Jump to content
FORUMS
Damien

Retribution Paladin 7.3

Recommended Posts

Guest Eridius

I'm a little confused by the advice with Execution Sentence to cast Judgement and then immediately cast it. Since it's now the time the proc triggers rather than when the spell was cast that matters, wouldn't it make more sense to cast ES, build up some more holy power, and then judge? That way you can cram more holy power abilities into that judgement. Or is there something I'm missing here?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jest

First time/guest poster.  After reading the vitriol from other commenters, I too wish to express my gratitude to the folks that maintain this site.  Updating most of the guides the day the patch went live was rather surprising and greatly appreciated.  Thanks and don't let the bastards get you all down.

Seriously folks, if you're not offering constructive criticism (and there were a few very helpful posts in that vein), shame on you.  Vent your rage in more productive ways.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Guest Eridius said:

I'm a little confused by the advice with Execution Sentence to cast Judgement and then immediately cast it. Since it's now the time the proc triggers rather than when the spell was cast that matters, wouldn't it make more sense to cast ES, build up some more holy power, and then judge? That way you can cram more holy power abilities into that judgement. Or is there something I'm missing here?

The thing here is that if you gather 5 holy power then precast es then BoW to use the 3 TV  it's 8 GCDs gone without a spender being used at the start of a fight with the ring being popped which is not worth, I'd just CS>BoJ>CS>J and go.

And since you have 30 % haste your judgement will always line up with its duration

Sims strongly suggest that you always want to use judgment on cooldown mid-fight regardless.

just no need to build for a window that has no meaning for single target. Of course pooling and waiting can still be a thing when adds are about to come in.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Guest Jest said:

First time/guest poster.  After reading the vitriol from other commenters, I too wish to express my gratitude to the folks that maintain this site.  Updating most of the guides the day the patch went live was rather surprising and greatly appreciated.  Thanks and don't let the bastards get you all down.

Seriously folks, if you're not offering constructive criticism (and there were a few very helpful posts in that vein), shame on you.  Vent your rage in more productive ways.

 

On July 20, 2016 at 3:56 AM, Guest Rave said:

Pretty surprised to see plenty of hate from the community. Sure the beta has been out for a while but suddenly putting a massive blame on such a revered webpage who puts out guides for the community as a SERVICE is very disheartening to see. Have some class and respect for people going out of their way to offer help to the community. Sure no one is perfect but they are still the best around. Give them time fix their mistakes instead of offering such unsupportive feedback. Seeing all this entitlement makes me sick to my stomach. 

Thank you both for your posts. We really do appreciate it, because as you know, people are much more inclined to post the negative feedback than the positive one on the Internet, often forgetting that there are real people behind the guides. Fortunately, we've learned to develop something of a thick skin after years of running the website.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest cremor
11 hours ago, Blainie said:

I might be wrong here, but I believe CLC Ret can be made to work as an addon if you configure it. You could set custom rotations and priorities in WoD.

clcRet (and clcInfo) can only be configured to use abilities that it knows. All the new 7.0 abilities and talents won't work. And of course the whole Judgment debuff thing won't work either.

Since the author of those addons stopped playing in mid 2015 and hasn't even logged in with his Curse account since February 2016 I doubt that there will be an update.

You could add Hekili as an alternative. It isn't updated for 7.0 yet, but the author is working on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just reads the comments after sending damien items I thought needed to be updated and a few things I mentioned are what has been posted here so look for those updates to be coming soon. Thank you all again for your patience while we get the guide properly adjusted to reflect the changes in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gratz on updating your informaion. I'm the guy that pointed out Justicar's Vengance. As I play classes and learn them I will be happy to alert you if any information is incorrect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Conquest said:

I just reads the comments after sending damien items I thought needed to be updated and a few things I mentioned are what has been posted here so look for those updates to be coming soon. Thank you all again for your patience while we get the guide properly adjusted to reflect the changes in the game.

