mackk

How I'm feeling about the state of hunters atm.

33 posts in this topic

I feel very broken as a hunter atm, I played in the ptr and was hoping for things to be improved but nothing happened, played SV and MM in mythic SoO tonight and plan to test BM next raid.

As SV I found the rotation very uninteresting and was way down on damage compared to others in my raid team, where in 5.4 I was topping the meters. Not having any burst makes the spec feel pretty slow.

MM was a bit better damage wise as long as long as I was standing still, sniper training uptime is going to vary fight to fight making MM DPS inconsistent, the rotation itself feels very contorted if I wanted long casts I would go play a different class. I feel sniper training will hurt PvP quite a bit.

Played BM a bit in ptr too, it felt pretty stripped down. I will comment more when I've played it in a raid environment.

Overall the class feels completely gutted, not finished and unfun to play, its like Blizz started to make some changes took away some things to add in others but then ran out of time/gave up and just tried to tweak what we were left it. This is the first xpac I have been unhappy about class changes, others I loved. While specs are tuned for level 100 in WoD what I've seen from the beta isn't much better and the play styles are the same. Any game I play I choose the hunter/ranger/archer type class first and these changes have made me unsure if I will continue to play.

Lets see what happens to hunters in the next month anyway.

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You just posted this on reddit too, didn't you :) ?

Well, I shall leave the same reply then here:

 

Been SV all expac and while we had a ton of CDs to track (depending on your talent choices), it was never that difficult to manage. Sure Explosive Trap and Snake Trap barely tickled the enemies, but overall the spec was easy to learn without being tedious and well-performing in ST, Cleave, and AoE fights.

 

Now, it's a shadow of its former self. Serpent Sting damage is laughable. Explosive Shot feels puny. Black Arrow damage has improved, but isnt enough to pull up the other low DPS numbers. The only positive SV change is that Explosive Trap now feels beefier.

 

So, in the interest of my raid's DPS, I switched to MM, a.k.a. the 5-button wonder. I literally press 5 buttons the entire fight: Steady Shot, Aimed Shot, Chimaera Shot, Barrage, and Stampede. Add two more for AoE (Multi-Shot and Explosive Trap) and thats literally the entire rotation. Add to that the fact that the mastery completely ruins the best part of being a hunter, unlimited mobility, and being a MM hunter right now feels very...odd.

 

I'm adjusting and getting used to it, but it's not going to be a fun ride.

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You just posted this on reddit too, didn't you smile.png ?

 

 

hehe, yeah. First time I've really made a long complaining post and just wanted to get it out there, hopefully enough feedback and disscussion from hunters will get things changed.

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The problem I see is that honestly all the specs are dumbed down a SHIT ton with 6.0. MM lost Serpent Sting and it feels very awkward to play and if you don't play it PERFECT then you either cap focus, or you delay Barrage/Chimaera. It is very finicky. 

 

SV is too bad to even talk about.

 

BM is the only spec that feels remotely similar to 5.4.8 and even that is dumb as hell to play.

 

We just have to remember this stuff isn't tuned around level 90, it is tuned for level 100. So I'm waiting til I hit 100 before I start to worry. However last night I really freaking enjoyed MM.

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The problem I see is that honestly all the specs are dumbed down a SHIT ton with 6.0. MM lost Serpent Sting and it feels very awkward to play and if you don't play it PERFECT then you either cap focus, or you delay Barrage/Chimaera. It is very finicky. 

 

SV is too bad to even talk about.

 

BM is the only spec that feels remotely similar to 5.4.8 and even that is dumb as hell to play.

 

We just have to remember this stuff isn't tuned around level 90, it is tuned for level 100. So I'm waiting til I hit 100 before I start to worry. However last night I really freaking enjoyed MM.

 

Yeah, I ran MM last night and was focus-capping like a mad man, will take some practice to get right.  Celestalon admitted via twitter they're not happy with hunters right now, so maybe some more hotfixes coming out.  Even without them, the DPS isn't so bad, I just resent being forced to give up my favorite spec.

