Balance AOE

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How do you guys handle heavy aoe fights (beast lord, operator, blast furnace)?

My RL showed me my log and the log of another druid with similar ilvl, and fight time for Beast Lord. He had more starfall than I did, but I had more star surges. It also didn't help me that I forgot to re-glyph starfall so it hit everything (oops). My dot usage looked good though. I do know I was trying to keep up my single target rotation as well as aoe, and that Probably hurt me. I'm not looking to pad the meters, but my RL feels I should be at, or near the top of the dps charts.

I don't have a log to post, as I am using my phone right now. But am I right in assuming that I shouldn't worry so much about keeping a perfect single target rotation, and save the charges for starfall? Also, how much of a dpa loss is it to starfall in solar?

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Hey Andanas,

- please post both logs asap so we can have a closer look onto

- Yep, you need that glyph!

- Keep Starfall up as much as possilbe....even in Solar, its no DPS loss because you will always deal with 3 or more targets

- try to have a Starfall ready for Pack Beast spawn

- try to be in Solar for Pack Beast spawn to 1 Dot every Beast around

- dont waste time by Moonfire Doting every single Pack Beast, it is not worthy....they just die too fast.

- keep both Dots rollin on spears

Edited by Bonita

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Thanks for the reply, Bonita.


My log from Beast Lord:

Other druid:


My Char.:


The other druid had a few more starfall casts than I did, but had over 4200 hits compared to my 1300.  That I think I can attribute to not having the glyph, or not having any charges due to using them on the boss when there were no adds up.  I was trying to moonfire the beast packs as well, but if it doesn't help, I'll not do that.


I'll take your word for it that Starfall in solar is not a dps loss, though I thought I read somewhere it was.  Maybe I read it wrong.

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i consider myself a very terrible boomkin, but on beastlord at 665 iLvl I did 56k dps and 76% of it was starfall...I completely abandoned single target, used every charge on starfall and dotted up the spears

Edited by nygax

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My log is a bit different, I've pretty much just single target dpsed stuff as we have warlocks who can just aoe burst-down all the stuff, and adds pretty much don't live longer than 1 starfall. What bothers me however is this:

I'm +7 ilvl compared to you, but on first 40 secs I did almost twice as much damage as you. That means you're doing your opener wrong. And if I've learned one thing from Kazistrasz it's that your opener is most important part of dps at the end of the fight smile.png As you can see I've spent most of my stacks on starsurge, dpsed ST and yet had 40k dps. If your raid comp is good at aoe'ing adds you won't have good aoe dps. If they stay alive longer - your dps will rise up. As I can see your raid is pretty strong at aoe, so you should weight when to aoe and when to ST.

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Hey Andanas,

- yes, put in that gylph. DPS loss if a Dot is required to get hit by Starfall

- yes, thats correct. You have read that Starfall is a DPSloss in Solar. If you deal against 2 targets. With 3 or more you're fine

- your openers was indeed weaker to Pinkis or mine.The reason can / could be the following:
  - your no troll / no berserkbuff available

  - a 2nd powerfull procing trinket is missing

  - your opener had some errors, which I will show you below

  - I see too many timegaps between your casts. Keep casting. Do not hesitate

  - you only had 4 Starfire casts within that 15 seconds uptime of CA

    (I get 9-10 with Darmac trinket, Berserking and ShardsofNothing /// Pnks had 7 with the same buffs as mine)


00:00:00.829 Andanas casts Starfire on Beastlord Darmac

00:00:00.901Andanas casts Solar Beam on Beastlord Darmac

00:00:00.901Andanas casts Celestial Alignment

00:00:00.901Andanas casts Void Shards

00:00:00.901Andanas casts Moonfire on Beastlord Darmac

00:00:02.450Andanas begins casting Starfire      <- Starfire1. you didnt Starsurge before. Starfire wasnt empowered. Also Moonfire GCD is 1 Sec. You took 1.5 sec between Moonfire and Starfire. 0.5 Secs wasted

00:00:05.169Andanas casts Starsurge on Beastlord Darmac   <- 1st Starsurge. You now have 2 Empow. buffs up

00:00:07.414Andanas begins casting Starfire     <- Starfire 2. GCD of Starsurge 1 Sec. Gap is 2.3 secs. 1.3 secs wasted

00:00:09.928Andanas casts Starsurge on Beastlord Darmac      <- Only 1 Starfire casted before. You still had 1 Buff up. No need for Starsurge here

