Damien

Retribution Paladin 7.3

279 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Retribution Paladin guide for Legion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a little confused by the advice with Execution Sentence to cast Judgement and then immediately cast it. Since it's now the time the proc triggers rather than when the spell was cast that matters, wouldn't it make more sense to cast ES, build up some more holy power, and then judge? That way you can cram more holy power abilities into that judgement. Or is there something I'm missing here?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First time/guest poster.  After reading the vitriol from other commenters, I too wish to express my gratitude to the folks that maintain this site.  Updating most of the guides the day the patch went live was rather surprising and greatly appreciated.  Thanks and don't let the bastards get you all down.

Seriously folks, if you're not offering constructive criticism (and there were a few very helpful posts in that vein), shame on you.  Vent your rage in more productive ways.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Guest Eridius said:

I'm a little confused by the advice with Execution Sentence to cast Judgement and then immediately cast it. Since it's now the time the proc triggers rather than when the spell was cast that matters, wouldn't it make more sense to cast ES, build up some more holy power, and then judge? That way you can cram more holy power abilities into that judgement. Or is there something I'm missing here?

The thing here is that if you gather 5 holy power then precast es then BoW to use the 3 TV  it's 8 GCDs gone without a spender being used at the start of a fight with the ring being popped which is not worth, I'd just CS>BoJ>CS>J and go.

And since you have 30 % haste your judgement will always line up with its duration

Sims strongly suggest that you always want to use judgment on cooldown mid-fight regardless.

just no need to build for a window that has no meaning for single target. Of course pooling and waiting can still be a thing when adds are about to come in.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Guest Jest said:

First time/guest poster.  After reading the vitriol from other commenters, I too wish to express my gratitude to the folks that maintain this site.  Updating most of the guides the day the patch went live was rather surprising and greatly appreciated.  Thanks and don't let the bastards get you all down.

Seriously folks, if you're not offering constructive criticism (and there were a few very helpful posts in that vein), shame on you.  Vent your rage in more productive ways.

 

On July 20, 2016 at 3:56 AM, Guest Rave said:

Pretty surprised to see plenty of hate from the community. Sure the beta has been out for a while but suddenly putting a massive blame on such a revered webpage who puts out guides for the community as a SERVICE is very disheartening to see. Have some class and respect for people going out of their way to offer help to the community. Sure no one is perfect but they are still the best around. Give them time fix their mistakes instead of offering such unsupportive feedback. Seeing all this entitlement makes me sick to my stomach. 

Thank you both for your posts. We really do appreciate it, because as you know, people are much more inclined to post the negative feedback than the positive one on the Internet, often forgetting that there are real people behind the guides. Fortunately, we've learned to develop something of a thick skin after years of running the website.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Blainie said:

I might be wrong here, but I believe CLC Ret can be made to work as an addon if you configure it. You could set custom rotations and priorities in WoD.

clcRet (and clcInfo) can only be configured to use abilities that it knows. All the new 7.0 abilities and talents won't work. And of course the whole Judgment debuff thing won't work either.

Since the author of those addons stopped playing in mid 2015 and hasn't even logged in with his Curse account since February 2016 I doubt that there will be an update.

You could add Hekili as an alternative. It isn't updated for 7.0 yet, but the author is working on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just reads the comments after sending damien items I thought needed to be updated and a few things I mentioned are what has been posted here so look for those updates to be coming soon. Thank you all again for your patience while we get the guide properly adjusted to reflect the changes in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gratz on updating your informaion. I'm the guy that pointed out Justicar's Vengance. As I play classes and learn them I will be happy to alert you if any information is incorrect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Conquest said:

I just reads the comments after sending damien items I thought needed to be updated and a few things I mentioned are what has been posted here so look for those updates to be coming soon. Thank you all again for your patience while we get the guide properly adjusted to reflect the changes in the game.

Those updates haven now been in for a while, so the guide should be as up to date as it is before new developments/feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am reading through the guide and it just feels somewhat fragmented. What I mean is that if you start on the first page and actually read through it, you see the points that were updated and those that were not very clearly. Specific examples include on page 1, the "Significant 7.0.3 Changes" reads as before, but based on the comments provide and the changes to the talents and rotations page, this gives a false impression of the state of the class after the patch. 