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Yeah, I ran MM last night and was focus-capping like a mad man, will take some practice to get right.  Celestalon admitted via twitter they're not happy with hunters right now, so maybe some more hotfixes coming out.  Even without them, the DPS isn't so bad, I just resent being forced to give up my favorite spec.

 

Well atleast they realize the problem. I'm not expecting perfection right out of the gate for such a huge change to all the classes in general, as long as they start moving in the right direction I'll be a happy hunter.

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Well atleast they realize the problem. I'm not expecting perfection right out of the gate for such a huge change to all the classes in general, as long as they start moving in the right direction I'll be a happy hunter.

 

The thing that bugs me is that, IMHO, Survival didnt NEED a change.  Maybe one or two less CDs on my action bars, but they seem to have dumbed down what was already a a relatively easy class to play, comparatively-speaking, for no real reason.  Survival getting no baselines CDs is a great example of this.  Was tracking one CD really so hard?  Was one CD really so unbalancing that they had to remove all of them? What was wrong with Bear Trap, that seemed like a reasonable solution.

Anyways, rant over, will give Blizz the benefit of the doubt and wait until 100 until I pass official judgement :)

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The thing that bugs me is that, IMHO, Survival didnt NEED a change.  Maybe one or two less CDs on my action bars, but they seem to have dumbed down what was already a a relatively easy class to play, comparatively-speaking, for no real reason.  Survival getting no baselines CDs is a great example of this.  Was tracking one CD really so hard?  Was one CD really so unbalancing that they had to remove all of them? What was wrong with Bear Trap, that seemed like a reasonable solution.

Anyways, rant over, will give Blizz the benefit of the doubt and wait until 100 until I pass official judgement smile.png

 

It was quite literally perfect. Played well you could top meters, just like any other spec (read: not shadow priests) but even played average we weren't OP and we weren't terrible. They didn't need to change ANYTHING. If they gave us a CD like a Focus regen CD and took out SS we would've been fine, the kill shot removal plus the CD removal was what killed the spec. This is coming from a very long time SV hunter, I hate the spec now.

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It was quite literally perfect. Played well you could top meters, just like any other spec (read: not shadow priests) but even played average we weren't OP and we weren't terrible. They didn't need to change ANYTHING. If they gave us a CD like a Focus regen CD and took out SS we would've been fine, the kill shot removal plus the CD removal was what killed the spec. This is coming from a very long time SV hunter, I hate the spec now.

 

It was the perfect example of how to build a spec that is capable of ST, Cleave, and mass AoE without being under or over powered on any of them.  The only thing I wanted them to change was to make Explosive Trap worth using on AoE fights again (it was a DPS gain sure, but it was a tickle compared to SS and Barrage). 

Edited by Atrais

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It really wasn't even a DPS gain. It is currently for 2+ targets but in 5.4 it was a huge loss.

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It really wasn't even a DPS gain. It is currently for 2+ targets but in 5.4 it was a huge loss.

 

 

Ahh, I thought it was for 3+ targets, so Sha mini-adds, Shaman slimes, Galak, and Spoils were really the only times I used it, but exactly wasn't high on my priority list

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Created an account on here just for this.

 

I don't know about you guys, but the only reason why I made a Hunter is because they are the only class who fights at ranged using bows.

Combat-wise, I don't care about the pets, I don't want to have to bother with them and I don't even want to have one out (Lone Wolf talent at Lv. 100 <3.)

I do like being able to tame wild animals and have them follow me around, but that's about it. Just flavor, an additional pet following me around along with my usual companion pet.

 

That being said, I don't want to even think about going Beast Mastery. I can understand the appeal if you want to play a Hunter for what it is (a pet class), but for someone like me who wants to play a Hunter solely for the ranged combat using a bow, Marksmanship is the best option as I feel it represents what a Ranger class would have been.

