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Retribution Paladin 7.3

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Guest Omnicknight
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thus invalidating simcrafts stat scaling feature, but in my own small scale tests of exchanging crit/haste, versa/haste and crit/versa amulets in simcraft, the crit/versa actually came out best.

I want to clear myself up, I left out a number of claims and assumptions that I was talking about.

I was told that haste would be the best stat to push even if simcraft wouldn't say so.(Full reason: simcraft checks stat scaling for current stats and current stats+1000). For my own test simcraft told me that stat priority on that character would be versa=crit>haste, which is pretty much what I found to be true in further tests. I was told simcraft would be slightly wrong on this and not recognize the great value of hitting some kind of non-obvious haste breakpoints. Simcraft would somehow not reach the next haste scaling breakpoint by checking +1000 haste. And this happened for pretty much every player that I heard talking about it on discord. That it happened to many different people with very differently geared characters equally seemed highly unlikely to me. I haven't seen proof for simcraft getting it wrong, either, so I still put my trust in the simulations being the best facts at hand. Since most retri paladins walk around with close to 0 versatility, simcraft keeps recommending versatility as most important stat to pretty much anyone who sims his retpala. My stance is that simcraft is trustworthy in its scaling calculation. I am open to being proven wrong and simcraft is actually making mistakes, but I would like that to be proven in some way beyond "I think that simcraft is wrong you should stack more haste"

Simcraft steers me in a direction of crit roughly equal to haste, versatility about half of that and mastery should be reduced even further while I am on just my artifact weapon and 1 piece of gear contributing mastery. Not even minding the fact that different talent setups scale completely different with haste/crit or the fact that Crusade adding 52% haste and bloodlust adding 30% haste already devalue haste for the burst damage phases, as every melee ability is instant cast, and only cooldowns get improved after reaching the minimum GCD of 1(0.75?) second.

The stat scaling for retri pala is a bit of a mess, even the !retpawn in the retri discord refuses to say anything beyond "simcraft your own stats". 

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16 hours ago, Guest Omnicknight said:

Cheers

Hey there!

Thanks a lot for all of the work you've put into your feedback! I'll get our writers to take a look and review everything; we'll then see what we can do with it all!

Thanks once again for contributing :)

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Guest Tétroh

in the guide it said to use talent VB if i have enough crit , im at 30% no buff, should i take it or still keep bow? kinda lost :S  ( im 30%crit 21%haste 19%mastery)

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22 hours ago, Guest Tétroh said:

in the guide it said to use talent VB if i have enough crit , im at 30% no buff, should i take it or still keep bow? kinda lost :S  ( im 30%crit 21%haste 19%mastery)

For raids, take it on pure st fights like first boss and usroc other wise BoW

For dungs, it depends on your dung group if you need to go st then bow+gj or dh+tfoj

never take vb+gj.

Edited by Farion

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Guest Saisya

Regarding the notion that we should never pass up upgrades, seeing as strength is our primary stat, I am really starting to question the validity of this with relation to secondary stats.

I am not in raid tiers yet, as I am a casual player. My item level is about 850 give or take based on gear choices. I still like to do mythic+ though, and want to be the best ret I can be.

I recently finished exalted with nightfallen so I could get my class shoulders and pick up the 6 piece +500str bonus. Swapping out several pieces of gear leads to the following changes:

30% Crit goes to 24%

19.5% haste goes to 23%

24% mastery goes to 26%

versatility stays around 2%

Net gain with these gear changes is +183 strength.

 

On a practice dummy without any buffs or consumables, my dps went down by about 7k. I then loaded each set into Simcraft and ran 10 sims on each set. The set with lower STR/Haste but higher crit won out every time by 3-4k dps.

What am I missing here?

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On 10/18/2016 at 7:26 AM, Guest Saisya said:

Regarding the notion that we should never pass up upgrades, seeing as strength is our primary stat, I am really starting to question the validity of this with relation to secondary stats.

I am not in raid tiers yet, as I am a casual player. My item level is about 850 give or take based on gear choices. I still like to do mythic+ though, and want to be the best ret I can be.

