Orthios

Class Changes in WoD

23 posts in this topic

So, I recently got to thinking about what Blizz could add or change to the classes in WoD that would make them more exciting.  But since we are not getting any more buttons (at least for now), then the skills we currently have are going to be buffed/empowered as we level from 90 to 100.  So, what changes to the classes do y'all think/want to happen?

 

I'll start with my hunter:

  • Buff the main attacks (KC, aimed shot, Black Arrow, BW, Explosive Shot, and Chimera Shot), maybe add a bleed effect/extended DoT (more time in BW), decrease focus cost, increased damage
  • a 6th pet slot
  • Increase base focus to 125, 150 for BM
  • with more focus, a faster focus regen rate
  • Buff Steady/Cobra Shot
  • Buff traps or a new trap - a bear/fox trap that snares and damages
  • Better AoE from Multi-Shot, its good as it is, but could be better
  • Buff Deterence for better ability to soak damage

 

 

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 I admit I'm not jumping out of my chair with excitement about the level 100 talents either. Mostly I want Blizzard to stop copying the Demon Hunter abilities from Diablo 3. Well, maybe they could give me a glyph to make my disengage look like Vault. Pandarian hunters everywhere demand it. tongue.png

 

Lets discuss some of your suggestions. I feel like in WOD Blizzard is trying to downplay a hunter's pet. The talent With or Without You, Lone Wolf passive effect means Survival and Marksmen hunters can wave bye-bye to their pets. This plus the fact that normal and heroic mode raiding will be flexible means hunters will no longer have to examine the raid make-up to see who is bringing what buff/debuff and swap pets out accordingly. It saddens me to think that hunters will be neglecting their pets for more dps. We aren't  cold callus warlocks! I hand picked my pet's models, and know other hunters who have the same pets for years! Adding a 6th pet slot doesn't excitement me, and I don't think many will be carrying around more than 1 or 2 pets come WOD if Lone Wolf stays the same. What would excite me is if they consolidated some of the pet buffs/debuffs. Say for instance instead having the Tallstrider provide Weakened Armor and the Raptor provide Physical Vulnerability, have the Tallstrider AND the Raptor provide BOTH debuffs.

 

Your focus suggestions seem a bit unnecessary to me. Haste increases your focus regen, which still makes it better than mastery in most cases. I know that when you are just starting to gear up it can seem like you are focus starved all the time. However at higher gear levels you naturally obtain more haste. Remember the goal is to never be focus capped or focus starved, and instead hover around that sweet spot of being able to do a major ability off cd ( like Black Arrow, Aimed Shot or Kill Command) and then gain that focus back via Cobra Shot or Steady Shot in time for the next ability in your priority rotation.

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I think that it's counter-productive to discuss buffs to classes without discussing the related nerfs that would have to happen to ensure your class doesn't go OP. If I look at your Hunter wishlist, all I see is the word "Buff" and if every class did that, nothing would change.

 

What I would like to see is a move away from the current Healing paradigm of "cooldown choreography" and more into the "triage" paradigm that we saw in Cataclysm. We saw a bit of it early on in T14, but it's T16 now and mana usage is completely irrelevant on most fights.

 

For Resto Shaman, I'd like to see an increase in the practicality of spread AoE healing for our class at the cost of a major healing cooldown. We have too many, and many progress fights I spend longer trying to figure out what cooldown order to use than what spells I should be using predominantly.

 

For Shaman in general, I'd like to see a diversification of talents which affect throughput. Currently, it feels like there is usually a "right answer" for Shaman and I would prefer there to be an AoE talent and a single-target talent, and a cleave talent, etc. Blizzard went some way to doing this with Rushing Streams, but it could be done better I think.

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Probably good to have class-specific WoD discussion in class forums.

 

I could write a novel about mage changes.

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I could write a novel about mage changes.

 

What's that? You're writing Jaina fanfic? ;P

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A 6th pet slot would be nice, since I (unlike a few hunters) realize that pets are important. The highest crits that I have ever gotten were with kill command and powershot. I always have 1 slot open on my pets tab, in case I find one of those mop rares, I fill it with a quilen(for rezzing), terrorpene(for tanking), any of the many dps pets I have, and my scorpion for when I want to do pvp(8 second disarm on a minute cooldown.) it would be nice, but it would be like my bags-always full(I would probably put my water strider in the 5th slot XD.)

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I hear they are going to be taking End Time away from Mages, I really hope this is not true... It comes in really useful, and if they do, they better buff Arcane Blast, just to keep up with other dps classes.

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I'd love to see some changes to disc priest both to address ability bloat but also to make the healing spec more active.

 

I'd make Rapture more central to disc mana management, making it a focal mechanic to our mana regen and nerf default mana regen accordingly, thereby making it more of an active than a passive process.

 

I'd also address a common problem of all the spells we have with small cooldowns that are always used on cooldown: PoM, Penance, PW:Solace, eg by introducing a charge system to penance with the spell staying the same but instead have something like three charges with a 12-15 sec recharge so that you had to make a choice of when to use it rather than it being cast on cooldown, by default to add to your atonement healing.