 

Before 6.0.2, Marksmanship felt perfect to play, IMO. But the removal of Arcane Shot from Marksmanship is probably the main issue I have with it. The nerfs to some other abilities bug me as well (I liked being able to 1-hit quest mobs with Aimed Shot), but they aren't as problematic; I understand that being able to 1-hit everything greatly cheapens the questing experience.

 

My greatest issue with Marksmanship is the lack of what I like to call a "spammable ability."

For Hunters, I felt that Arcane Shot fit that description nicely.

 

Now that Marksmanship doesn't have that anymore, it doesn't feel as fun to play.

Personally, what makes a class boring to me is downtime. I can't stand when my rotation forces me to just sit still and watch.

 

In the case of Hunters, Arcane Shot greatly reduced the amount of downtime I had to suffer through. It did cost 30 Focus and so sometimes could only be cast three times in a row, requiring me to use Steady Shot a couple times to replenish my Focus, but Thrill of the Hunt procced so often that I would usually be able to have Arcane Shot going for 10 Focus a shot, and then Thrill of the Hunt would often re-proc again while it was still in effect, allowing me to spam it really often.

 

This is also the case for the other classes I enjoy playing. I like Monk, because I know that there will always be an ability I can use when others are on cooldown, even if it's just repeatedly hitting Jab --> Blackout Kick.

Same deal with Warrior; I picked Unquenchable Thirst as a talent because it allows me to use Bloodthirst whenever I want (I still have to experiment with the other talents, though; Furious Strikes might actually fit my play style better.)

 

If they simply added Arcane Shot back (along with its proc effect from Thrill of the Hunt), I would be happy and accept all the other changes to the spec (I don't really care about Serpent Sting. Was nice to use it, but as far as gameplay goes, there wasn't much of a difference to me between pressing 4 to fire Serpent Sting or pressing 1 to fire Arcane Shot.)

 

 

Keep in mind, though, I understand that Marksmanship may still be able to do nice DPS with its best rotation.

However, that rotation just isn't fun to play for me. I've tried it, and no matter how I do it, I get stuck having to wait. When I'm waiting on Chimaera Shot's cooldown, I use Aimed Shot = have to wait for the cast time, which isn't too bad since it does decent damage. However, when I'm out of Focus, I have to use Steady Shot to refill my Focus = have to wait for the cooldown + do piss poor damage for a little bit.

 

It's the same deal as Arms Warrior. My Warrior originally was Arms, but as soon as I found out about the changes when I hopped onto the PTR for the first time, my first reaction was: "... Fury it is."

I know that Arms still has great potential DPS, but the play style is just so mind-numbingly boring that I didn't even take a second thought and immediately started gearing up for Fury. No primary rage generator, having to wait for auto-attacks to generate most of your rage didn't feel very fun to me. I did notice that once you had a lot of rage accumulated, I was actually able to have fun using my abilities, but then it goes back to having to wait if I run out of rage, and I start most fights at 0 rage anyway.

 

 

I had never felt the need to do it before, but at Lv. 80 I am finally unlocking dual specialization on my Hunter.

I'm willing to give Survival a try since it still has Arcane Shot and won't force me to use my pet.

I'll still be keeping Marksmanship as my primary specialization, on the off-chance that they make it fun for me again. But for the time being, it's very likely that I will be sticking to Survival.

Edited by Pingouin7

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you could top meters, just like any other spec (read: not shadow priests)

KEK

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I agree with Niix in regards to BM being the only spec close to 5.4.8. I played during MoP as SV 99.9999999% of the time and it feels extremely bad and odd to play now. I only ever switched to BM for a high death fight where we needed a Quilen in MoP. Well a battle rez pet on standby, but other than that always SV.