00:00:11.058Andanas begins casting Starfire      <- Starfire 3

00:00:12.754Andanas begins casting Starfire      <- Starfire 4

00:00:14.319Andanas casts Starsurge on Beastlord Darmac

00:00:15.619Andanas casts Starfall

00:00:15.978Andanas's Celestial Alignment fades from Andanas    <- CA buff faded

00:00:17.889Andanas casts Moonfire on Heavy Spear 1

00:00:18.995Andanas begins casting Wrath   <-- Nonono no in Lunar

00:00:20.376Andanas begins casting Starfire

00:00:21.981Andanas casts Starfire on raid8.pngHeavy Spear 1

00:00:24.154Andanas casts Moonfire on Heavy Spear 2      <- 2.2 secs gap between finished Starfire cast and Moonfire cast

00:00:26.112Andanas's Incarnation: Chosen of Elune fades from Andanas

00:00:27.365Andanas casts Starfall     <- Between 00:24 Moonfire and 00:27 Starfall you casted nothing..3 secs



Your weak OpenerDPS is related to what you see above:
You wasted 2 seconds of CA while not casting anything

and an additional 2.2 secs at the end of INC + that 3 seconds

Your Starfall cast at 00:15 and 00:27 didnt hit any Pack Beasts because of missing Glyph.

This one Wrath cast smile.png

Additional (for the Overall DPS), you had only used INC/CA twice in a almost 11 minutes fight. You coulda have 4

Edited by Bonita

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Looks like you wasted a lot of time doing whatever and got messed up with targeting, try to be in the middle of the room 7yds from anyone and get yourself /cast [mouseover,harm] Moonfire; Moonfire for the spear nameplates. Only move if there's a breath or spear heading your way. Try to focus on empowering your starfires and using shards when you can cast starfires most of the duration like when he's mourning a beast.

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Should I remain in Euphoria, or switch to Stellar Flare, or BoP for heavy aoe fights?

Edited by Andanas

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I recommend you the following based on real numbers by warcraftlogs-rankings:


- Blast Furnace: BoP or Euphoria


- Beastlord Darmac: Euphoria


- Iron Maidens: They're close together. Take talent where you feel most comfort with

*EDIT*: Euphoria or BoP

(if you are not assigned to jump to boat. if you are: Euphoria)


All others in BRF take Euphoria

Edited by Bonita

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(I get 9-10 with Darmac trinket, Berserking and ShardsofNothing /// Pnks had 7 with the same buffs as mine)

I'll steal some of this thread.. :}

I usually get to cast 8, and it don't feel like I could fit in any more. Maybe that's because I use Darmac's unstable talisman (h) instead of shards of nothing (h) ? Is it worth switching back?

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I'll steal some of this thread.. :}

I usually get to cast 8, and it don't feel like I could fit in any more. Maybe that's because I use Darmac's unstable talisman (h) instead of shards of nothing (h) ? Is it worth switching back?



Yes it is because of Shards of Nothing.

No do not switch back. As I can see from Armory you have Darmac (Haste) and Oregorger (crit) trinkets. They are BiS. Even 680 of them is better than 685 Shard of Nothing. That 1 cast less you have compared to me is compensated by the crit procc you get

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Why are you teaching him to pad on the spears? He shouldn't be wasting time putting dots on them, just kill the damn boss? Starfall alone from just one boomkin will be able to finish them off eventually. It's only when you're about to get the spears empowered by fire you want to finish them off, and from there you dot them, but that's like the very end of the fight. 

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Why are you teaching him to pad on the spears? He shouldn't be wasting time putting dots on them, just kill the damn boss? Starfall alone from just one boomkin will be able to finish them off eventually. It's only when you're about to get the spears empowered by fire you want to finish them off, and from there you dot them, but that's like the very end of the fight. 

Spears don't really melt, even on Heroic. You do want to dot them up and have starfall going so they're taken care of over the course of the fight. Go do mythic beastlord and come back and tell me how you didn't dot the spears and just killed the damn boss.

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Spears don't really melt, even on Heroic. You do want to dot them up and have starfall going so they're taken care of over the course of the fight. Go do mythic beastlord and come back and tell me how you didn't dot the spears and just killed the damn boss.


aye. Correctly.