Those updates haven now been in for a while, so the guide should be as up to date as it is before new developments/feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Solitarie

I am reading through the guide and it just feels somewhat fragmented. What I mean is that if you start on the first page and actually read through it, you see the points that were updated and those that were not very clearly. Specific examples include on page 1, the "Significant 7.0.3 Changes" reads as before, but based on the comments provide and the changes to the talents and rotations page, this gives a false impression of the state of the class after the patch. 

A second example would be on the stat priority page. You updated haste under "1. Basics" to reflect the requirement for 30% haste, but the "2. Getting a better understanding" section was not updated at all with this. Unfortunately that would mean that you do not, in-fact, get a better understanding of the stats. 

The talents/rotation pages received significant updates, but the rest just feels fractured as far as being updated. I do love the guide and still/will have it book marked. 

Thumbs up for great work in the short amount of time you have had!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the situation presents itself, and you're at 4 Holy Power with only Blade of Wrath off CD, would you start Judge phase or wait for Crusader Strike to free up a charge, or even over-cap with a Blade cast? 

Ive been starting a judge phase, personally, in that situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

If the situation presents itself, and you're at 4 Holy Power with only Blade of Wrath off CD, would you start Judge phase or wait for Crusader Strike to free up a charge, or even over-cap with a Blade cast? 

Ive been starting a judge phase, personally, in that situation.

If i correctly understand what you tried to say, then yes you start the judge phase.

So the rotation will be like assuming you have 4 holy powers with cs on cd which is 2.79 seconds

Judgement   >    ES(if you took it)/TV (1 holy power left)  >    boW ( this will put you back to 3 holy) > TV > Cs >CS> Judgement > boW > tv > Cs > cs> tv, and you keep going on.

and assuming you have 30% haste the uptime of the judge debuff and judgement cd will be equal, so its always better to use it on cd if you got the right amount of haste.

Edited by Farion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Apox

I'm glad to see the guide updated. For the most part it's accurate now. Will change slightly at 110 with max artifact, but it's a very solid starting point for learning retribution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Guest Solitarie said:

I am reading through the guide and it just feels somewhat fragmented. What I mean is that if you start on the first page and actually read through it, you see the points that were updated and those that were not very clearly. Specific examples include on page 1, the "Significant 7.0.3 Changes" reads as before, but based on the comments provide and the changes to the talents and rotations page, this gives a false impression of the state of the class after the patch. 

A second example would be on the stat priority page. You updated haste under "1. Basics" to reflect the requirement for 30% haste, but the "2. Getting a better understanding" section was not updated at all with this. Unfortunately that would mean that you do not, in-fact, get a better understanding of the stats. 

The talents/rotation pages received significant updates, but the rest just feels fractured as far as being updated. I do love the guide and still/will have it book marked. 

Thumbs up for great work in the short amount of time you have had!

I'm tweaking the Significant Changes section slightly (I realize it doesn't reflect the state of the class that clearly), but for the rest, I'm not sure what you mean. I rather prefer keeping the "Getting a Better Understanding" somewhat meta-neutral, instead just explaining what effect each of the stats has on the spec. If there was more to say about the 30% haste cap (maybe there will be), it might be in a 2.1 subsection.

Thanks for the comments :) 

2 hours ago, Guest Apox said:

I'm glad to see the guide updated. For the most part it's accurate now. Will change slightly at 110 with max artifact, but it's a very solid starting point for learning retribution.

Thank you for your comment, I really appreciate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bruenir

The biggest problem I see with this guide (and I am not a theorycrafter nor have I played my paladin seriously since WotLK is that Crusader Strike is listed as main part of the rotation.  It's not even part of the Retribution spec.  I started leveling (lvl 91) and thought - hey at least I can get used to the rotation, but the rotation is leaving me going .. "huh"? I have large points where i'm doing nothing, as everything is on CD.  Any tuning of that would be useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We just got Solsacra to review the guide. He pointed out two minor things, so the guide is rock solid now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bear

So glad you guys are on top of the changes as they're happening or better data comes in; it's awesome that we have such a wealth of knowledge to turn to.  Keep up the good work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Saralia

After Elitistjerks fading i'm really glad to see a reliable source of information (and free aswell !) so i can improve. I took a break from the game and just came back with the pre-patch, so i really appreciate the time and effort your willing to take to give us detailed information about what's going on.