I recently finished exalted with nightfallen so I could get my class shoulders and pick up the 6 piece +500str bonus. Swapping out several pieces of gear leads to the following changes:

30% Crit goes to 24%

19.5% haste goes to 23%

24% mastery goes to 26%

versatility stays around 2%

Net gain with these gear changes is +183 strength.

 

On a practice dummy without any buffs or consumables, my dps went down by about 7k. I then loaded each set into Simcraft and ran 10 sims on each set. The set with lower STR/Haste but higher crit won out every time by 3-4k dps.

What am I missing here?

Well, The stats recommendations in the guide are long-term recommendations and over time, applying those rules will give you reasonable results but that doesn't mean that the rule is perfect for all situations.
ps, you're giving up alot of crit.
 

Edited by Farion

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Guest ebiil

So, I have and am using Mark of the Hidden Satyr currently, just trying to justify buying it again once I get a decent enough upgraded necklace. In a 30 second duration Crusade against a training dummy, only using Might, no pots/food etc, it did 390k damage (3.3% of 11.98m). So it seems like the damage will continue to build up, especially in raid fights.. but I can't see anywhere what can affect the procs damage. To what I have seen it's only versatility, but my current build right now has none and the tooltip says it does 71k damage a proc. Does Crusade/Avenging wrath affect the damage of it?

 

I guess if I really want to min/max then the 20k cost on my server is worth it, just wondering what others think of this enchant.

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On 10/21/2016 at 6:34 PM, Guest ebiil said:

To what I have seen it's only versatility, but my current build right now has none and the tooltip says it does 71k damage a proc. Does Crusade/Avenging wrath affect the damage of it?

Vers does affect it and it can crit.

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Guest PentaKim

Hi there.

At the "bis list" I see 2 rings with Mastery on, and my mind can't comprehend why.

We clearly know that mastery is terrible for us, so i was expecting to see rings like the one on Nythendra?

In fact. There is ALOT of gear with mastery on it. Dosent this confuse people who arent sure on how to build Ret paladins?

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On 10/25/2016 at 1:25 AM, Guest PentaKim said:

Hi there.

At the "bis list" I see 2 rings with Mastery on, and my mind can't comprehend why.

We clearly know that mastery is terrible for us, so i was expecting to see rings like the one on Nythendra?

In fact. There is ALOT of gear with mastery on it. Dosent this confuse people who arent sure on how to build Ret paladins?

Because they have Haste on them. There are no rings with more Haste on them in EN.

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Guest Sallissa

Hi, looking over the tier 4 talent choices after the change to a passive, and I keep seeing " (assuming high levels of Critical Strike; otherwise, Virtue's Blade is not competitive)"

Could we have some clarification on what counts as a "high level"? I have 26.87% currently.

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2 hours ago, Guest Sallissa said:

Hi, looking over the tier 4 talent choices after the change to a passive, and I keep seeing " (assuming high levels of Critical Strike; otherwise, Virtue's Blade is not competitive)"

Could we have some clarification on what counts as a "high level"? I have 26.87% currently.

You have to sim your self to find out if vb is good for you with the amount of crit you have or not.

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Could someone shed some light on why it is recommended to rush to Ashes to Ashes and then reset, redoing all of the traits? I'm assuming that it would be for leveling purposes but perhaps I'm wrong. Just wondering what the benefit of the reset strategy would be.

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Guest Tolram

It's all about DPS. Ashes to Ashes is good DPS gain and to get it fast is effective boost for your paladin. Longer route grants more DPS but takes much longer get to AoA. So DPS wise it's much better to use AoA while getting AP for the reset instead of going long route without AoA for so long.

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Guest Keidoriel - Ragnaros

Choosing crusade is a bulls*** i think.... if you can read: it gives !!!3,5% !!! (instead of fix 35%!) dmg+haste boost and STACKING UP.... Yes at the end u get 52% boost. But till you stack it up, it wears off, so the 52% boost may infect 1 or 2 spells and not sure if u do a critical!.....thats a lot of dmg lose.... and Divine purpose proccing a lot more. If u chose Divine Purpose u can use Crusader Strike and Divine Storm more often (for free!). Or even Justicar's Vengeance if u need selfheal (helping out the healers). and yea...JV isn't just good for soloplaying... its a real help for healers as it heals good and deals very good dmg (Same as Crusader strike). Since u don't need so much mastery in legion you can put everything on to haste and crit. i am not a mythic player but for normal /hc kontent it surely worth it better, to choose Divine Purpose. U can say u lose 17% boost wen u chose Divine Purpose instead of Crusade but just think it over: Opening all wp traits gives you +7,5 sec to youe Avenging Wrath. So under youre 27,5sec Avenging Wrath haste and crit makes u procc Divine Purpose more often making you able to use youre HP consumers more often with a fix 35% Haste+DMG boost and that's much better. Also making less stress to build up the stacks.... so its easyer to handle.