The goal is to do max DPS and to be helpful for the raid. A Boomkin is helpul for the raid, esp on mythic Beastlord, by Doting and Starfall the spears. The Boomkin will have a nice DPS (and happy bout it) and the raid itself will be thankful of good spears management.


and yes yes Shedim, as long as the spears arent empowered by fire they could potentially do single DPS to Beastlord...But tbh why?? Let them Dot the spears and keep Starfall up. If you want to do single target DPS play another class...if you want to be usefull by what the class is giving you.... DOT the spears ohmy.png

Edited by Bonita

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OP specifically said he didn't want to pad the meters, so why are you telling him to? 

It is certainly not needed to dot the spears until they empower. I killed Beastlord Mythic on the 11th of February. I do not dot the spears and I am the only boomkin. Starfall itself will deal with the spears over the fight. You're mistaken because you irrationally think the spears need to be killed quickly - like getting overwhelmed is a bad thing. Just let the spears grow in numbers, ignore them. You don't even need to Starfall or touch them in any way for the first minute. They're completely irrelevant. Once the spears are about to get empowered, you finish them off by dotting them if needed. You'd be surprised how low they already are due to Starfall and passive cleaving from other classes like Barrage. Once they catch on fire you dot them up as they spawn. 


Bonita, just because moonkins can potentially top the meters, it doesn't mean killing the spears is their purpose in this fight. "if you want to be useful by what the class is giving you... DOT the spears" - how is padding the meters useful in any way? It seems you're unable to distinguish between what is best for the raid and what will give you good looking ranks at the cost of a much slower kill. 

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well, it is that easy...You have your opinion, I have mine. Ppl here asking for help have a free choise who to listen too.
For me...I look into the logs of them and I am showing them what they did wrong and where, In my opinion, they could improve.

If you have a diffrent opinion, post any helpful info for them instead of Mimimi everything I am suggesting. This would be more helpful for them, thx.

Edited by Bonita

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Wow, I didn't intend for this thread to start such a debate.  


Anyway, we killed Beast Lord again yesterday, and here's that log:


An improvement for sure, but can be better.  I know the opener was very weak, and for a couple of reasons.  I didn't want to use all my star surges, and not have any starfall for the first beast pack, and the boss is almost immediately moved to where the packs come out, and out of range.  I also didn't use long term cooldowns as well as I could have.

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That is why I am telling him to stop thinking about his overall dps and start focusing on being a good raider. It's not about opinions, it's about someone coming to ask for help and us providing the best advice. If you like to dot the spears, fine by me. But it is certainly not the most optimal thing to do.


Andanas, compare your damage distribution to spears over time with mine (I know mythic differs a bit from heroic)


As you can see, I am only focusing the spears once they are important (when they set on fire). Until then, they're completely irrelevant. Leave them be, so classes that get a single target dps increase from dotting the spears (like shadowpriests and demonology warlocks as example) can use them to increase their damage done on beastlord and the beasts. Depending on the raid composition you can even choose to ignore the pack beasts like I did (a lot of classes have passive cleave, which means they don't lose boss damage by killing the beasts. Boomkins lose a lot of boss damage by deciding to aoe, so only do so if absolutely needed because the tanks are otherwise struggling with the adds).


I am telling you this rather than correcting your actual gameplay, because the most important thing is to get your priorities straight, if you wish to become a good raider. Boomkins are strong on Beastlord because they provide excellent single target damage with the capability to switch to AoE damage once the spears become relevant to kill quickly. Many other classes can only do either, and need to decide beforehand by the choice of talents/spec. 


To get back to your original topic, I will try to provide some AoE advice for BRF (with emphasis on mythic difficulty):


Oregorger (credentials: World rank 2 mythic speed kill)

Euphoria for increased boss damage. During roll phase, run around and dot as many spears as you can. Displacer Beast can always get you out of any trouble. Try to keep Starfall up until most of the boxes have been killed, but keep in mind that the dot damage is the most significant. The obstacles in the room doesn't give you line of sight problems with the boss in this phase, so try to refresh your dots on the boss and get rid of excess starsurge procs. 


Beastlord (credentials: World rank 7 mythic on boss damage rankings)

Euphoria, especially for mythic difficulty where the entire fight is about the 1 minute single target nuke window at the end of the fight. Ignore spears at first, until right before he jumps on Dreadwing. From there and for the rest of the fight, apply your dots to they spears as they spawn and keep Starfall up. Make sure you position yourself near the center of the room, so your Starfall can actually hit all the spears. If add damage is absolutely needed, you can use Starfall as they spawn. Generally the adds are not a problem until the very last phase, where you keep Starfall up to kill the spears anyways. Using Sunfire on the adds can boost your add damage, but I wouldn't waste a global doing so as they should melt in seconds anyways. 