I will admit as SV in MoP i could do insane amounts of dmg. BM was burst dmg for MoP and MM was purely for PVP. But as Blizzard does they liven the specs up each xpack. LOL. Sigh. sad.png

 

But yeah. It will be insanely good fun to re-learn the specs again and looking forward to Mystic raids. smile.png

Edited by gumble85
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I've had a hunter as my main since Vanilla and was pretty happy with MoP. I was in the top 5 on damage charts with raiding and everything worked. SV was better for aoe fights, BM was for everything else PVE and MM ruled pvp. Yes, there was button bloat, but it was manageable and gave a lot of utility. Yes, it was fun to stun, interrupt, silence and freeze opponents in pvp, but after several expansions of being honor point bait for every other class, I didn't feel a bit of shame in getting a little payback. 

 

Every other expansion or so, some asshat at Blizzard decides that hunters are too op, too fun to play, too something and we get mauled by the nerf hammer almost to into the dirt. I saw this coming with WoD and leveled 5 alts to 90. I haven't even turned on recount to see what my comparative damage looks like. The class is obviously broken.

 

I intend to post on Blizz's forum every day until it's fixed. 

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I've had a hunter as my main since Vanilla and was pretty happy with MoP. I was in the top 5 on damage charts with raiding and everything worked. SV was better for aoe fights, BM was for everything else PVE and MM ruled pvp. Yes, there was button bloat, but it was manageable and gave a lot of utility. Yes, it was fun to stun, interrupt, silence and freeze opponents in pvp, but after several expansions of being honor point bait for every other class, I didn't feel a bit of shame in getting a little payback. 

 

Every other expansion or so, some asshat at Blizzard decides that hunters are too op, too fun to play, too something and we get mauled by the nerf hammer almost to into the dirt. I saw this coming with WoD and leveled 5 alts to 90. I haven't even turned on recount to see what my comparative damage looks like. The class is obviously broken.

 

I intend to post on Blizz's forum every day until it's fixed. 

 

I'm very passionate about hunters and it pains me to see them in this position. Blizzard has stated that they aren't happy with hunters at the moment. I really hope they give us some damage buffs, lower the focus cost of AiS, give SV a cooldown and just outright buff BM.

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I did about middle of the pack last night in the heroic PuG I was in.  Heroic, btw, is a pushover.  Without DBM and OmniCC, I wasn't at the top of my game regarding mechanics and using things on CD, and without JSHB I didn't have a focus bar where I normally do. tongue.png  Hopefully by tonight I can have these remedied for IJ+.  Anyone have a good focus bar WA in the meantime?  Would be nice if it included the targets health % as well on the bar, just something I'm used to having.

Edited by Orthios

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I did about middle of the pack last night in the heroic PuG I was in.  Heroic, btw, is a pushover.  Without DBM and OmniCC, I wasn't at the top of my game regarding mechanics and using things on CD, and without JSHB I didn't have a focus bar where I normally do. tongue.png  Hopefully by tonight I can have these remedied for IJ+.  Anyone have a good focus bar WA in the meantime?  Would be nice if it included the targets health % as well on the bar, just something I'm used to having.

 

Yeah, Heroic (former Normal) is a joke right now.  My guild got Garry out of P1 just after the first Iron Star, out of P2 after the 2nd MC, and killed him before he could even spawn adds.

I went from having about 85% uptime on Sniper Training Tuesday night to about 95% last night, so likewise my DPS went up a bit.  I am consistenly #2 DPS in our guild right now, but most of the DPS are lower ilvl than me.  Our Frost DK is my ilvl and does about 5%-10% more than me, which seems accurate based on the parses I am seeing.  I am decently satisfied with where MM is right now, a few buffs and I will be content.  My biggest axe to grind is with Survival, which is still pitiful.  They did finally fix AoC for Survival, so that BA can now have 100% uptime.

Edited by Atrais

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Yeah, Heroic (former Normal) is a joke right now.  My guild got Garry out of P1 just after the first Iron Star, out of P2 after the 2nd MC, and killed him before he could even spawn adds.

