Damien

Holy Paladin 7.1

81 posts in this topic

I could not find any reference to Light of the Martyr in the section "Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities".

Is it an omission or is it recommended to avoid using it?

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1 hour ago, Guest Leo said:

I could not find any reference to Light of the Martyr in the section "Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities".

Is it an omission or is it recommended to avoid using it?

Hey. Thanks for the comment; not including the spell was obviously an oversight, although it is not actually used in the healing rotation due to it being pretty poor. I'll be updating the guide to mention it, though.

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" The best talent in this tier is Aura of Mercy IconAura of Mercy, and we recommend always choosing it. Aside from increasing the range of your heals, it also increases the radius in which your Mastery: Lightbringer IconMastery: Lightbringer has maximum potency. The other two talents are simply not worth considering. "

 

Aura of Mercy tooltip says nothing about increasing range of heals or radius of Lightbringer, that seems to be Rule of Law from the Tier 2 talents.

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53 minutes ago, Guest Sellys said:

" The best talent in this tier is Aura of Mercy IconAura of Mercy, and we recommend always choosing it. Aside from increasing the range of your heals, it also increases the radius in which your Mastery: Lightbringer IconMastery: Lightbringer has maximum potency. The other two talents are simply not worth considering. "

 

Aura of Mercy tooltip says nothing about increasing range of heals or radius of Lightbringer, that seems to be Rule of Law from the Tier 2 talents.

From what I've seen so far today, most paladins are taking devotion aura as the raid CD, and only using this as a padding talent ATM.

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was kinda hoping youd have a better holy paladin to look over the guide and approve it. Youve got a holy paladin that hasnt even finished mythic raid on that toon. not to mention its an alt of a priest, meaning all his efforts isnt put into looking into paladins (imo). any chance of getting any other high ranking holy paladins to look at it?

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Hi,

Aura of Mercy is as good as Druid tranquility if you're on a 20 raid or above. For 10 people, Aura of devotion will be better than Aura of Mercy if absorption of devotion aura is superior to the Aura of Mercy heal amount. I think talent are correct and should be chosen depending fight mechanics. But in the case of a dungeon, Aura of mercy won't heal enough 5 people.

My thought is based on talents tooltip, I may be wrong but if you calculate based on a fight like Gorefiend, you should see that Devotion aura comes first.

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5 hours ago, Guest Aryøn said:

 

Mercy is likely to be the most useful go to choice.  Devotion's dmg reduction is only useful for the non passive CD where it effects all raid members within 40 yards.  Mercy may be a small tick of a heal but as long as you are aware of where your standing it can always be effectively healing those needing it and every 1 second is a solid addition to AOE healing which we can agree is about NILL from us, as well as a Devo cd that is a small tranq.  Remember the devotion talent is a 20% dmg redux spread among all those in range.  

 

However, having said that, if you are healing with a competent resto druid who chose to take the 60 seconds off their tranq timer, you might be better served taking devotion aura.  Your healing may suffer but as a team you will supply a strong raid wide dmg redux.  

 

These are initial thoughts based on what I noticed healing tonight and in beta and may change with further testing.

Edited by nictitate

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Blessings no longer remove each other. I tested it today on live and my party member have all blessing in same time. 

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Thanks for these posts. I'm going to look into these issues today and address them. Will keep you posted.

 

UPDATE: We've made a few updates to the guide which should fix some of the issues that existed. We'll also be keep an eye out over the next couple of days and making any more changes that may be needed. Thank you for the feedback!

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I strongly disagree with the notion that Beacon of Faith should never be taken. CURRENTLY, with the HFC 4-piece bonus, if you were to take Faith, you would still be hitting BOTH beaconed targets for 45% via transferring. That is a HUGE amount for BOTH tanks. I think this will change in Legion for sure, however.

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3 hours ago, Guest Nephilite said:

I strongly disagree with the notion that Beacon of Faith should never be taken. CURRENTLY, with the HFC 4-piece bonus, if you were to take Faith, you would still be hitting BOTH beaconed targets for 45% via transferring. That is a HUGE amount for BOTH tanks. I think this will change in Legion for sure, however.