A second example would be on the stat priority page. You updated haste under "1. Basics" to reflect the requirement for 30% haste, but the "2. Getting a better understanding" section was not updated at all with this. Unfortunately that would mean that you do not, in-fact, get a better understanding of the stats. 

The talents/rotation pages received significant updates, but the rest just feels fractured as far as being updated. I do love the guide and still/will have it book marked. 

Thumbs up for great work in the short amount of time you have had!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the situation presents itself, and you're at 4 Holy Power with only Blade of Wrath off CD, would you start Judge phase or wait for Crusader Strike to free up a charge, or even over-cap with a Blade cast? 

Ive been starting a judge phase, personally, in that situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

If the situation presents itself, and you're at 4 Holy Power with only Blade of Wrath off CD, would you start Judge phase or wait for Crusader Strike to free up a charge, or even over-cap with a Blade cast? 

Ive been starting a judge phase, personally, in that situation.

If i correctly understand what you tried to say, then yes you start the judge phase.

So the rotation will be like assuming you have 4 holy powers with cs on cd which is 2.79 seconds

Judgement   >    ES(if you took it)/TV (1 holy power left)  >    boW ( this will put you back to 3 holy) > TV > Cs >CS> Judgement > boW > tv > Cs > cs> tv, and you keep going on.

and assuming you have 30% haste the uptime of the judge debuff and judgement cd will be equal, so its always better to use it on cd if you got the right amount of haste.

Edited by Farion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad to see the guide updated. For the most part it's accurate now. Will change slightly at 110 with max artifact, but it's a very solid starting point for learning retribution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Guest Solitarie said:

I am reading through the guide and it just feels somewhat fragmented. What I mean is that if you start on the first page and actually read through it, you see the points that were updated and those that were not very clearly. Specific examples include on page 1, the "Significant 7.0.3 Changes" reads as before, but based on the comments provide and the changes to the talents and rotations page, this gives a false impression of the state of the class after the patch. 

A second example would be on the stat priority page. You updated haste under "1. Basics" to reflect the requirement for 30% haste, but the "2. Getting a better understanding" section was not updated at all with this. Unfortunately that would mean that you do not, in-fact, get a better understanding of the stats. 

The talents/rotation pages received significant updates, but the rest just feels fractured as far as being updated. I do love the guide and still/will have it book marked. 

Thumbs up for great work in the short amount of time you have had!

I'm tweaking the Significant Changes section slightly (I realize it doesn't reflect the state of the class that clearly), but for the rest, I'm not sure what you mean. I rather prefer keeping the "Getting a Better Understanding" somewhat meta-neutral, instead just explaining what effect each of the stats has on the spec. If there was more to say about the 30% haste cap (maybe there will be), it might be in a 2.1 subsection.

Thanks for the comments :) 

2 hours ago, Guest Apox said:

I'm glad to see the guide updated. For the most part it's accurate now. Will change slightly at 110 with max artifact, but it's a very solid starting point for learning retribution.

Thank you for your comment, I really appreciate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest problem I see with this guide (and I am not a theorycrafter nor have I played my paladin seriously since WotLK is that Crusader Strike is listed as main part of the rotation.  It's not even part of the Retribution spec.  I started leveling (lvl 91) and thought - hey at least I can get used to the rotation, but the rotation is leaving me going .. "huh"? I have large points where i'm doing nothing, as everything is on CD.  Any tuning of that would be useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We just got Solsacra to review the guide. He pointed out two minor things, so the guide is rock solid now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So glad you guys are on top of the changes as they're happening or better data comes in; it's awesome that we have such a wealth of knowledge to turn to.  Keep up the good work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After Elitistjerks fading i'm really glad to see a reliable source of information (and free aswell !) so i can improve. I took a break from the game and just came back with the pre-patch, so i really appreciate the time and effort your willing to take to give us detailed information about what's going on.