The last i want to ask for is, could you give us some general stat weights in numbers so i can fix my pawn values ? Because im not very experienced with simcraft and its kinda patchwerk and very personalized. I do understand the importance of the Haste cap of course, but i like just hovering over an item and get a short information if its better or not.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Elrigh

First of all I want to say that I appreciate your work and that Icy-Veins is still my first Choice when I search for Rotations and Guides.

I had used the update version of the guide until I had a discussion on reddit. Someone pointed out that Judgement Debuff only affects Holy Power Spenders (now).

Seems like you changed the guide in some points to meet the new effect. But a big part of the Guide does not make sense anymore.

Why should I keep the Debuff up all the time during the fight, if most of my abilitys do not take advantage from it. You still recommend Haste as important Stat but only because of the Judgement Debuff. And in the Rotation you recommend to cast Judgement before Executioner Sentence AND to keep the buff up when Executioner Sentence hits. But why, when Executioner Sentence is not taking advantage of the Debuff?

Wouldn´t it make more sence to try to cast as many Final Verdict/Divine Storm in the time the Judgment Debuff is up instead of casting Judgment and wasting time casting spells which do not take advantage of the Debuff? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are all the most up to date sims for ret (that I know of) each link is organized by the first tier talent. 
ES: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/1hrvg6bou5nn5qa/EScombo.html?dl=0

FV: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/b4iyyv8teqjh9m1/FVcombo.html?dl=0

Cons: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/6xloo0uwmnjlzez/Conscombo.html?dl=0

 

6 hours ago, Guest Elrigh said:

First of all I want to say that I appreciate your work and that Icy-Veins is still my first Choice when I search for Rotations and Guides.

I had used the update version of the guide until I had a discussion on reddit. Someone pointed out that Judgement Debuff only affects Holy Power Spenders (now).

Seems like you changed the guide in some points to meet the new effect. But a big part of the Guide does not make sense anymore.

Why should I keep the Debuff up all the time during the fight, if most of my abilitys do not take advantage from it. You still recommend Haste as important Stat but only because of the Judgement Debuff. And in the Rotation you recommend to cast Judgement before Executioner Sentence AND to keep the buff up when Executioner Sentence hits. But why, when Executioner Sentence is not taking advantage of the Debuff?

Wouldn´t it make more sence to try to cast as many Final Verdict/Divine Storm in the time the Judgment Debuff is up instead of casting Judgment and wasting time casting spells which do not take advantage of the Debuff? 

Execution Sentence now consumes HP so it will be affected by the judgment debuff. And if you take a look at the break down of damage on logs (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6dPVYC1fhRaxgZHQ#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=7) your top damage should always be your finishers unless the fights are faster than it could be skewed. The more haste you have, the more often you'll be doing extra finisher damage. It's how the class is built. I hope that answers your question, unless I misread it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2016 at 3:28 AM, Farion said:

If i correctly understand what you tried to say, then yes you start the judge phase.

So the rotation will be like assuming you have 4 holy powers with cs on cd which is 2.79 seconds

Judgement   >    ES(if you took it)/TV (1 holy power left)  >    boW ( this will put you back to 3 holy) > TV > Cs >CS> Judgement > boW > tv > Cs > cs> tv, and you keep going on.

and assuming you have 30% haste the uptime of the judge debuff and judgement cd will be equal, so its always better to use it on cd if you got the right amount of haste.

If we're not haste capped yet, since I'm still at about 18% from being 15% capped WoD...

What are your thoughts on the rotation if you're at 4HP and Judgement is still on CD, with the above situation? 

Let the autoattacks roll until Judgement is up or CS comes back up for the last HP?  Or over-run your HP with a BoW cast? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/20/2016 at 6:31 PM, Guest AttackYeFace said:

5.1.1. Pooling Holy Power

You can have up to a maximum of 5 Holy Power at one time. However, no ability that consumes Holy Power can consume more than 3, which means that you do not need to dump your Holy Power as soon as it reaches 3 charges, and you can continue to use Holy Power-generating abilities at 3 charges.