It's just an opinion. But i built my talents this way.

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5 hours ago, Guest Keidoriel - Ragnaros said:

Choosing crusade is a bulls*** i think.... if you can read: it gives !!!3,5% !!! (instead of fix 35%!) dmg+haste boost and STACKING UP.... Yes at the end u get 52% boost. But till you stack it up, it wears off, so the 52% boost may infect 1 or 2 spells and not sure if u do a critical!.....thats a lot of dmg lose.... and Divine purpose proccing a lot more. If u chose Divine Purpose u can use Crusader Strike and Divine Storm more often (for free!). Or even Justicar's Vengeance if u need selfheal (helping out the healers). and yea...JV isn't just good for soloplaying... its a real help for healers as it heals good and deals very good dmg (Same as Crusader strike). Since u don't need so much mastery in legion you can put everything on to haste and crit. i am not a mythic player but for normal /hc kontent it surely worth it better, to choose Divine Purpose. U can say u lose 17% boost wen u chose Divine Purpose instead of Crusade but just think it over: Opening all wp traits gives you +7,5 sec to youe Avenging Wrath. So under youre 27,5sec Avenging Wrath haste and crit makes u procc Divine Purpose more often making you able to use youre HP consumers more often with a fix 35% Haste+DMG boost and that's much better. Also making less stress to build up the stacks.... so its easyer to handle.

It's just an opinion. But i built my talents this way.

1= you have over 20 seconds uptime on your 15 stacks in crusade.

2= Sims shows does not show dp performing as nearly as good as crusade.

3= normal wings does not give you haste.

4=dp does not proc CS

5= you dont use JV unless you're doing a wq or under 5k hp

6= haste=crit=vers has same values with mastery abit below them



It seems you're new to the spec, so i would perhaps recommend you joining the paladin discord and discuss your exact same thought with the community over there.

https://discord.gg/hammerofwrath

Edited by Farion

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17 hours ago, Guest Tolram said:

It's all about DPS. Ashes to Ashes is good DPS gain and to get it fast is effective boost for your paladin. Longer route grants more DPS but takes much longer get to AoA. So DPS wise it's much better to use AoA while getting AP for the reset instead of going long route without AoA for so long.

Makes sense. Thank you!

Might I suggest that this is added to the guide for a reference point? Would certainly clarify why someone should consider going through the reset process because there isn't any such clarity in the foreword of Artifact page.

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21 hours ago, Guest HolyShoteR said:

Guys i need some help deciding on my gear ,  i've been very unlucky with many mastery drops lately ,  should i focus ilvl(str)/masterty over crit/ver/haste?  if not how much is the breaking point like  10+ilvl/mastery > crit/ver/haste?

here is my armory if u guys want to check http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/azralon/Holyshoter/simple

sim your self to find out :v)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pW5mWY9nkfWoRCOHfoXqeeGb8s-jMoSVy-g8uveUv4c/preview  is a guide on how to sim your self.
credits ; paladin's discord. https://discord.gg/hammerofwrath

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Guest Alcaman

i got a question , why is eye for an eye even an option ? name me 1 boss that does physical dmg currently to anyone but tanks in EN and second  why also would someone not pick justicar's vengeance in raids ??  it's the best ability there is, realistically it can save you , world of glory seems also a bad choise especially on keystones ( haven't gone further than 9 yet ) ussually getting something down faster is better than off-healing , we got LoH for that sort of situations anyway 

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Guest Apox

I'm unsure if it has been posted but it's also worth noting at higher gear levels there is another haste breakpoint at 31.25% haste, making haste at that level significantly better than all other stats, even strength, and making blade of wrath far more tantalizing than Blade of Justice.