I think the benefit is lost when you consider beacon of light bringer allows the tank to effect your mastery hitting melee.  It helps you with the biggest weakness we have right now, which is mobility.  For archimonde atm beacon of faith can still be a solid choice since both tanks are actively taking dmg from the boss or adds.  Beacon of Lightbringer allows us to give a full mastery heal on melee without being in melee.

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Could you please explain a bit more as to why a holy pally would not want to use Judgement of Light if the tank is also using it? It just seems like a good source of small ongoing heals with little attention needed.  Thank you!

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Only been a few days so far. But on a 691 Holydin, tank/melee healing, Light of the Martyr is my top heals and I am out healing what I used to do before the talent changes. About 45K (right up until I go OOM) when stacked within 10 yards. I spam LotM 8-10 times & then self-cast Holy Shock, with beacon on myself, it about balances with an occasional flash of light. Also hit LoD at 10.1 seconds and the same timing for Judgement (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Prism every 20 (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Then a cast heal for variety, and Light's hammer ever minute.

Top Heals :

1 Light of the martyr

2 Light of Dawn 

3. Judgement of Light 

4. Prism

Been very happy leading with LotM, except for the eventual OOM. But I don't think that is to blame - or at least not if I tweak it's use. It does need significant work, before progression raiding though, as it does obviously generate extra healing need. But as a makedo, to outheal the old spec inside a week of release is very pleasing.

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Wow really bad guide. You don't seem to actually know what Haste does lol! 

You know it lowers the CD on Holy Shock AND Light of Dawn now, on top of the other things you have there. 

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3 hours ago, Guest metrolol said:

Wow really bad guide. You don't seem to actually know what Haste does lol! 

You know it lowers the CD on Holy Shock AND Light of Dawn now, on top of the other things you have there. 

Are you really calling the guide "really bad", just because of something so minor?

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Honestly I can't seem to find myself agreeing with this post. Haste seems to be an incredibly valuable stat currently. Like someone else mentioned, it lowers the cooldown on two quite valuable heals. When we receive our Artifact Weapons I think crit will become a little less important because of how much we can get out of talents. I think with the lack of mobility we have that our Holy Shock and and Light of Dawn need to be empowered by as much haste as we can get, without sacrificing too much from other stats. I will agree that crit may be the most valuable stat right now, but I think haste is a bit more valuable then what is said here and there is very little information here that describes haste in its current state with our spec. I have a few other complaints as well, but this is what stands out to me.

I looked over the person you got from Serenity to give you the okay with this guide and I can't seem to find a reason why he/she was chosen. I don't mean this as a person attack on this person because I have nothing against them, but I think finding someone else could have been a bit more beneficial. Overall I think this guide could be reviewed, but with the patch being new I understand it not being 100% on point because this patch is just an unfinished product of what we will be getting in a months time. Either way, I appreciate the time put in to write this to help others.

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For those arguing pro haste; haste is a valuable stat that if you take some time looking through the gear is going to end up giving us a significant boost to that stat without having to focus on it heavily.  I can understand and agree with the adage (faster casts=more heals out= better healing) but allow me to argue in a different manner.  We currently have a class that is centered around proximity to those being healed.  We lack the mobility to be a constantly moving class unless you want to focus purely on LOTM which is a heal loss IMHO in a raid setting.  Our mastery increases our healing depending on how close we are 10 yards being the max benefit.  Add a healthy crit to that and your heals may come out a little slower but will inevitably heal far stronger.  Coupling Crit with mastery but favoring crit will allow you to stand relatively still and heal everyone with the right talents for massive numbers.  After extensive testing in Beta I can attest to the fact that Crit is going to likely be the best stat for us going into first legion raid, followed by mastery.

If you choose to favor haste that is a valid healing strategy as long as you are capable of managing your mana well.  Your HPS will be significantly higher but your overall healing will suffer.  Because the gear we will be raiding in has high haste on several key pieces (in legion) we will likely end up with similar cast times as we have now at the end of legion (minus the 4 set haste bonus).  With similar cast times crit/mastery may be slightly slower than all haste but overall healing will be better. It really depends on how you plan on playing and both can be arguably viable.  