Flamebender (credentials: World rank 11 mythic on overall damage rankings)

Euphoria, no doubt. Use all cooldowns on pull, if you have the 4-piece bonus, your Celestial Alignment should be up again for the 1-minute dogs if you use heroism on pull (which you should). Precast Starfall as the dogs spawn and keep dots and Starfall rolling. Use second potion for the first set of dogs. Make sure your Starfall can actually hit all of them, if someone decides to kite them away from melee. Conserve your Celestial Alignment and your Incarnation as they come off cooldown and use them again for the 3:20-minute dogs. Third set of dogs should be ignored, as the boss should die around here. 


Operator Thogar (credentials: World rank 57 on mythic. Nothing special, but with a lot of warriors the adds melt before Starfall deals any significant damage)

Euphoria. Even though the heavy movement affects boomkins more than anyone else, we shine on this fight because of the many 3-target situations. When cannons arrive, dot them up and Starfall running. When adds arrive keep Starfall up, but don't dot them just focus on the boss. Try to save Celestial Alignment for when the Man-at-arms spawn. Once he spawns, precast Starfall, dot him and the firemender up, and then go single target nuts on the Man-at-arms. Position yourself places where nobody else can (like in the fire rings), to avoid too much movement due to people spawning grenades on you. You can do this, because of Displacer Beast. When the fire rings spawn for example, make sure to position yourself inside one. Few other people will be here. As you need to move lane, blink to another fire ring.


Kromog (credentials: Killed this at mythic, no stunning rankings as we have 3x Bladestorm, instantly killing the hands :/ )

Euphoria. Identify which hand positions are always the last ones to get killed. Precast Starfall and then try to dot all these up, so your dots last the longest possible (and so that you get these people out faster before they die). Rather spend time doing single target dps on hands with a lot of HP than dotting hands that will die in less than 5-6 seconds anyways. On mythic difficulty, your raid will bring a boomkin just because of the pillars. Make sure your Celestial Alignment are ALWAYS up for these. Time your eclipse bar with Astral Communion in a way, that allows you to dot the first pillar with both dots before the next one spawn, without using Celestial Alignment. (Eg. be in solar eclipse as the first pillar spawn, but time it so you move into lunar just as you have casted sunfire). As the second pillar spawns, precast Starfall, then use CA and apply both your dots to the second hand. As the third pillar spawns, dot it up and go full single target on this one. Consider ignoring refreshing your Starfall as it wears off, as single target damage on the third pillar is usually the issue. Starsurge gives you a lot of burst instead, but it depends on the situation. Ignore all damage on Kromog during this pillar phase, so try to refresh your dots on him before going into it. 


Iron Maidens (credentials: World rank 145 mythic kill, no stunning rankings as I'm on both ships)

Euphoria is the best talents here, because you want better single target nuke. If you're on the ship, this is no doubt the best talent. If you're not on the ship, you can consider BoP for slightly higher overall damage output. However, Euphoria is probably still better, because it enables you to help nuking Marak down faster and to kill the Turrets faster. This is more beneficial for progression. Once the content is on farm, you can switch to BoP for faster kills, as you know you're not in danger of wiping. 


An interesting alternative way of playing this fight is with Glyph of Celestial Alignment and Balance of Power. The idea is that you make your Celestial Alignment last for about a minute, only using charges on refreshing Starfall. In this way, you can have Celestial Alignment up for 1 minute. I did the math and calculated this to be a slight damage increase at the cost of very spread damage (you cannot control where this damage goes, which can be undesirable if you wish to nuke Marak quickly or kill Turrets faster). It makes your rotation much easier, especially when you have to dodge the turrets, as all you have to do is cast Starfall every 10 second. You get 8-9 globals in between where you have absolutely nothing to do (as using your Celestial Alignment charges on casting stuff would cause you to lose the buff). Use this time to put Rejuvenations on everyone. You can actually heal a significant amount. Consider using Heart of the Wild for this purpose, although Nature's Vigil provides about the same HPS if executed properly.