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Guest Apox
4 hours ago, Guest Alcaman said:

i got a question , why is eye for an eye even an option ? name me 1 boss that does physical dmg currently to anyone but tanks in EN and second  why also would someone not pick justicar's vengeance in raids ??  it's the best ability there is, realistically it can save you , world of glory seems also a bad choise especially on keystones ( haven't gone further than 9 yet ) ussually getting something down faster is better than off-healing , we got LoH for that sort of situations anyway 

One boss? Ursoc. 35% damage off Cacaphony and focused gaze charge in mythic,especially at the end, is awesome. That's why it's an option.

 

Justicar's vengeance is a truly awful talent at higher gear levels, the damage it deals is insignificant on bosses for it's cost, you need them to be stunned to do any real damage to get any real healing, and it doesn't synergize with anything else we use otherwise(Final verdict, Might of the Templar, Echo of the Highlord). You'd need divine purpose to make it worth pressing, which is just a strictly worse talent choice right now.

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      Fire’s array of maintenance buffs has been a sore spot in Dragonflight, and its something we’re looking to address moving forward-- especially given the addition of the Aberrus tier set as talents in the Fire tree.
      Firemind is our first removal, but we’re also being sensitive to the fact that Firemind didn’t require you to play around it very much, so its removal might not be doing much to simplify the landscape of Fire’s maintenance buffs.
      We’re also simplifying Improved Scorch’s damage amplification effect to be less punishing when its dropped, but also allowing it to be opt-in complexity. Fire Mages who want increased execute damage without the addition of another maintenance buff should look towards Down in Flames, a new choice node against Improved Scorch.
      Feel the Burn is on our radar, but its output is impactful enough that it serves as a great way to express skill for Fire Mages who have mastered its gameplay. New talents along with effects from the Frostfire and Sunfury trees are increasing player’s access to Fire Blast and Phoenix Flames, so keeping Feel the Burn up should be easier than ever before.
      That’s all for this update. We’re excited to read all of your feedback on the new Fire talents!
      And here are the specific changes from the development notes:
      Fire (Source)
      Fire Fuel the Fire is now baseline New Talent - Lit Fuse: Consuming Hot Streak has a small chance to grant Lit Fuse. Lit Fuse makes your next Phoenix Flames apply Living Bomb to up to three targets. Living Bomb explodes after 2 sec, dealing damage to the target and up to 5 nearby enemies. Up to 5 enemies hit by this explosion gain Living Bomb, but this effect cannot spread further. New Talent - Explosive Ingenuity: Consuming Hot Streak has a higher chance of granting you Lit Fuse. Living Bomb damage increased by 50%. New Talent - Down in Flames (Choice node with Improved Scorch): Scorch deals 300% damage to targets below 30% health. New Talent - Quickflame (Choice node with Flame Patch): Flamestrike damage increased by 25%. New Talent - Focused Fury: Living Bomb deals more damage the fewer targets it hits, up to 300% at 1 target. New Talent - Mark of the Fire Lord: Flamestrike and Living Bomb apply Mastery: Ignite at 100% increased effectiveness. New Talent - Spontaneous Combustion (Choice node with Improved Combustion): Casting Combustion refreshes up to 3 charges of Fire Blast and up to 3 charges of Phoenix Flames. New Talent - Charring Embers: Phoenix Flames applies Charring Embers to all enemies it damages, increasing their damage taken from you by 5% for 12 sec. New Talent - Fire’s Ire: When you’re not under the effect of Combustion, your critical strike chance is increased by 2.5%. When you’re under the effects of Combustion, your critical strike damage is increased by 2.5%. Two-rank talent. New Talent - Explosivo: Casting Combustion grants Lit Fuse. While under the effects of Combustion, consuming Hot Streak has a substantially increased chance to grant you Lit Fuse. New Talent - Blast Zone: Lit Fuse can now apply Living Bomb to up to five targets. Living Bombs can now spread to eight enemies. New Talent - Ashen Feather (Choice node with Majesty of the Phoenix): If Phoenix Flames hits only one target, it deals 50% increased damage and applies Ignite at 100% effectiveness. New Talent - Majesty of the Phoenix (Choice node with Ashen Feather): When Phoenix Flames damages 3 or