I went from having about 85% uptime on Sniper Training Tuesday night to about 95% last night, so likewise my DPS went up a bit.  I am consistenly #2 DPS in our guild right now, but most of the DPS are lower ilvl than me.  Our Frost DK is my ilvl and does about 5%-10% more than me, which seems accurate based on the parses I am seeing.  I am decently satisfied with where MM is right now, a few buffs and I will be content.  My biggest axe to grind is with Survival, which is still pitiful.  They did finally fix AoC for Survival, so that BA can now have 100% uptime.

Sorry but this is because ur guildies aint good. I have to face warriors whit 25kdps, locks whit 23, mages whit 21 and shamanes whit 18/19k. When i look at the recount, Im at 15k at the bottom of the dps list, just under a paladin whit 16k. (and as i know, mages should been higher)

Edited by EmaWorld

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Sorry but this is because ur guildies aint good. I have to face warriors whit 25kdps, locks whit 23, mages whit 21 and shamanes whit 18/19k. When i look at the recount, Im at 15k at the bottom of the dps list, just under a paladin whit 16k. (and as i know, mages should been higher)

 

Did you miss the past where I said "most of the DPS are lower ilvl than me" ?

My guild just formed in September, most of us are returning for WoD, so yeah, my guildies aren't "good' because their gear is crap.

Regardless, I tend to find my 16K is more than eenough for the PuGs I have been in, usually lower-mid.  Yeah, locks and warrior and the occasional mage are way ahead right now, but on average I would say I seem to be 10% behind the middle.

Edited by Atrais

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Buffs Galore for us hunters!

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Buffs Galore for us hunters!

 

80% for AMoC? Good god, that has got to be the best for ST now...

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Came here after my dis-satisfaction with my damage in tonights SoO, decided to join after reading the tweet and seeing the mention to it above.  I have been SV since I started raiding in TBC.  I have topped meters all xpac until tonight, I could barely pull 2nd (But I'll take that, it was to a much higher geared lock).  I saw the buff looking at the blue tweets and I hope its enough to put it back inline a bit, but I think i might just put MM that much further ahead.  BM will most likely fall back to SV (at least for now imo), but time will tell once this hotfix goes live.  

I will most likely have to break down and try MM, but, I cant let go of SV so easily.  I think BM is incredibly boring, but I do like to solo older content where BM *used* to shine for me.  Now it feels like all i do is kill command.  Maybe I will toss BM for a bit and give MM a try, at least to see if the numbers are worth it.  

 

P.S.  Love the site!  been a lurker for a very long time.

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Came here after my dis-satisfaction with my damage in tonights SoO, decided to join after reading the tweet and seeing the mention to it above.  I have been SV since I started raiding in TBC.  I have topped meters all xpac until tonight, I could barely pull 2nd (But I'll take that, it was to a much higher geared lock).  I saw the buff looking at the blue tweets and I hope its enough to put it back inline a bit, but I think i might just put MM that much further ahead.  BM will most likely fall back to SV (at least for now imo), but time will tell once this hotfix goes live.  

I will most likely have to break down and try MM, but, I cant let go of SV so easily.  I think BM is incredibly boring, but I do like to solo older content where BM *used* to shine for me.  Now it feels like all i do is kill command.  Maybe I will toss BM for a bit and give MM a try, at least to see if the numbers are worth it.  

 

P.S.  Love the site!  been a lurker for a very long time.

 

First off welcome! Glad to have you here. 

 

I haven't had a chance to re-sim us yet since the buffs don't go live until Tuesday. Afterwards I believe we will have this.

 

MM still top, competitive with other high DPS classes.

BM and SV slightly below, but still competitive.