UPDATE

Justicar's Vengance spends 5 holy power.

Please, update and fix.

I think their point is that with  JV is that you only use it when DP procs. So while you are technically correct, if you follow the guide then you would never use an ability that spends 5HP.

The implication seems to be that there is no advantage to building to 5HP unless you are waiting for Judgement to come off CD. Is that correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ezenthor

You might want to add something about attempting to use JV when the judgement debuff is up in addition to using it when DP is procced. It's not entirely necessary as you have a lot of other things going on, but it is important to note (I feel) that the damage is increased when judgement is used as it's a holy power spender. I was actually surprised to not read anything about that and had to do my own in game testing to make sure that it was affected by judgement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Under Food it says that Savage Feast etc. will give you a Haste buff. It won't, it gives you a Strength Mastery buff, unless there is some way to change your "attuned stat".

 

 

Edited by Ffont
Strength->Mastery (was an error)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Testament

There´s one thing left I would mention for maximising your dps outside of boss fights.

The fist of justice (Tier 3 Level 45) talent increases your performance of justicars vengeance. You can stun your target more often, so the damage of jv always doubles. Very usefull in pvp either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym
      It seems we're getting a whole lot of Alterac Valley soon, as Classic is getting the 1.12 version in one of the latter content releases and we're getting the special 15th Anniversary edition on live servers in Patch 8.2.5 during the event! Today at midnight CEST there's another Play with the Blues event on the 8.2.5 PTR gathering all Valley enthusiasts and all you have to do is hop on to the PTR and use the Group Finder to jump in!

      You can get the high-rez versions of the two original mounts from the event, which you can check out here as well.
      Play with the Blues (source)
      Tomorrow 12:00 AM CEST, please join us on the 8.2.5 PTR for an old school Alterac Valley Play with the Blues.
      Starting promptly at 3:00 p.m. PDT, Blizzard employees will be testing our 15th Anniversary rendition of AV on the PTR, and you can join us for some strife in the Field of Strife.
      Please log into the PTR by that time and then open your Group Finder (default hotkey: i) and switch to the Player vs. Player tab. You’ll see Alterac Valley waiting for you to join.
      Afterward, please return to this thread with your feedback.
      Thank you!
    • By Stan
      The news image above is fan art created by Dogslug. You can find more of his work here.
      Blizzard mentioned multiple times that they would add Allied Races whenever they fit the story. The Horde's hottest candidates are currently the Vulpera of Vol'dun, even though their story doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now. Recent rumors suggest that Gilgoblins could be in the final pair of Horde Allied Races too.
      The Vulpera currently have too many unique animations, and they are a community-favorite. Pretty much every Horde player wants them to become playable. They're coming, and it's just a matter of when. We think the first set of Allied Races will be introduced in Patch 8.2.5 with the second one coming in Patch 8.3.5. Based on datamining, the Vulpera should be live on or before September 20th. You can find all their customization options here.

      On the other side of the spectrum, the Alliance will get Mechagnomes led by Prince Erazmin of Mechagon, but it's still not clear what the second race will be.

      Lightforged Forsaken led by Calia Menethil are a possibility based on the Before the Storm novel and Calia also received a new model in the initial Patch 8.2.5 build.
      Next up are Gilgoblins! We encounter them in zones like Vashj'ir and Nazjatar in Patch 8.2. They are a species of aquatic goblins created by Hobart Grapplehammer. Gilgoblins are very similar to traditional Goblins. They have various tattoos and fins on their arms to help them swim.

      Gilgoblins are currently not included in the game files as playable races as opposed to Mechagnomes and the Vulpera. They only exist as creatures.

      The female model has more customization options compared to the male model. Would you like to see them become playable in the future?