How do you execute this method? Before the bosses are brought below 20%, make sure to apply all yours dots on all targets before using Celestial Alignment. Try to hardcast Wraths, even in Lunar eclipse to extend your Sunfire (especially on Marak). As you bring them below 20%, cast Starfall THEN use Celestial Alignment. You now have 8 charges, of which 5 of them will be used to keep 100% uptime on Starfall. 2 of the charges should be used for the spawning turrets, and a last one can be used to refresh dots or cast a Starsurge. In between all this, spam Rejuvenations. You have plenty of mana for this. 


Blast Furnace (credentials: none, but got LFR rank 1 lol) 

This one is tricky, and I am myself progression on mythic here atm. First of all - this fight is a single target fight with several hard dps checks, disguised as an aoe/cleave fight. This is important to keep in mind. The dps checks are as follows:

1. Nuking Operators quickly

2. Killing Primal Elementalists within the window where the shield is down (1-2 windows depending on difficulty)

3. Killing the actual boss before the heat wipes your raid


Now, how do we tune our gameplay towards meeting these dps checks best? Euphoria is the answer. It gives us the ability to be near the top of the meters for single target nuke, as we can pool up 3 Starsurge charges. 

However, if your raid seems to struggle with killing the non-important adds (Security Guards, Engineers, Firecallers, as well as lowering the Slag Elementals to remove the Primal Elementalists' shield) Balance of Power might be the best talent of choice. If you feel you're getting overwhelmed by these adds, try Balance of Power. The optimal thing is still to use Euphoria though, as this allows you to reach phase 3 quicker. Also, I cannot emphasize this enough: do not use Starfall in phase 3. You see all these shiny boomkin rankings on warcraftlogs, but all they do is dotting the Slag Elementals in phase 3, when this isn't beneficial to the raid at all. If you want to be a good raider, be a bigger player than this. Ignore the dps charts, do what is needed to execute the mechanics properly.

Should you dot the adds throughout all the phases? This depends on your raid setup, your gear and the situation, so you need to figure this out yourself. I've listed the important dps checks, try to fulfill these. If you got plenty of dps on the Elementalists for example, feel free to start lowering the next Slags, by applying your dots and keeping Starfall up. On the other hand, if you struggle to kill the Primal Elementalists within the time the shield is down, disregard all aoe damage, even Starfall and try to nuke it as hard as you can. Boomkins should be near the top for single target nuke damage. 

Edited by Shedim

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sorry mate, I cant find a World rank 7 mythic on boss damage rankings for Beastlord...but ok if you say so, I will not doubt it

I just cant figure it out, why you..doing a 64k DPS with Starfall and Dots at spears at Beastlord while doing progress (1st/2nd kill), nowadays,a month later, decides to stop Starfall and Dot spears and do only 50k dps because of single... you bored?? ..But OK, its your decision.. I think its nuts.

And theres no real benefit for your guild becuase you single him...

And please dont say: "The fight will be over earlier if I do singletarget DPS" ...or I really must start laughing.


Well, I am not bored.. I am doing casual progress...2r/w ..with medium skilled people.. I do want max DPS. And ppl here also want it....I / We dont have the comfort you have in your 4r/w hardcore, we kill every boss a week after release, guild where your SPs, Mages, Locks etc are bad asses and do their 95% DPS....and are able to kill every damn spear spawned in just a few secs later in the fight...Nonono..medium skilled people need more time..:Time we/they dont have later when spears fire up..So, killing the spears "slowly" by DOT and Starfall prevents from lot of trouble later.


And generally said.... just because I am an casual raider (like the ones here looking for help), it doesnt mean everything I say is Bullshit and also doesnt mean everything you say is GOLD. If you think that way, i am sorry for you.


But to be fair and honest, i dont wanna fight you.. as already said..we are two diffrent thinking people. Its a forum...people have the choise who to listen to. And your suggestion for Maidens and CA-Glyph sounds interessting.

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Good point, why did I start out with dotting the spears on my initial kill and then stop on more recent ones? Because I didn't know better. We went in there on release date and killed it in a short time. When you haven't seen the fight before, you will by default start doing as much dps as you can. Not being on top of the exact mechanics, we just tried to kill the spears in a good pace. We've since then realized that the spears are a very low priority until they empower and using Starfall/dots to kill them early on serves absolutely no purpose at any level of play, even LFR. If you do this, it is purely to pad the meters because you think that is fun. That is alright with me, I will someday too try to get a good rank again and do it myself, but OP stated that he needed advice for boomkin AoE and that he did not wish to pad the meters. Then it doesn't matter if he is a casual player just playing once in a while or if he is raider looking to eventually compete for good ranks. I gave him the advice he asked for and the piece of advice you gave him "keep starfall up at all times", was not what he asked for. 