The last i want to ask for is, could you give us some general stat weights in numbers so i can fix my pawn values ? Because im not very experienced with simcraft and its kinda patchwerk and very personalized. I do understand the importance of the Haste cap of course, but i like just hovering over an item and get a short information if its better or not.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all I want to say that I appreciate your work and that Icy-Veins is still my first Choice when I search for Rotations and Guides.

I had used the update version of the guide until I had a discussion on reddit. Someone pointed out that Judgement Debuff only affects Holy Power Spenders (now).

Seems like you changed the guide in some points to meet the new effect. But a big part of the Guide does not make sense anymore.

Why should I keep the Debuff up all the time during the fight, if most of my abilitys do not take advantage from it. You still recommend Haste as important Stat but only because of the Judgement Debuff. And in the Rotation you recommend to cast Judgement before Executioner Sentence AND to keep the buff up when Executioner Sentence hits. But why, when Executioner Sentence is not taking advantage of the Debuff?

Wouldn´t it make more sence to try to cast as many Final Verdict/Divine Storm in the time the Judgment Debuff is up instead of casting Judgment and wasting time casting spells which do not take advantage of the Debuff? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are all the most up to date sims for ret (that I know of) each link is organized by the first tier talent. 
ES: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/1hrvg6bou5nn5qa/EScombo.html?dl=0

FV: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/b4iyyv8teqjh9m1/FVcombo.html?dl=0

Cons: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/6xloo0uwmnjlzez/Conscombo.html?dl=0

 

6 hours ago, Guest Elrigh said:

First of all I want to say that I appreciate your work and that Icy-Veins is still my first Choice when I search for Rotations and Guides.

I had used the update version of the guide until I had a discussion on reddit. Someone pointed out that Judgement Debuff only affects Holy Power Spenders (now).

Seems like you changed the guide in some points to meet the new effect. But a big part of the Guide does not make sense anymore.

Why should I keep the Debuff up all the time during the fight, if most of my abilitys do not take advantage from it. You still recommend Haste as important Stat but only because of the Judgement Debuff. And in the Rotation you recommend to cast Judgement before Executioner Sentence AND to keep the buff up when Executioner Sentence hits. But why, when Executioner Sentence is not taking advantage of the Debuff?

Wouldn´t it make more sence to try to cast as many Final Verdict/Divine Storm in the time the Judgment Debuff is up instead of casting Judgment and wasting time casting spells which do not take advantage of the Debuff? 

Execution Sentence now consumes HP so it will be affected by the judgment debuff. And if you take a look at the break down of damage on logs (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6dPVYC1fhRaxgZHQ#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=7) your top damage should always be your finishers unless the fights are faster than it could be skewed. The more haste you have, the more often you'll be doing extra finisher damage. It's how the class is built. I hope that answers your question, unless I misread it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2016 at 3:28 AM, Farion said:

If i correctly understand what you tried to say, then yes you start the judge phase.

So the rotation will be like assuming you have 4 holy powers with cs on cd which is 2.79 seconds

Judgement   >    ES(if you took it)/TV (1 holy power left)  >    boW ( this will put you back to 3 holy) > TV > Cs >CS> Judgement > boW > tv > Cs > cs> tv, and you keep going on.

and assuming you have 30% haste the uptime of the judge debuff and judgement cd will be equal, so its always better to use it on cd if you got the right amount of haste.

If we're not haste capped yet, since I'm still at about 18% from being 15% capped WoD...

What are your thoughts on the rotation if you're at 4HP and Judgement is still on CD, with the above situation? 

Let the autoattacks roll until Judgement is up or CS comes back up for the last HP?  Or over-run your HP with a BoW cast? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/20/2016 at 6:31 PM, Guest AttackYeFace said:

5.1.1. Pooling Holy Power

You can have up to a maximum of 5 Holy Power at one time. However, no ability that consumes Holy Power can consume more than 3, which means that you do not need to dump your Holy Power as soon as it reaches 3 charges, and you can continue to use Holy Power-generating abilities at 3 charges.

UPDATE

Justicar's Vengance spends 5 holy power.

Please, update and fix.

I think their point is that with  JV is that you only use it when DP procs. So while you are technically correct, if you follow the guide then you would never use an ability that spends 5HP.