The key I always stress when helping other pallies is make sure your play style (whatever you choose) has good synergy with the rest of your healers.  A solid heal team is always preferred to 1 healer pushing for their own numbers.  My realid (jebbo#1367) is open to all Hpally healers looking to discuss upcoming legion healing.  I enjoy helping healers in any way I can and welcome dissenting opinions as well.  Let's make the Hpally community a strong healing group this xpac.

-nic-

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I cant agree with the first talent choice... Crusader's Might is the best talent for the tier, it allows you to have a holy shock every other cast with a holy shock/crusader's Strike Rotation during Avenging Wrath, and makes it even better with Sanctified Wrath. A 5 Second heal is pretty craptastic if you think about the cd... yes it is an instant cast but for 6% of base mana with a 5 second delay... which will most likely not trigger when you want it. in a raid situation, the probability that it will not overheal 90% of it is very unlikely. im sorry but Bestow Faith is garbage.

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On 7/23/2016 at 7:33 PM, Enso said:

Only been a few days so far. But on a 691 Holydin, tank/melee healing, Light of the Martyr is my top heals and I am out healing what I used to do before the talent changes. About 45K (right up until I go OOM) when stacked within 10 yards. I spam LotM 8-10 times & then self-cast Holy Shock, with beacon on myself, it about balances with an occasional flash of light. Also hit LoD at 10.1 seconds and the same timing for Judgement (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Prism every 20 (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Then a cast heal for variety, and Light's hammer ever minute.

Top Heals :

1 Light of the martyr

2 Light of Dawn 

3. Judgement of Light 

4. Prism

Been very happy leading with LotM, except for the eventual OOM. But I don't think that is to blame - or at least not if I tweak it's use. It does need significant work, before progression raiding though, as it does obviously generate extra healing need. But as a makedo, to outheal the old spec inside a week of release is very pleasing.

 I would agree with you on live prepatch Light of the martyr is so op right now, i spam that shit like no tomorrow. I use my raid aoes on cd and hs on cooldown. Its so op. 

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So, I've been reading a lot and experimenting raiding mythics and here's what I've noticed.  

Light's Hammer is OP on fights that are stacked.  I've been using it on fights like Gorefiend during feasts, Manno (because I normally throw it on the imps to give extra damage in addition to my consecrate) and Xhul for the melee.  I think Hammer is totally being undervalued.  Bestow Faith to be honest seems like trash for the most part (like another person said) but that's probably because I have a warrior tank and a druid tank (who is beaconed).  I'm going to experiment with using it on myself and just spamming LoM since right now at level 100 it's OP.

Also, why is steed the choice?  To be perfectly honest, Rule of Law gives you so much more healing and there are only certain fights where you need the run speed.  Is it nice to have?  Of course, but it's not necessary if you're quick to move for mechanics.  The only fights I have seen steed useful for is Killrog and Zakuun (and to be perfectly honest, I probably won't take it for those two fights either...).

If you don't have a warrior tank or dk tank BoF actually isn't a bad talent selection. Dependant on the fight BoF would be better than Lightbringer (such as visions for Killrog).

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Imo I think that Beacon of faith is still good. According to the guide it's not worth taking. But I think that it is still really good. In my raids after the patch, I had problem with my healing, and that was before  I used beacon of faith, and I was below another paladin, 720 and I'm 730, that was using the same talents, as me, except he was using Beacon of faith. The tier bonus or set bonus depends on what you calling it. Is much eaiser keeping up with Beacon of faith and you have little more aoe healing for tanks.

I dont mean that it is still the best talent to take. I just mean that it should be an option to use it instead of denying it completely. It feels like the raid can still rely on me cause my healing is still really good. Im beating couple of classes. And Im not saying that they are the greatest healer of the worst. I really think that the talent should be a good option for lv 100 talents.

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On 7/26/2016 at 11:23 PM, Guest Secabea said:

 I would agree with you on live prepatch Light of the martyr is so op right now, i spam that shit like no tomorrow. I use my raid aoes on cd and hs on cooldown. Its so op. 