And please don't ridicule me, it is a poor way to try to win an argument. Wasting Starsurge procs on killing spears that would otherwise die from passive and free aoe damage WILL make the fight last longer, as you could've spent that time and those resources killing the boss quicker instead (eventually making sure your healers have more mana, making progression easier and reducing your chance of wiping). For the reference, here are the boss damage rankings for Beast Lord. It is not a super good metric either though, as the damage on the big beasts also matter and isn't included in these ranks.


Now, you say this is a forum. I guess the purpose is to discuss tactics, rotations, talents and all things boomkin so that we can all become better players. Combined we can figure out more little tricks, benefit from each others experience and save time by using other people's work. I myself rerolled boomkin for BRF and not more than 2 months ago I was reading the guides here on icy-veins trying to learn the basics. I come here stating my opinions, not only to help, but also in hope that others might challenge these opinions and argue why they think differently, because I could be wrong about some of this advice I'm giving - I could've missed something, and I would like to know if that is the case.


Sadly it is not where I see this debate going. Whenever I state something different from what advice you're giving people, you quickly end the argument by saying that you're just casual players and this doesn't apply to you. I am not trying to shove things down your throat, but if you engage in a forum post on how to optimize one's gameplay, then discussing how to optimize should be the topic of the thread. As soon as someone disagrees with you, you cannot just end the argument. How can any of these people trust your advice, if you cannot argue why it is the optimal way to play?


I admire your passions and dedication for helping new boomkins becoming better players. You are helping a lot of people. Personally I don't have the patience to go over logs again and again to correct the same mistakes. But if you're going to correct players, why not give them the best possible advice? Why just settle for trying to teach them how to be a mediocre player. If someone is going to make drastic adaptations to their rotation and game style, they might as well get it right the first time. I can here mention the example of the Lunar/Solar peak buff discussion we had. Why advice people to change something in their rotation that isn't the optimal thing to do, why not just teach them the proper and most optimal way to play at first, when it is not any more difficult. 