 

I'd like to address smart-heals and absorbs too, which frankly both have become way too dominant in the current healing game. As a disc outside SS+PWS duty you're doing nothing but spam atonement(and the above-mentioned small cds) reducing the amount of healing coming from your passive shields(ie DA) by making the DA shields a percentage of your crit equal to your mastery, maybe reducing the interaction to single-target heals, bringing back the old PoH mechanic where a certain percentage of the heal was automatically added as a DA shield for some more controlled absorbs. Another option is going back to the old version where upon a critical strike, DA would take 30% of the healing for the next 12 seconds and turn it into an absorb.

 

For similar reasons I'd adress atonement, which frankly has become ridiculous.  I think for one you could reduce the abilities that interact with Atonement to smite/Holy Fire, making offensive penance a spell exclusively used for DPS, then either reducing the coefficient of interaction with DA or remove it altogether, furthering a need to make smart decisions.

 

To address the ability bloat, you might consider removing some spells, integrating the mechanics into other abilities or otherwise merging them. One obvious choice would be merging Purify and Dispel Magic, making it work like the former on friendly targets and the latter on hostile targets. Another candidate is heal which is rarely used at this point because of the efficiency atonement healing has. Another is Shadowfiend for healers as a mana cooldown and bake that into Hymn of Hope.

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To address the ability bloat, you might consider removing some spells, integrating the mechanics into other abilities or otherwise merging them. One obvious choice would be merging Purify and Dispel Magic, making it work like the former on friendly targets and the latter on hostile targets. Another candidate is heal which is rarely used at this point because of the efficiency atonement healing has. Another is Shadowfiend for healers as a mana cooldown and bake that into Hymn of Hope.

I read somewhere on MMO-Champion that blizz will be removing around 20% of abilities.  This will be nice to get rid of all of the unused abilities that just sit on my bars waiting for that one use.  One thing I'd like to see is a defensive cooldown for hunters.  I mean, Deterence is fine and all, 50% damage reduction is huge, but unable to attack while its up isn't so nice.  Offensive cooldowns is really limited to stampede and rapid fire, and beastial wrath for BM, and those are longer cds (except for rapid fire with the 2 piece, which is nice).  So: more cds, less junk.

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The abilities they are removing are offensive cooldowns, save for BL, and overall reducing the spells you're actually using, not the awkward spells you're rarely using.

 

For healers they are targeting instant spells mostly.

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The abilities they are removing are offensive cooldowns, save for BL, and overall reducing the spells you're actually using, not the awkward spells you're rarely using.

 

For healers they are targeting instant spells mostly.

 

The healer Blog post is next for the Blue WoD discussions.  I hope they give specifics of removals like they did for Racial info.

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Yeah me too, I fear it includes either PoM or CoH for priests...

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Aye autoattacking with my troll rogue will never be more fun after they remove our attack cooldowns.

 

*shakes the sarcasm mode* is this working? 

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Aye autoattacking with my troll rogue will never be more fun after they remove our attack cooldowns.

 

*shakes the sarcasm mode* is this working? 

It's amazing that some people actually think that.  Seen way too many "but my burst CDs are the only way my class can kill people in PvP" posts too; fun fact, that's true of literally every class and is precisely why every part of that statement is getting changed.  Bah.

 

Having leveled a hunter recently, they don't need to lose 20% of their buttons, they need to lose 50% of them.  Jesus.  You can't even macro them because they all have different CDs.  Not to mention that since so many of their buttons come from talents, including ones with very low CDs (15s, 30s) it's a leading cause of all their specs feeling the same.  The "core" 4 buttons might be different (they share Arcane Shot, so not even then), but the eight CDs you need to ignore your rotation to press are the same.  That's just wrong.

 

Looking forward to elemental shaman being the model of CD setup; utility, defensives, and one or two unique, non-interacting damage buffs.  8 CDs is ridiculous.

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Having leveled a hunter recently, they don't need to lose 20% of their buttons, they need to lose 50% of them.  Jesus.  You can't even macro them because they all have different CDs.  Not to mention that since so many of their buttons come from talents, including ones with very low CDs (15s, 30s) it's a leading cause of all their specs feeling the same.  The "core" 4 buttons might be different (they share Arcane Shot, so not even then), but the eight CDs you need to ignore your rotation to press are the same.  That's just wrong.

I agree completely here.  There is sooooooo many abilities that I almost never use.  And on top of that, most of the CDs are smaller ones.  I think Blizz should rework some of the talent tiers as well, I almost never see people running fervor anymore, even though it's great for burst damage.  

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I have not.

 

most of the time in combat is spent using 1 ability (sinister strike)  usage of cooldowns being the only thing breaking out the monotony of it, removing most of the cooldowns would make it in my mind the most boring class to play no matter if it did great damage or not.

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most of the time in combat is spent using 1 ability (sinister strike)  usage of cooldowns being the only thing breaking out the monotony of it, removing most of the cooldowns would make it in my mind the most boring class to play no matter if it did great damage or not.

