping around and found I have empty GCDs if i'm not sprinkling in raptor strike but then I'm sort of focused starved and the rotation gets messed up if I do. 

So, how is raptor strike supposed to be used rotationally? I believe its one of the first survival skills you get so it would seem strange for it to have no place in the rotation but its presence seems clunky. 

[Azortharion 60]

Your assumption is correct.

As long as you are not capping on focus, you are not wasting/losing anything. If you are capping on focus, use Flanking Strike more. If you are using Flanking Strike on cooldown and still focus capping, that's impossible, but if you broke the game, you can use Raptor Strike then.

[Kamiyadori 0]

17 hours ago, Guest Kacey said:

I've been playing survival in my 690 gear and I'm doing around 30-50k dps and Ive tried talents and different rotations and the only way to do a lot of dmg is to use steel trap for one and to use that, mongoosebite is also best used as a 'filler' with little to no focus and you should be using flanking strike on CD.

I'm doing pretty much the same damage with a gear around 680 :)

________________________________________________________________________________

I think in fights, where you have to move a lot Farstrider is a better choice than Posthaste, since it happened several times, that the boss was running away and i had to follow him with Harpoon on CD (okay, i could have used the Aspect but that one has a long CD) which ended in both Mok'Nathal Tactics and Mongoose Fury running out.

Also i think, Serpent Sting should deal more damage in single target fights than Dragonfire Grenade. Like for example vs Zakuun. Haven't done any playtesting, though. It's just an assumption :)

[demonardvark 556]

36 minutes ago, Azortharion said:

Your assumption is correct.

As long as you are not capping on focus, you are not wasting/losing anything. If you are capping on focus, use Flanking Strike more. If you are using Flanking Strike on cooldown and still focus capping, that's impossible, but if you broke the game, you can use Raptor Strike then.

well alright then, thanks :D. seems funny to leave that skill out but with a couple classes now you can arguably leave out mechanics or abilities, sooooo i'm rolling with it :D

also love the guide. playing in alphabeta i couldn't figure out survival and thought it was stupid, fell in love with it after reading guide and playing around with it. i feel switching from DK would be like cheating on my spouse after all this time, but survival hunter is def going to be my "main alt" :D

[Raejyn 0]

So, this seems like a general post about all things hunter... So, I'll ask here...

Where does Attack Power rate these days. I've gone over a lot of item weight posts and stat weights posts... No one seems to be mentions AP anymore, yet there are abilities and items that give bonus AP. Anyone know?

[Orthios 271]

5 minutes ago, Raejyn said:

So, this seems like a general post about all things hunter... So, I'll ask here...

Where does Attack Power rate these days. I've gone over a lot of item weight posts and stat weights posts... No one seems to be mentions AP anymore, yet there are abilities and items that give bonus AP. Anyone know?

1 AP is worth ~94% of 1 Agility, due to a passive where after level 50 you get 5% more Agility for wearing all Mail armor (which you should ALWAYS be doing).  

[DLanceTF 0]

What about knight's badge, it doesnt give any AGI, but it has a lot of vers and a crit proc just like Skull, have you ran simulations with it? I've noticed that vers has a really high impact on the dps.

[Azortharion 60]

It's nothing but a slightly weaker Skull.

[Guest Ganrokh]

I think the wording in the last paragraph under the tier 4 (level 60) talent choices in the spec, builds, talents, and pet talents section is a bit weird. The paragraph currently says "Caltrops is about as good as Improved Traps in simulations, but Improved Traps is much simpler to use and arguably enhances your utility even more in some situations. Therefore it is not recommended for any situation." The last sentence is a bit... contradictory.

[Orthios 271]

34 minutes ago, Guest Ganrokh said:

I think the wording in the last paragraph under the tier 4 (level 60) talent choices in the spec, builds, talents, and pet talents section is a bit weird. The paragraph currently says "Caltrops is about as good as Improved Traps in simulations, but Improved Traps is much simpler to use and arguably enhances your utility even more in some situations. Therefore it is not recommended for any situation." The last sentence is a bit... contradictory.

It is weird, but the "it" in the last sentence refers to Caltrops.  Nonetheless, it is quite confusing.

[Guest Kamiyadori]

Does anyone know from the testservers, what the CDs of the Aspects are if you have both the perk from the artifact and the legendary item, which reduce the CDs? Like wheter the legendary one reduces the Basic CD or the allready from the perk reduced CD.

I think/hope the eagle CD one should be around 45, so you can pretty much stack it with the artifact active skill.

[Azortharion 60]

Let me know if that is better.

[Guest Tasp]

So I see that you're putting versatility over crit, in the way that it'd do more damage, would you mind elaborating on that, because by my understanding 1% crit would equal to a 1% damage increase (1% chance of doing double damage, no?) where as 1% versatility also gives 1% more damage.

The thing I'm wondering about here is why would versa be the better stat more when you need ~110 points of crit for 1% while you need ~130 points of versatility for 1%?

[Guest Merdips]

 

1 hour ago, Guest Tasp said:

So I see that you're putting versatility over crit, in the way that it'd do more damage, would you mind elaborating on that, because by my understanding 1% crit would equal to a 1% damage increase (1% chance of doing double damage, no?) where as 1% versatility also gives 1% more damage.

The thing I'm wondering about here is why would versa be the better stat more when you need ~110 points of crit for 1% while you need ~130 points of versatility for 1%?

 Because versatility is 1% dmg on all attacks all the time, so even on the crits. Whereas every dmg you deal that isnt a crit is a waste of crit rating

[Azortharion 60]

Crit is extremely prevalent on gear in Hellfire Citadel. With the exception of very few stats, the more you have of a particular stat, its relative value decreases in comparison to other stats. Since there's so much gear with Crit on it in HFC, even if you don't prioritize it at all, Versatility is gonna outscale it in HFC gear which is what it's based on.

[Guest Tasp]

8 hours ago, Guest Merdips said:

 

 Because versatility is 1% dmg on all attacks all the time, so even on the crits. Whereas every dmg you deal that isnt a crit is a waste of crit rating

I agree that the stat is a waste when it doesn't crit, but with some math we can see it will accumulate to the same damage increase.

Say we have a damage of 100 per hit. If we have 1% versatility this damage will now be 101. If we then hit a target 100 times we will have done 101*100 = 10100 damage

If we do the same for crit, we have 100 damage, we hit the target 100 times, and we have 1% chance to hit the target critically. This should more or less be equivalent to having critically hit 1 time, which means that 99 hits will do 100 damage, and 1 hit will do 200 damage 99*100+1*200 = 10100

We end up having done the same amount of damage on average.

What Azortharion has said about how often certain stats appear on gear gives this another element and changes it somewhat, but theoretically the very first percentage of crit and versatility will give you the same amount of damage.