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      Ok first of I want to say that I really like the new Disc Priest. I never played priest before and the main reason I even got Legion was to play Priest and go Disc because it seemed cool and reminded me of other games that have had similar DPS heal transfer typ healers.
      I really enjoy the hectic play-style and high skill cap of the specc, mixed with doing damage, changing targets constantly etc, instead of the classic "Health bar Whacka-mole" game the other healers play.
      With that said I feel there are some major issues with the specc and some of the design. Contrary to what most other threads on here whining about Disc Priest I actually don't care to much if it's the "Best" or the "Worst" healer or generally how it compares to the other classes or speccs.
      I think it's kinda fine where it is in terms of overall power atm. I have been able to complete the things I've tried (for example +4 bolstering VoW almost getting the 3 chests, +6 bolstering Maw etc, at an iLvL of 840 with random pugs) so It's definitely not as terrible as some people claim, I haven't played any other healer in Legion yet (never even tried speccing Holy yet) so I don't really know if it's waaaay easier for them or not.
      So why am I whining then?
      Because a lot of, in my opinion "stupid" design things make Disc a lot less fun to play than it should be, and it doesn't have to be that way. It feels like they made a cool idea and plan for a specc and then never really finished it or thought through all the details of it.
      (Now a lot of this is mainly aimed towards Mythic+ but applies to raiding to some degree as well)
      It's supposed to be the DPS healer, this is what differentiates it from all the other healers and makes it unique, yet to be effective and actually succeed in healing Mythic+ you pretty much have to play the Shadowmend + Shield health-bar spam game (yes I know this may be different in raids) throwing in a penance when time allows.
      If it's supposed to be a niche role then make it at least decent at that role. Now I don't mind spot healing every now and then, that's completely fine, I understand Disc aren't supposed to be great Tank healers but Spot Healing shouldn't be the majority of the healing giving us no time to actually DPS, which is IMO what Disc should be doing most of the time. A holy paladin can pretty much out DPS a Disc priest in Mythic+.
      The play-style of Disc should IMO be much more rewarding when playing the proper "atonement up-time flawless DPS rotation weaving in a Shield or Shadowmend here and there to burst up someone and apply Atonement" rather than regular spot healing. If I wanted to spot heal I would be playing Holy Priest right? And maybe I'm stupid for playing Disc when Holy might just be strictly better, but I want to play the one I find challenging and enjoyable.
      So get more Mastery to make your Atonement heal more when you DPS you say?
      Well no because Mastery sucks. I can already increase my Atonement healing by just doing more DPS with Haste and Crit which also actually benefits all the Shadowmend and Shielding I have to do anyway. Why is Mastery so useless? I don't think even if it increased ALL healing done it would be worth it.
      And this is where we come to my main issue with the whole Disc priest and why I feel it's not "Finished" or "Polished" as a whole. Why are there so many things about it that just feel completely useless, uninteresting and boring, like Mastery.
      First of we have the Talents. Here I feel like there's very little choice or really anything interesting to choose, and they just overall feel really bland.
      Tier 1: Castigation really is the only choice here. The penitent is just plain terrible and further pushes the "Spot healing" theme which we are not supposed to be doing. Wasting our only good DPS ability to single target heal someone instead is just wtf in the theme of the specc. Schism of course has some sort of use and maybe if the DPS healing was stronger this could fit sometime.
      Tier 2: Utility stuff that's really up to personal preference. Even though I feel this tier is boring it may actually be the best designed one IMO, since really all of them feel like something I would choose in various situations. None of them feel useless compared to the others, GJ.
      Tier 3: Again a fairly poorly designed tier where it feels like Psychic Voice is always the answer. Shining Force can of course be good sometimes, especially in PvP and I'll admit I've never even tried Dominant Mind.
      Tier 4: Both good and bad I feel. The talents are all somewhat interesting and would be nice to pick but the problem is that Mindbender is just crazy strong making the others useless.
      Tier 5: Here we have an actual choice to make, Power Infusion or Twist of Fate?
      Power Infusion being the more fun and generally useful pick. I don't like the design of things such as Twist of Fate that really just "rewards or compensates" you for bad play. I'd rather have something that buffs you if you manage to keep your team UP, performing your role well. This also suits Disc play-style better since the main goal is pretty much to keep your team healthy and avoid panic situations where you're forced into Spot heal spam, this talent just promotes that "non disc play-style" again, similar to The Penitent on tier 1.
      Contrition is just bad, if it had a longer duration it could maybe be useful but it also feels like a boring choice that only serves to lower the skill needed to play Disc.
      Tier 6: This one feels pretty boring overall. Halo is useful in Raids, Divine Star is not really that useful in general but it's our only AoE choice, would be cool if atonement at least healed part of AoE DMG and not just the first hit. Clarity of Will I guess is considered garbage by most. I've actually tried it in Mythic+ and found it to work pretty well but really it's just a slower Shadow Mend and again it just forces you even closer to being a Spot healer like the others.
      Tier 7: Now this is where you have your first and only real choice to make it feels like.
      Do you go Purge the Wicked or Grace? You want both! That's great this is what choosing a talent should feel like!
      However, Grace again is another talent that just pushes you even closer to the Spot healing play style and away from what Disc was supposed to be! Why isn't this giving +30% healing through atonement healing instead? (must ofc not be +30%) to promote our intended play style?