My understanding of their plan for CDs, as applied to my reading of the combat rogue guide, would be that Adrenaline Rush and Shadow Blades would be merged into the same spell.  (They might also be nerfed as part of CD disarmament, but that's a separate question.)  Basically, there isn't a terribly compelling reason not to just macro them together, so why not have the game do that for you; you don't need to waste button space on them.  You'll almost definitely keep Vanish because it's amongst Rogue's signature moves, but also because it's interesting (not simply +X dps for next Y seconds).  I vaguely recall blues mentioning they aren't sure what they want to do with Killing Spree (gets people killed) or Preparation (CD resets are weird).

 

3ish offensive CDs is somewhat reasonable, especially since you have mechanics related to reducing them that actually makes them determine playstyle a lot.  They're much more interesting than the "press button, does a bunch of damage.  long CD" style hunters have half a dozen of.  (Stampede may be cool visually, but mechanically it could not be more boring.  Even Army of the Dead is more interesting.)  I'm giving Hunters a lot of crap here because they're the worst offenders, but most CDs are terribly boring.  Good CDs shouldn't interact with each other (cast when appropriate, rather than stack because not stacking is a loss) and there shouldn't be that many of them.  Warlocks have a +DPS CD (Dark Soul) and a CD pet (Doomguard); these CDs don't interact.  Elemental Shaman have a +DPS CD (Ascendance) and a CD pet (Fire Elemental Totem); these CDs don't interact.  (Stormlash is going away.)  Boomkin have a +DPS CD (Celestial Alignment) and can talent for others.  Retribution has a +DPS CD and a CD pet, but they interact and share a CD.  Only a minor quirk encourages you not to just macro them; that's the sort of thing that should be combined.

 

By contrast (and not to pick on hunters constantly), DPS Warriors have 4 CDs + a couple from talents that all kinda interact with each other sort of (to say nothing of Colossus Smash).  It's a mess, it's a right PITA to learn, and it's way too easy to screw up; they're likely to see a number of them get baked into each other or axed entirely.  Then again, Warriors are completely messed up right now in that Arms is the fast paced button-masher and Fury is the calculated planning spec, which seems entirely backwards.  Hunters aren't the only people with spec identity problems.

 

Basically, if you're spending most of your time worrying about CDs and super-mega-ultra-burst, some of your CDs are probably going to merged/nerfed/axed.  Other things macro'd by approximately everyone are also getting baked in, like how everyone's first macro is "#stopcasting /cast interrupt".

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So, apparently the hunter talents have been reworked, slightly, so that stampede replaces lynx rush as a talent and bola shot now adds (as per my understanding of its wording in the video) 80% of your auto shot damage as fire.  Either that or your auto attack is now 80% fire damage instead.  There is a few other videos posted on mmo champion as well.

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Love the discussion so far. Personally I'd love to see a reduction in the "viable" buttons (like how as Sub I have to keep SnD active at all times), and turn them into something that requires additional skill on the part of the player. I only have experience with two classes (sub rogue and prot/fury warrior), so apologies if these suggestions seem noobish to anyone).

 

For sub, eliminate SnD altogether - instead, add the tie in attack speed to generation of combo points - that is, with one CP you have 20% attack speed increase SnD used to provide, two CP 40%, three 60%, four 80%, and at 5 CP 100%. This rewards players for knowing when to use combo points and when to hang on to them, something that you now almost never do (at least in PvE, which is all I play).

 

I'd love to see a huge buff to Shadowstep - basically, have it cost Energy (maybe 10 or 15?) but remove its cooldown entirely. You'd still have to be pretty talented to make use of it properly (by targeting properly), but right now it functions like a warrior's charge in that it opens combat and that's about it. Since a huge part of rogue play is mobility, this would increase mobility in the extreme, at the cost of dps, which seems like a fair trade. (Maybe remove burst of speed, too? In my experience Shadowstep is always the better choice). Again, I'm speaking in terms of PvE only.

 

It might be interesting to see "meta combo points." I know it's probably a bad idea to have yet another resource to track, but maybe, for example, each consecutive eviscerate deals X increased damage? Or each Rupture applied while the Rupture debuff is present extends duration rather than resetting the debuff?

 

The list for prot is pretty short (I feel like we're very well balanced with other tank classes, if a bit low on the dps side).

Instead of a cooldown reset, I wish Revenge dealt increased damage with each attack parried/dodge during its CD.

I'd appreciate not having to click to place demo banner (like skull banner is now), so the macro its in would cast a lot quicker.

It might be cool for the warrior to carry the banners - same range, same buffs - but those in range of the warrior (rather than the banner) recieve the buff. Or maybe a glyph that lets you change this.

 

Finally, for Fury, I'd love to see a talent or two that allows you to create a throwing-specialist warrior - something that gives extra charges to heroic and shattering throw, a double-throw ability (like in Diablo II), glyphs that reduce cooldowns on throws, etc. In exchange for these talents, melee abilities would get a big nerf. The goal of this isn't to make warrior a ranged class, but to provide something other than shattering throw every five minutes.

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