The implication seems to be that there is no advantage to building to 5HP unless you are waiting for Judgement to come off CD. Is that correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might want to add something about attempting to use JV when the judgement debuff is up in addition to using it when DP is procced. It's not entirely necessary as you have a lot of other things going on, but it is important to note (I feel) that the damage is increased when judgement is used as it's a holy power spender. I was actually surprised to not read anything about that and had to do my own in game testing to make sure that it was affected by judgement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Under Food it says that Savage Feast etc. will give you a Haste buff. It won't, it gives you a Strength Mastery buff, unless there is some way to change your "attuned stat".

 

 

Edited by Ffont
Strength->Mastery (was an error)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There´s one thing left I would mention for maximising your dps outside of boss fights.

The fist of justice (Tier 3 Level 45) talent increases your performance of justicars vengeance. You can stun your target more often, so the damage of jv always doubles. Very usefull in pvp either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym

       
      Redditor Vorsa believes to have found the potential location of N'Zoth's prison in Battle for Azeroth by studying the maps!
      It's kind of an open secret that there will be moderate to heavy Old God involvement in the plot of Battle for Azeroth, potentially even later being revealed as the spark for the renewed Alliance/Horde animosity. N'Zoth and the Void Lords were expected to be the next expansion after Legion for quite a while, but with BfA it seems like we're either getting a mixed bag with PvP focus and Old Gods, or, which I think is more likely, BfA will be the bridge expansion between us fighting the Legion and then full on fighting the Void Lords in the next one.
      However, redditor Vorsa has delved into some old maps and thinks he found the potential location of N'Zoth's prison/Ny'alotha on the Battle for Azeroth map. It makes perfect sense if we'll be getting to see the old god/his city in BfA, as it's positioned smack down in the middle between Zandalar and Kul Tiras:

      So, is Ny'lotha going to be BfA's Argus type final patch? Is it going to bridge over into a full-on Old God/Void Lord expansion or will be dealing with N'Zoth himself directly in BfA? Will the whole Horde/Alliance scuffle turn out to be a complete Old God manipulation?
      What do you guys think?

      Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/7em58b/don_your_tinfoil_hat_because_this_makes_a_whole/
       
    • By Pain
      Hello guys i would like to share my weakauras for each healing class, hope you like it ;)
      Any feedback is appreciated
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      New to Weakauras ?
      You can download it here :
      https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/weakauras-2
      Copy - paste the code of which you can find down below  (Import string) On the wago.io webpage links you can find a copy string button on the right, colored red.
      Like this :  When ingame type /wa to open the control panel of weakaura. Select "import" Paste the string from the wago webpage into this. A screen will pop-up and select the import button on it. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Update Log :
      17-06-17 : Alot of changes to the Shaman Healing tool and a few to the Druid Healing tool.
      26-06-17 : Massive update for Holy palading Healing tool !
      01-07-17 : Massive update for Holy Priest Healing tool !
      16-07-17 : Big improvement for the Druid Healing tool. 
      29-07-17 : Shaman healing tool now supports legendary's and trinkets from 7.2.5
      25-08-17 : Massive update for Disc Priest healing tool 
      26-08-17 : Tuned Paladin and Druid healing tool and some small improvements
      02-09-17 : Small update for Holy Priest healing tool
      15-09-17 : Shaman healing tool now supports PvP feature's and some tuning to Paladin healing tool
      22-10-17 : Shaman healing tool has been redesigned and improved !
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Summary :
      Shaman Druid Paladin Priest Monk ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Shaman 

      Resto Shaman - Healing Tool
       
      Import string :  https://wago.io/SJAG4cTub        ←
      ________________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Riptide - off cooldown
      Healing rain - off cooldown
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Resto Shaman - Small Healing Tool
      If you prefer a smaller setup, you might like this one. (But doesnt cover everything)

      Import string :  https://wago.io/H1SpVcaOZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Resto Shaman - Cooldowns

      Import string : https://wago.io/r1JWBcp_Z       ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Resto Shaman - Usable cooldowns

      Import string :  https://wago.io/S1u7HqpdZ       ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Druid 
      Druid - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/H1ZvS9p_b       ←
      _______________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Life-Bloom - when its about to expire from target
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Druid - Cooldowns

