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Damien

[Archived] Demonology Warlock 5.4

91 posts in this topic

I noticed you listed Arcanum of Hyjal, aren't they getting rid of head enchants this tuesday?

Awesome guide though! Thank you so much! Posted Image

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Thank you for spotting this! I checked and indeed, Head Enchants are going away with Patch 5.0.4. I've always been under the impression that this would only happen when MoP is released.

The guides are currently being updated to fix this small issue ;)

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Damien, myself and other Simmers are coming up with Haste > Mastery > Crit for Demonology. Not sure what information you want/need to make the change, but I can email you or link some simulation numbers to justify my claim.

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Was it with Tier 13? I'd like to see the numbers please. I've just run a quick simulation on simcraft, just now, and didn't get the same stat priority.

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Raid-Buffed Unbuffed Gear Amount Strength 90 86 20 Agility 92 88 20 Stamina 9748 8763 7869 Intellect 8365 7558 7029 Spirit 258 258 75 Health 179497 165707 0 Mana 100000 100000 0 Demonic Fury 1000 1000 0 Spell Power 12255 10334 2786 Spell Hit 15.00% 15.00% 1537 Spell Crit 24.88% 18.64% 948 Spell Haste 29.94% 23.76% 3042 Mana Per 5 6497 6188 0 Attack Power 165 142 0 Melee Hit 15.00% 15.00% 1537 Melee Crit 13.38% 8.36% 948 Melee Haste 23.76% 23.76% 3042 Swing Speed 36.13% 23.76% 3042 Expertise 0.00% 0.00% 0 Armor 10340 10340 10250 Tank-Miss 0.00% 0.00% 0 Tank-Dodge 0.30% 0.29% 0 Tank-Parry 0.00% 0.00% 0 Tank-Block 0.00% 0.00% 0 Tank-Crit 0.00% 0.00% 0 Mastery 18.67% 13.69% 1020

Just to show the ratings, Haste is CLEARLY favored while Mastery has 1020 rating and Crit has 948. This is the maximum DPS parsing for T13 Heroic.

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OMG, that looked great before I hit post...sorry for the jumble of numbers.

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I'll deploy a new version of the guide with Haste > Mastery > Crit in the evening.

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I apologize if I missed it, but I did not see Imp Swarm discussed at all in the guide. Thanks for the guide!

Edited by houndstooth

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In the Demonology Warlock DPS Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities (WoW MoP 5.0.4) post it was written:


2. Demon

Always use a Felguard, your Demonology-specific demon. If, for any reason, you chose Grimoire of Supremacy as your Tier 5 talent, then use a Wrathguard (the Felguard upgrade).


But further down on the post it says:

5.3.1. Grimoire of Supremacy

The Observer remains the demon with the highest DPS.

So which is better to use? Wrathguard or Observer?

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Ty for the guide. For anyone who is confused about the demons. Check your pet bar. I logged into find mine was reset.

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Question about the pet Choice, WHAT specificly makes the observer out preform the Wrathgaurd , but the Felgaurd out preformed the Felhunter. Just curious on the findings, was it the clone magic effect, the tongue or just over all butter numbers, i do remember blizz saying they wanted them to be more utility and normalizing the damage of the pets but i guess it didnt pan out :(

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I believe the mention of the observer may be a typo as I have not seen it suggested anywhere else that the observer is best pet for Demonology.

Simulationcraft.org has simmed out all the demons and Wrathguard is currently #1 (if you want to take Grimoire of Supremacy) with Felguard #2. I will say I am 100% sure the sim results as recently as yesterday had Felguard as #1 so obviously, it's subject to change at the moment. And I think it's still correct that Grimoire of Service is more dps than Grimoire of Supremacy.

Edited for the link to simulation results: Simulationcraft.org

Edited by houndstooth

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In the Guide:

" Posted ImageSacrificial Pact can be used smoothen frequent damage spikes."

"...smoothen..."?

Although that word may exist it is, to say the least, an exceptionally ugly option.

The approriate method would be to use the word "smooth" in its verb form i.e. "...can be used to smooth frequent damage spikes" where it can apply to any past, present or future tense or event.