I'm going to try giving up my Light's Hammer and Prism though to try and improve mana conservation. Taking Bestow faith and Divine Purpose. They aren't the best for throughput. But the math says until I run with a disciplined raid group and/or improve my positioning (and use Aura Mastery on CD) I can do better sticking to single target, with less throughput. Do I miss reforging or what ! I only hope Legion gear helps with mana.

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There have been a sneak patch last night, Mostly changing Tier 2 talents.

Cavalier now gives an extra charge and the spell is given to all holy paladins

 

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Hey guys. Thank you for all the comments. They've been really helpful. I'm doing a pretty sizable update to the guide, and the newly added tier 2 talent should be added to the guide soon (the sneak patch caught both Damien and I away on short vacations, unfortunately).

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      On the ‘Panels’ tab, click on the ‘Text’ option on the right hand side. Tick ‘Class Col.’ on Bar Text so you will see player’s nickname in his class color. Hitpoints → Show → Percent. Show Text → Name & Flags (untick ‘class’ and ‘pet owner’ if it was ticked by default. You can play around with the rest of the options (text size, color, position) here.
      HOT ICONS
      On the ‘Panels’ tab, click on the ‘HoT Icons’ option on the right hand side. In the ‘Own HoTs’ section, choose one of 2 masters that shows where your HoTs will appear and use the buttons below to view your HoTs as ‘Icons’ and ‘Text.’ In the ‘HoT Order’ section, you can assign any of your or other players HoTs, Absorbs, Shields, Procs, personal and Raid CDs to any of the 6 spots shown in the ‘Own HoTs’ diagram. You should always leave Slot 7 (the middle slot) for the ‘AoE Advice’ icon. Or not...
      Another nice option here - to change the HoT icons size.
      Click on the button “More” from the right side of HoTs positioning masters and adjust.

       
      BOUQUETS
      You maybe noticed some options in the HoT Order section that are shown on my screenshot but couldn’t be find in your options. They are the Bouquets: custom groups of Buffs / Debuffs / HoTs / CDs that could be created by a player himself.
      Let’s create a custom bouquet for example for tracking of Tank personal CDs in your raid where the tanks are Warrior and Paladin.

      Go to General→ Bouquets. Type a name for a new Bouquet and press ‘New’ Press ‘Add’ button it the Bouquet Details part Type a spell name in the ‘...or enter Buff / Debuff / HoT name’ line In ‘Select default icon’ dropdown menu always chose ‘None / Default’, otherwise you wouldn't see the appropriate icon. Add all the spells you would like to track in your ‘My tanks’ bouquet. There will be situations when you’ll have multiple CDs or HoTs that were popped simultaneously to track. Because all the spell icons from one bouquet are shown in the same place, you should use the Priority Arrows to assign the importance of every one of them (e.g. the highest priority will be shown first).
      Another possibility to work with bouquets is just to edit the defaults.
      For example, we can chose a default ‘Raid Cooldowns’ bouquet and remove, add or change priority of CDs based on our raid composition.

      After creating or editing a bouquet you can use it in the HoT icons assignments.

       
      BUFFS
      As you've may have noticed, VuhDo has a separate Buff frame as part of the package. Personally, I don’t believe there is any need for VuhDo to show your buffs. I use WeakAuras to trace my mandatory buffs (on myself and others) and you should have something similar. So, I advise that you go to the ‘Buffs’ tab → General → Uncheck ‘Enable.’ If you want to play with it later - feel free to do so.
       
      DEBUFFS
      Extremely useful in raids. You can see most of the debuffs by default in your healing frames, but sometimes the addon is not updated yet for a new raid zone or the authors wouldn’t add some debuff that you want to trace. In this section you can add or remove any debuff / buff / proc that is applicable to a player.

      Go to Debuffs→ Custom Type buff / debuff  Spell ID in the line (you can find Spell ID on Wowhead in the address line. For example: “http://www.wowhead.com/spell=642/divine-shield”- Spell ID for the Divine Shield is 642). Now it will appear in the (de)Buff list. Tick the appropriate positions if you want to see stacks or timers for the debuff. Tick 'Bar Color' if you want to see a specific debuff in some different from the default color and pick the color from palette. Click ‘Save’ Do not click ‘Apply all’ or you’ll rewrite the defaults of all the debuffs.
      If you want to remove some buff / debuff / proc from the list, choose it from the dropdown menu and click ‘Delete’.
      There is an option for a complete reset of your custom debuff settings.  This can be done under 'VuhDo Options > Tools > Reset > Buffs/HoTs > Custom Debuffs' but beware you will loose all the debuff settings you customized.
       