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      What we expect from you...
      - Desire to be part of a team. This includes being on Mumble and taking an interest in the guilds objectives, upholding its principles and helping to secure its longevity.
      - Great verbal communication during raid.
      - Good attitude and mutual respect towards fellow guild and raid team members.
      - High to perfect raid attendance.
      - Perseverance. Wiping is part of the game, and staying motivated and positive is a must.
      - Know your class and all of its abilities. Have a viable off spec for the team.
      - Be active and contribute to the guild forums.

      Currently Recruiting:
      1 Melee DPS
      1 Ranged DPS
      1 Healer: Holy Priest, Holy Paladin or Resto Shaman
      Exceptional players are always considered.

      Visit ImperiumGuild.ca to apply or to learn more about us.
      Vee#1811
      Mochi#11316
      Roxycodone#1543
      Nyyankees29#1435
      Skratchh#1194
       
    • By Tools
      I have seen several post on bm dps questions and don't see many responses so I thought I'd drop some quick tips and other feel free to add. I am no know it all by any means but I do seem to out dps a lot of mm and the bm's I see. Spec seems to be a common issue. I spend hours a week on test dummies which is always a good habit for anyone. Cobra shot spec is the key I have found to work best for me. I hear and see a lot of player say bm is lazy and nothing to do spec. If you aren't using a cd or ability you are doing it wrong that's the first sign. There is very little down time if played right. Killer Cobra is a key to this in the spec. Most other talents icy has are fine but some can be tweaked for raid/dungeon. Way of the cobra talent is also key to this combo in the spec. I will start with my opener and explain why. Pre pot obviously then I open with AMOC , Dire. I see a lot disagree but here is my reasoning. you don't want to use AMOC. During BW or its a waste of fury so you need to offset the timers and AMOC gets buffs ticks during it's duration so no need to use it with other cd's. I use Dire after AMOC because it replaces the fury I just lost for casting AMOC. Next I use BW, MOTW, Titans and any racial buff you have and spam Cobra and KC. In this spec every cobra shot during BW resets KC. You want to burn all the fury while still using dire cd during BW. After the burn phase you will use KC every cd and Dire and use Cobra shot above 75% or so fury. Make sure you're next cd of Titans is done correctly. Always cast Titans after Dire since its effected by the number of pets you have out. You do need to even space your Cobra shots and no spam them so you're auto attacks can proc some extra Dire. Don't burn fury with Cobra's on non burn phases and let fury regen it is a dps loss. Your Titans will line up with you're BW and MOTW cd's if you do it right. Next is very important as well. Depending on your fury when you notice BW is about ready to use you need to let your fury get to max even if it means skipping a KC cd' you want full fury when you hit it every time for you're Cobra KC spam rotation. This will help out most a lot to get started I hope and there is always more tiny stuff but a lot of it is common sense so I will skip to stats.
      Stats for bm are very important like any class. You must get you're mastery up as high as possible. Haste is very important and at low ilevels more than mastery even. I might get a lot of disagreement in this but here is why. Haste is your regen and without fury your are sitting doing nothing. Below 850 you may want to have a few haste heavy items to get you to 10% then go for mastery at all costs. The higher you're mastery and haste get you will notice a very good steady increase in dps. Crit is a decent 3rd stat if you have to get a mastery item but skip vers at all costs its crap. I am over 300k on every fight and some close to 400 single target at 873 ilevel and still missing several key gear items. The dps is bm is good and I very much like the mobility.
      As far as raid tips the biggest I can say is a pet attack macro. Hati is so dumb its a huge dps loss with its add and the other pet you have is slow to react as well. Pet attack combined with your attacks is a big dps help. Also I hope some wow dev reads this since I send them bugs reports daily but yes flying pets do more dps. As this is literally proven by many players besides myself for an really dumb reason. They don't get stuck in the floor during fights. Yep a good 10k dps I can tell on parses its that dumb. One more huge tip. Always keep pet tenacity spec. Tank pets to way more damage with stomp. Id you get lucky like I did and get apex this is even a bigger increase. Hope this helps and hammy hunting.!!