Edited by Branah

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Question about the pet Choice, WHAT specificly makes the observer out preform the Wrathgaurd , but the Felgaurd out preformed the Felhunter. Just curious on the findings, was it the clone magic effect, the tongue or just over all butter numbers, i do remember blizz saying they wanted them to be more utility and normalizing the damage of the pets but i guess it didnt pan out :(

I believe the mention of the observer may be a typo as I have not seen it suggested anywhere else that the observer is best pet for Demonology.

Simulationcraft.org has simmed out all the demons and Wrathguard is currently #1 (if you want to take Grimoire of Supremacy) with Felguard #2. I will say I am 100% sure the sim results as recently as yesterday had Felguard as #1 so obviously, it's subject to change at the moment. And I think it's still correct that Grimoire of Service is more dps than Grimoire of Supremacy.

Edited for the link to simulation results: Simulationcraft.org

This was indeed a type. It is fixed now. Earlier on in the guide, it did say that it's either a Felguard or a Wrathguard, depending on your choice of Tier 5 talent ;)

In the Guide:

" Posted ImageSacrificial Pact can be used smoothen frequent damage spikes."

"...smoothen..."?

Although that word may exist it is, to say the least, an exceptionally ugly option.

The approriate method would be to use the word "smooth" in its verb form i.e. "...can be used to smooth frequent damage spikes" where it can apply to any past, present or future tense or event.

Sorry about that, this has been reworded :)

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so been spending allot of time at the training dummies in UC trying to refine my rotation (Demo Lock) and I noticed something I thought was odd.

On the regular triaining dummy I do 40k or so and everything hits and all is well, but when I focus on the Raiding Training dummy my corruption almost always misses or doesn't get applied when trying to refresh.

My first thought was that my hit was too low but it is at the suggested 15% so whats the deal? Probably gonna do LFR today to see if it does the same thing or not. Waiting to do an actual raid cause I don't want to pug and then fail epicly at dps.... any thoughts?

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so been spending allot of time at the training dummies in UC trying to refine my rotation (Demo Lock) and I noticed something I thought was odd.

On the regular triaining dummy I do 40k or so and everything hits and all is well, but when I focus on the Raiding Training dummy my corruption almost always misses or doesn't get applied when trying to refresh.

My first thought was that my hit was too low but it is at the suggested 15% so whats the deal? Probably gonna do LFR today to see if it does the same thing or not. Waiting to do an actual raid cause I don't want to pug and then fail epicly at dps.... any thoughts?

Yes, the raiding dummy has already been updated for Mists of Pandaria and is level 93 instead of 88. I suggest you try out your DPS on a normal level 85 dummy.

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Just on racials and Burning Rush vs Unbound Will. As humans already have Every man for himself, and Unbound Will is basically the same effect, I found it more beneficial to choose Burning Rush as unbound will seemed wasted for my Human Warlock. Like you said it can be situational, however sometimes there are raid fights where having both were nice, for example the Spirit Kings. Where the madness buff comes on select players as well as fixate and there is also flanking order during the fight. I also found it beneficial during some of the dungeon fights as well in beta (where teleport or other were on CD or not available).

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Raid-Buffed Unbuffed Gear Amount Strength 90 86 20 Agility 92 88 20 Stamina 9748 8763 7869 Intellect 8365 7558 7029 Spirit 258 258 75 Health 179497 165707 0 Mana 100000 100000 0 Demonic Fury 1000 1000 0 Spell Power 12255 10334 2786 Spell Hit 15.00% 15.00% 1537 Spell Crit 24.88% 18.64% 948 Spell Haste 29.94% 23.76% 3042 Mana Per 5 6497 6188 0 Attack Power 165 142 0 Melee Hit 15.00% 15.00% 1537 Melee Crit 13.38% 8.36% 948 Melee Haste 23.76% 23.76% 3042 Swing Speed 36.13% 23.76% 3042 Expertise 0.00% 0.00% 0 Armor 10340 10340 10250 Tank-Miss 0.00% 0.00% 0 Tank-Dodge 0.30% 0.29% 0 Tank-Parry 0.00% 0.00% 0 Tank-Block 0.00% 0.00% 0 Tank-Crit 0.00% 0.00% 0 Mastery 18.67% 13.69% 1020

Just to show the ratings, Haste is CLEARLY favored while Mastery has 1020 rating and Crit has 948. This is the maximum DPS parsing for T13 Heroic.