      PROFILES
      If you ever wanted to save your VuhDo configuration for more than one toon / spec / raid size / encounter type or to share what you have with other VuhDo users, this is the place for you.
      Saving profiles for different specs / toons:
      Go to VuhDo Options->Tools Tab->Profiles.

      On the left side in 'Profiles' part you will see a line '...or enter profile name' with some name already typed in. Change it to a name that will make you remember what exactly you are saving here. I normally use a toon name with encounter type or a toon name with a group size, but if you are going to store profiles for different specs, it may be a good idea to mention a spec too.
      I stopped on profile naming in such a details because the default name is a bit weird - it's just made of a chain of nicknames for every toon you ever saved this profile for, so after having 2-4 toons in the chain it almost impossible to understand what exactly is stored there.
       
      Type a new name for your profile and press 'Save' Button. Do not confuse 'Save' with 'Apply' or you will cancel all the changes you made.
      After saving a profile, you can choose in the central part of the Tab the activation type: by group size and / or by spec. You will be able to choose it only after profile is saved, so don't be surprised if you are not able to check anything there.
      If you want to make this profile a default for all the new characters on the account, check 'Default Profile' button.
      Loading and deleting a profile:
      If you don't want VuhDo to activate profiles for you automatically or you want to load some specific profile for a new toon, go to the 'Select a profile' dropdown menu, choose whatever you need from there and hit 'Apply'.
      To delete a profile, choose it from the same dropdown menu and hit 'Delete'.
      Settings:
      Two useful buttons: 'Quiet mode' allows you to get rid of Confirmation Dialog spam, 'Lock' prevents an accidental overwriting of a profile.
      Key Layouts:
      An important note: Spell assignments are not saved in Profiles. To save, load or delete Spell and HoTs assignments you should go to Tools->Key Layouts:

      Export and share profiles:
      You can export selected features, share or receive profiles from other VuhDo users.
      To be able to receive a profile you have to go to 'Tools->Share->Receive Data' and tick 'Enable'.
      To share a profile you should click on a button 'Share' in the 'Send Profile' area. A new window will pop up: a dropdown menu with a line where you can type specific player's name and server. The dropdown menu will show your online guildies and people you are in group / raid with (disregarding of them having or not having VuhDo).

       
      Here's an example of my VuhDo profiles:
      I made a UI screenshot with opened talent tree and VuhDo HoT assignments.
      Key Layouts (how I assign spells to mouse): remember they are configured separately from the main setup and you have to import them separately too in Tools->Key Layouts->Import

      In 5-man HoT icons I track only my HoTs because obviously there are no other healers. Threat and personal CDs people may use are being tracked through Indicators (General->Advanced->Indicators). In this bouquet everyone should add his group specifics if you are aiming for Mythic+: I found a bit redundant to keep there damage mitigation abilities for all the classes.
      Regarding the Hot Keys you see on the screen - it may be a bit confusing because I don't really use all of them but:
      1,2,3 - dps abilities
      = - Tranq
      F1 - Barkskin
      F2 - Dash
      F4 - Inner
      F - Efflorescence
      G - shapeshift
      Q - Artifact spell
      D - Ironbark mouseover macro
      J - Cenarion Ward mouseover macro
      E,H - interrupts
      T - Flourish
       
      The raid setup:
      I'm raiding Mythic so my healing frames are tuned for 20-man.

      As you can see, HoT icon section changed - now I track what other healers are doing too so we wouldn't overlap with the healing and I'm be sure that assigned damage mitigation spells are used.
      The actual strings to import are in this separate thread because it's technically problematic to update them here in guide.
       
      I have to say that there are loads of options that I didn’t speak about here. But I tried to keep it short and basic.
      I always can answer any of your questions about VuhDo or you can continue to dig it by yourselves.