      Import string : https://wago.io/rJnjBqaOZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Paladin
      Paladin - Healing tool

      Import string : https://wago.io/BkQJU96dZ        ←
      ________________________________________________________
      What's making sound :
      Holyshock - off cooldown
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Paladin - Cooldowns

      Import string :  https://wago.io/rJibIqTdZ       ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Paladin - Light of Dawn info *additional*

      Import string : https://wago.io/HyrN6y4YZ         ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Priest
      Holy Priest - Healing Tool

       
      Import string : https://wago.io/H1PU8qa_Z        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Holy Priest - Cooldowns

      Import string :  https://wago.io/HJvY89au-       ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Holy Priest - Trail of light Talent Tracker *Additional*

      Import string :  https://wago.io/EyclhaZuZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Disc Priest - Healing Tool

      Import string :  https://wago.io/SyCn89TdZ        ←
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
      Monk
      Since i know little about monk healing, i do not feel like ill be the right person to try and make a weakaura
      for the monk, but i've got a link from someone else his. Since i still want to be some what helpfull to
      any healing class.
      https://wago.io/4yaTFmN6G        ←
      *credits to Emarline*
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    • By Stan

      In order to improve the AoE performance of Shadow Priests in short duration multitarget situations, changes are planned for the class with next week's maintenance.
      Blizzard (Source)
      With the next weekly maintenance, we'll be shifting around some of Shadow Priests' damage sources with the goal of improving their AOE damage performance in short-duration multitarget situations - namely dungeon trash packs.

      The nature and lifetime of dungeon trash packs makes it hard for Shadow Priests to ramp up to their full damage potential as part of their rotation. These changes should improve that situation, with a mostly neutral effect for overall performance in longer-duration raid fights.  Void Eruption No longer deals a separate damage event for each of your Shadow Word: Pain or Vampiric Touch on each target. Instead, deals a single damage event to all targets that have EITHER your Shadow Word: Pain or Vampiric Touch. Void Eruption damage increased by 700% Shadow Crash Cooldown reduced to 20 sec. (down from 30 sec) Insanity generation increased to 20. (up from 15) Missile speed increased by 60%. Mind Sear (Passive) Damage increased by 50%. Heart of the Void (Legendary) Increases Void Eruption’s damage by 75% (down from 300%) and heals you for 25% (down from 40%) of the damage done. Developers Note: This is compensation for the Void Eruption buff. The overall effect is mostly neutral. Shadow Word: Pain/Vampiric Touch Damage reduced by 4%. Developers Note: This is compensation for the Void Eruption buff in extended fights.
    • By Stan

      World of Warcraft is currently on discount and redditor Gankeros pointed out an interesting fact; a level 100 boost costs just $25 and that's not the only thing!
      Level 100 Boost for $25
      Up to 8 World of Warcraft licenses can be attached to a single Battle.net account. The best thing is that the level 100 boost is account-wide, so after you activate the secondary game license, you can use the level 100 boost on your main (primary) license.
      Go to Account Management and under "Game Accounts", navigate to World of Warcraft and select the "Play for free" option to create a new World of Warcraft license. You should be then offered a WoW bundle for $25 / 25 EUR.
      Other Benefits of 2 World of Warcraft Accounts
      The standard Battle Chest comes with 30 days of game time and Black Friday is the ideal time to buy another WoW copy in case you've ever wanted to try out multiboxing. ISBoxer should be your go-to multiboxing software for World of Warcraft. They even offer a trial and it's really easy to set up. Don't forget to recruit yourself before doing any of this!
      If you don't need Legion, it's still good to least buy the Battle Chest for gold making. The first account is obviously your main and the second can be used for sniping. It gets even better if you have two monitors and you log in simultaneously on both accounts. Sniping is well worth it and the account will pay for itself in the long run. What exactly is sniping? The process of constantly checking the last page of the Auction House for cheap deals using preset filters. The main issue with a single license is that you can't be logged in on two characters at the same time. With two accounts, you can have one constantly sniping the Auction House, while you're playing your main.
    • By Vlad
      This thread is for comments about our Aggramar guide.