I'm wondering... Where did you get these results from? In Simulation Craft, Haste seems to always be the worst possible stat in Tier 13 HC.

I apologize if I missed it, but I did not see Imp Swarm discussed at all in the guide. Thanks for the guide!

We discuss it a bit at the section 8. in the talent page. You should basically use it when you really really need the extra burst damage that it provides you with.

Just on racials and Burning Rush vs Unbound Will. As humans already have Every man for himself, and Unbound Will is basically the same effect, I found it more beneficial to choose Burning Rush as unbound will seemed wasted for my Human Warlock. Like you said it can be situational, however sometimes there are raid fights where having both were nice, for example the Spirit Kings. Where the madness buff comes on select players as well as fixate and there is also flanking order during the fight. I also found it beneficial during some of the dungeon fights as well in beta (where teleport or other were on CD or not available).

Thank you, I added a mention of this :)

SPell description is wrong.

Rotations section > 5.6 > dark bargain

Thank you, this was fixed ;)

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Hello, and thanks for the guide. In the Dark Apotheosis section you state you can only generate fury through your pet's attack and Corruption ticks. However, you can also use Hand of Gul'dan to generate fury through Shadowflame, since it doesn't transform to Chaos Wave as it does with Metamorphosis.

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Hi, first of all, thanks for the guide.

Also in the Dark Apotheosis section where you state you can only generate fury through your pet's attack and corruption tick (and hand of gul'dan shadowflame ticks, as mentioned above), you should note that Demonic slash does not only cost nothing, it actually generates 60 Demonic Fury when you use it. On a 4.5sec recharge, if you manage to never let it stack to 3 again, this equals about 13,333 Demonic Fury per Second generated - in addition to your pet, corruption, and shadowflame - I believe this should be far enough to stay in demon form constantly. Whenever I test this on a dummy, I go up to 1k Demonic Fury pretty quick. Also don't forget the imps which generate 5 Fury per Firebolt.

So yeah, you should be able to tank a whole fight with this.

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In play I'm actually seeing the Fel Imp (Glyphed) out-DPSing the Wrathguard, has anyone accounted for any anomalous activity that may make this seem the case? I'm showing the Wrathguard doing ~6k DPS by itself, and the Fel Imp pushing ~10k. Both pets are pushing about 2.3/sec generation rate on Demonic Fury, and I can't think of anything else that would make the Wrathguard more "optimal" overall outside of AoE fights. Is there so much of a difference at 90 that the Wrathguard suddenly pulls ahead in an instance where, all things equal, they should be on the same DPS increase curve?

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Hello, and thanks for the guide. In the Dark Apotheosis section you state you can only generate fury through your pet's attack and Corruption ticks. However, you can also use Hand of Gul'dan to generate fury through Shadowflame, since it doesn't transform to Chaos Wave as it does with Metamorphosis.

Hi, first of all, thanks for the guide. Also in the Dark Apotheosis section where you state you can only generate fury through your pet's attack and corruption tick (and hand of gul'dan shadowflame ticks, as mentioned above), you should note that Demonic slash does not only cost nothing, it actually generates 60 Demonic Fury when you use it. On a 4.5sec recharge, if you manage to never let it stack to 3 again, this equals about 13,333 Demonic Fury per Second generated - in addition to your pet, corruption, and shadowflame - I believe this should be far enough to stay in demon form constantly. Whenever I test this on a dummy, I go up to 1k Demonic Fury pretty quick. Also don't forget the imps which generate 5 Fury per Firebolt. So yeah, you should be able to tank a whole fight with this.

Thank you guys! I've amended the guide to reflect your comments :)

In play I'm actually seeing the Fel Imp (Glyphed) out-DPSing the Wrathguard, has anyone accounted for any anomalous activity that may make this seem the case? I'm showing the Wrathguard doing ~6k DPS by itself, and the Fel Imp pushing ~10k. Both pets are pushing about 2.3/sec generation rate on Demonic Fury, and I can't think of anything else that would make the Wrathguard more "optimal" overall outside of AoE fights. Is there so much of a difference at 90 that the Wrathguard suddenly pulls ahead in an instance where, all things equal, they should be on the same DPS increase curve?

I will test that later on and I'll get back to you. I will amend the guide if necessary :)

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