more targets, your next 2 Flamestrikes have their cast time reduced by 1.5 sec and their damage is increased by 20%. Fervent Flickering has been redesigned: Now reduces the cooldown of Fire Blast by 2 sec Controlled Destruction has been redesigned: Damaging a target with Pyroblast increases the damage it receives from Ignite by 2%. This effect stacks up to 25 times. Developers’ notes: This talent is currently stacking past 25. This is not intentional and will be corrected in a future update. Improved Scorch has been redesigned: Casting Scorch on targets below 30% health increases the damage the target takes from you by 5% for 12 sec. This effect stacks up to 2 times. Flame Accelerant has been redesigned: Every 12 seconds, your next Fireball, Flamestrike, or Pyroblast has a 40% reduced cast time. Unleashed Inferno has been redesigned: While Combustion is active your Fireball, Pyroblast, Fire Blast, Scorch, and Phoenix Flames deal 50% increased damage and reduce the cooldown of Combustion by 1.25 sec. While Combustion is active, Flamestrike deals 25% increased damage and reduces the cooldown of Combustion by 0.25 sec for each critical strike, up to 1.25 sec. Convection has been redesigned: When a Living Bomb expires, if it did not spread to another target, it refreshes its duration. A Living Bomb can only benefit from this effect once. Pyromaniac has been redesigned: Casting Pyroblast or Flamestrike while Hot Streak is active has an 8% chance to repeat the spell cast at 100% effectiveness, but the copied spell cannot contribute to Hot Streak. This effect counts as consuming Hot Streak. Phoenix Reborn has been redesigned: When your direct damage spells hit an enemy affected by Charring Embers 20 times, the damage of your next 2 Phoenix Flames is increased by 200% and they refund a charge on use. Call of the Sun King is now in Gate 1 Searing Touch has been removed. Searing Touch’s critical strike threshold functionality is now baseline to Scorch. Improved Scorch’s movement speed increase is now baseline to Scorch. Incendiary Eruptions, Firemind, and Tempered Flames removed. Firestarter, Intensifying Flame, Inflame, Controlled Destruction, Wild Fire, and Flame Accelerant are now in Gate 2. Flame On is now 1 point and no longer reduces the cooldown of Fire Blast. Critical Mass is now 1 point. Wildfire is now 1 point. Conflagration has been removed. Fevered Incantation is now 2 points Sun King’s Blessing now grants Sun King’s Fury after consuming 10 Hot Streaks. Hyperthermia now has an activation overlay.
    • By Staff
      The Earthen join the Allied Race roster in this week's War Within Alpha build! Blizzard detail their current Alpha experience, as well as their racial abilities and future plans.
      Earthen (Source)
      Greetings, Alpha testers!
      With today’s Alpha update, testers can all rock the Earthen first hand.
      First, some context.
      To get right into the action, new Earthen on the Alpha bypass their starting quest experience. We also have abilities that are in the final stages of design but aren’t quite ready in terms of visuals or corner-case functionality. If you’d like a higher level experience, you can create a template character using an Earthen, but in this release, we’re particularly looking for your impressions of the extensive customization options the Earthen have to offer. Feel free to show us your awesome creations!
      We’re also looking for your thoughts on the set of racial abilities we’ve imbued in our rocky friends.
      Earthen’s active ability is Azerite Surge, an empower spell which has the following effects:
      (We’re still working on the visuals for this spell, so expect to see changes in the near future as we refine it.)
      Azerite Surge–
      Draw upon your inner strength. Release to invoke the power of Azerite, dealing $s1 Fire damage. Empowering has the following effects: Stage 1: Deals Fire damage to enemies. Stage 2: Heals allies for a moderate amount. Stage 3: Deals additional Fire damage to the highest health enemy. Additionally, Earthen have four other characteristics/traits:
      Ingest Minerals – You are always Well Fed, but cannot consume food. Activate Ingest Minerals to consume a gem and change the benefit granted to you by Well Fed. Hyper Productive – Increases Finesse, which increases the chances of gathering additional materials. Titan-Wrought Frame – Base armor from items is increased by a moderate amount. Wide-Eyed Wonder – When you gain experience for exploring a location, gain additional exploration experience. Please let us know what you think in this thread. Thank you!
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