      Purge the Wicked is probably the coolest talent Disc has together with Power Infusion. It promotes the DPS healing play style, has synergy with our main DPS ability Penance, rewards multi-dotting active play style, takes some skill to keep up on many targets and at all times, Good Stuff!
      Unfortunately Grace is almost always better (not in raids maybe) since Spot healing is pushed so hard.
      And then we have Shadow Covenant... Yea this just sucks in every way. Even if it didn't have the heal absorb drawback it still probably wouldn't be picked because it replaces Power Word Radiance, our only AoE Heal and Atonement applier, Wtf? Shadow Covenant should at the very least apply Atonement to everyone it hits, letting you heal them 6 sec later with Penance or something, creating some sort of strategy for using it and actually promoting the Atonement DPS play style rather than a crappy AoE Spot Heal.
      So to summarize the talents: Boring and no real though in what you choose. Almost nothing to customize according to personal preference. To many things that just encourages you to NOT play Disc priest the way it's supposedly intended and those that do are just to weak (Schism, Solace, Contrition, Divine Star).
      I would much like to see a talent that gives you a buff to place on someone increasing Atonement healing that person takes by say 100% to use on tanks or someone about to die, rather than crap like Grace that just makes you wonder why you're not playing Holy if you're going to play that type of healer anyway.
      And now for the even more boring choices; The Artifact Traits!
      What the hell is this? Does anyone find these interesting at all? The only trait in the entire tree that is fun is Power of the Dark Side, this is a good one. It makes something happen to react to, it promotes multi-doting, it promotes DPS heal via Penance and it's actually useful! Nice. Borrowed time is also a good one for pretty much the same reasons.
      Then we have the big one, Sins of the Many... This is a pretty strong trait, don't get me wrong but it has a major flaw. This is supposed to be pretty much the ultimate trait for Disc yet it kinda sucks at all times except for Raiding. Getting a buff of +1-5% damage when in a group or solo is pathetic and you can pretty much ignore the effects of it, putting Atonement on someone who doesn't need it at that moment isn't worth it, casting another smite or whatever is a better use of that time and mana.
      Why doesn't this work like some of the other healers abilities where it's power is increased in non raid situations, like Tranquility with it's 100% increased healing when not in raids. It could give at least +3-5% damage per Atonment when not in raids, making it about as potent outside of raids as inside. Also promotes keeping Atonment up on your group for the DPS increase if your mana allows it.
      Apart from these traits the rest are just completely uninteresting and only serve to take you the fastest way to get these 3. Since Power of the Dark side is on the Right side, this side is really the only path you would ever take in your Artifact tree. There is pretty much zero choice or customization involved regarding the Artifact. The Shadow Artifact traits feel a lot more interesting since there are some actual play-style defining alternatives to choose from and you actually want all of them but have to choose :).
      So to sum the Artifact traits up:
      Super boring, no real choices to make, nothing that defines or changes the way you play at all. Biggest trait is pretty much "raid only".
      This of course brings us to the inevitable complaints about the Artifact ability itself.
      I've seen plenty of fighting about this on the forums already and I have to agree with both sides. It is Not a super weak ability as most claim.
      It is however a super boring ability with a way to long cooldown that, again is really only good in raids! At the very least this should also go from a +10%/Atonement to a 30-50%/Atonement buff when not in raids, just like like Sins of the Many.
      Using the Artifact in a 5-man or when solo deals damage like a Penance but slow and clunky and Heals less than a Shadowmend if you want to burst the Tank up or something.
      I would personally much rather see this ability reworked completely to give it some interesting mechanic in line with the Shadow version, that one is cool. Right now it's just a Slow, Long CD, Immobile, Raid Specific, Mediocre damage and Mediocre heal when not in raids (or if you don't have sins of the many in a raid). It is basically a Shadow Bolt from Vanilla wow but with 90sec CD.
      Give it something special, something that promotes the Atonement play-style, something fun and interactive.
      Some example could be "When used refresh the duration of all your Applied Atonements" or "Increase the Duration of all Applied Atonements by 10 sec" or "Debuff the target for 5 sec giving everyone who attacks it Atonement" or "Increases healing done via Atonement by 100% for 10 sec" Just something that doesn't make it feel like I'm casting a Shadow Bolt in vanilla wow when I'm using my "ultimate" ability. A shorter Cooldown would definitely be preferred but that would of course have to depend on how strong it is. Anyway make it FUN to use not, Meh guess I may as well use this once in a while.
      Ok Sorry that was a very long Rant :) but the summary of it all is:
      I really like the new Disc priest and I just wish they would push the active good DPS heal, new play-style it was intended to have rather than make every choice an option to revert back to the usual type of healing making you wonder why you would't just play Holy instead. All in all it feels like a great concept for a fun and different healer experience that unfortunately seems to have been forgotten along the way.
    • By Sibelius
      Say I walk into the Eye of Azshara and 6 NPCs are pulled, as a Shadow Priest, what exactly do I do? Do I tab through them all and DoT them all up, then Mind Sear them? Do I just dot 2 or 3 of them, followed by a Mind Sear. Do I even dot any of them and just Mind Sear?
      I hope someone can give me a clear and concise explanation of how such AOE would be executed.
      Would be helpful!
    • By Cei
      I've just started using the Agonizing Poison build and I'm enjoying it, but I'm of course still having the ever-annoying problem of not being able to do much AOE damage.  I decided to try switching to deadly for trash (then back to AP for bosses ofc.), especially in aoe heavy dungeons and it seems to be giving me better results.  I would assume this is due to getting more immediate effects from DP than AP on quick pulls..  Does this make sense?  Or am I just imagining things?