      We know that Blizzard wants to add more customization options to World of Warcraft, and a recent leak suggests that all Allied Races will become customization options in Patch 9.0 except for the Nightborne and the Vulpera. Let's see what the first set of Allied Races is going to be now that Patch 8.2 should hit Public Test Realms reasonably soon!
      TL;DR
      The first set of Allied Races (Mechagnomes/Vulpera) coming in Patch 8.2.5 on or before September 20th. The final set of Allied Races will include Gilgoblins and Lightforged Forsaken (based on the Before the Storm novel) in Patch 8.3.5. We know that Mechagnomes and the Vulpera are coming, but what about the second set of Allied Races?
    • By Stan
      We're one week away from WoW Classic launch. This week, you can get a piece of Heroic Palace armor from the weekly quest.
      Highlights
      Artifact Knowledge will continue to increase until October 1. Queen Azshara nerfs are now live ahead of Classic launch. The Classic development team conducted a Reddit AMA and shared more details about the intended player cap for dungeons and cleared some layering misconceptions. Read our recap of the AMA for a full summary of highlights! Mythic Keystone Affixes
      Fortified Sanguine Quaking Beguiling Weekly Quests
      Collect 36,000 Azerite from Island Expeditions for Azerite for the Alliance & Azerite for the Horde to receive 3,500 Azerite and 1,500 reputation with Honorbound/7th Legion. Complete 4 Mythic BfA Dungeons for Emissary of War to receive a cache which contains a piece of Heroic Eternal Palace gear. Nazjatar World Boss
      Players can kill Wekemara this week for ilvl 415 loot.
      Tidal Lurker's Greathelm Naga Ritualist's Mantle Spitcharged Shoulderguards Chestguard of the Submerged Belt of Rising Guardians Deepcaller's Clasp Serpentskin Splashers Wekemara's Warboots Shockbiter's Fang World Events
      Battle for Azeroth Dungeon Event (August 20th - August 27th)
      Blizzard (Source)
      The Battle for Azeroth Dungeons Bonus Event is underway!
      THIS WEEK
      All week, open Group Finder (default hotkey: I) to queue for any Battle for Azeroth dungeon on Normal or Heroic difficulty.
      Alternatively, get a group of veteran dungeoneers together and travel to one of the Battle for Azeroth dungeons on Mythic difficulty:
      Atal’Dazar Temple of Sethraliss The Underrot The MOTHERLODE!! Freehold Shrine of the Storm Tol Dagor Waycrest Manor Look for the following all week long:
      Chronicler Shoopa in Zuldazar or Chronicler Toopa in Boralus has a quest for you – Emissary of War. Or, if you forget to pick it up there, you can start it within the Adventure Journal. Quest requirement: Complete 4 Battle for Azeroth dungeons on Mythic difficulty. Rewards: One loot box containing a piece of gear from Heroic difficulty The Eternal Palace. Passive bonus: The final boss in each dungeon drop additional loot on all difficulties (except Mythic Keystone difficulties.) EVERY WEEK
      The Bonus Events system consists of a rotating schedule of different activities, currently scheduled to run each week beginning on Tuesdays. Each Bonus Event grants a passive bonus to a particular game activity and offers a once-per-event quest with a noteworthy reward for accomplishing a related goal. The in-game calendar can serve as your one-stop reference for the event schedule. The Adventure Guide also offers a direct link to active Bonus Events, allowing you to easily accept any associated quests.
      PvP Brawl: Arathi Blizzard (August 20th -  August 27th)
      Blizzard (Source)

      Frozen Arathi Basin (Resource Race)
      Put away your bathing suit, pull out your parka, and enter a winter wonderland as the Arathi Basin you know and love gets a fresh coat of ice and snow. You'll be racing your way between the farm, stables, mine, lumberyard, and blacksmith through piles of snow and over a - mostly - frozen lake. One more thing: the weather forecast calls for a bit of fog of war. We hope you're prepared for the weather.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Dono's Top 50 Legend Taunt Warrior Deck.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Robot Wizard's Top 50 Legend Highlander Zoo Warlock Deck.
×
×
  • Create New...