Damien

Holy Paladin 7.3

147 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Holy Paladin guide for Legion.

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I could not find any reference to Light of the Martyr in the section "Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities".

Is it an omission or is it recommended to avoid using it?

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1 hour ago, Guest Leo said:

I could not find any reference to Light of the Martyr in the section "Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities".

Is it an omission or is it recommended to avoid using it?

Hey. Thanks for the comment; not including the spell was obviously an oversight, although it is not actually used in the healing rotation due to it being pretty poor. I'll be updating the guide to mention it, though.

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" The best talent in this tier is Aura of Mercy IconAura of Mercy, and we recommend always choosing it. Aside from increasing the range of your heals, it also increases the radius in which your Mastery: Lightbringer IconMastery: Lightbringer has maximum potency. The other two talents are simply not worth considering. "

 

Aura of Mercy tooltip says nothing about increasing range of heals or radius of Lightbringer, that seems to be Rule of Law from the Tier 2 talents.

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53 minutes ago, Guest Sellys said:

" The best talent in this tier is Aura of Mercy IconAura of Mercy, and we recommend always choosing it. Aside from increasing the range of your heals, it also increases the radius in which your Mastery: Lightbringer IconMastery: Lightbringer has maximum potency. The other two talents are simply not worth considering. "

 

Aura of Mercy tooltip says nothing about increasing range of heals or radius of Lightbringer, that seems to be Rule of Law from the Tier 2 talents.

From what I've seen so far today, most paladins are taking devotion aura as the raid CD, and only using this as a padding talent ATM.

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was kinda hoping youd have a better holy paladin to look over the guide and approve it. Youve got a holy paladin that hasnt even finished mythic raid on that toon. not to mention its an alt of a priest, meaning all his efforts isnt put into looking into paladins (imo). any chance of getting any other high ranking holy paladins to look at it?

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Hi,

Aura of Mercy is as good as Druid tranquility if you're on a 20 raid or above. For 10 people, Aura of devotion will be better than Aura of Mercy if absorption of devotion aura is superior to the Aura of Mercy heal amount. I think talent are correct and should be chosen depending fight mechanics. But in the case of a dungeon, Aura of mercy won't heal enough 5 people.

My thought is based on talents tooltip, I may be wrong but if you calculate based on a fight like Gorefiend, you should see that Devotion aura comes first.

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5 hours ago, Guest Aryøn said:

 

Mercy is likely to be the most useful go to choice.  Devotion's dmg reduction is only useful for the non passive CD where it effects all raid members within 40 yards.  Mercy may be a small tick of a heal but as long as you are aware of where your standing it can always be effectively healing those needing it and every 1 second is a solid addition to AOE healing which we can agree is about NILL from us, as well as a Devo cd that is a small tranq.  Remember the devotion talent is a 20% dmg redux spread among all those in range.  

 

However, having said that, if you are healing with a competent resto druid who chose to take the 60 seconds off their tranq timer, you might be better served taking devotion aura.  Your healing may suffer but as a team you will supply a strong raid wide dmg redux.  

 

These are initial thoughts based on what I noticed healing tonight and in beta and may change with further testing.

Edited by nictitate

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Blessings no longer remove each other. I tested it today on live and my party member have all blessing in same time. 

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Thanks for these posts. I'm going to look into these issues today and address them. Will keep you posted.

 

UPDATE: We've made a few updates to the guide which should fix some of the issues that existed. We'll also be keep an eye out over the next couple of days and making any more changes that may be needed. Thank you for the feedback!

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I strongly disagree with the notion that Beacon of Faith should never be taken. CURRENTLY, with the HFC 4-piece bonus, if you were to take Faith, you would still be hitting BOTH beaconed targets for 45% via transferring. That is a HUGE amount for BOTH tanks. I think this will change in Legion for sure, however.

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3 hours ago, Guest Nephilite said:

I strongly disagree with the notion that Beacon of Faith should never be taken. CURRENTLY, with the HFC 4-piece bonus, if you were to take Faith, you would still be hitting BOTH beaconed targets for 45% via transferring. That is a HUGE amount for BOTH tanks. I think this will change in Legion for sure, however.

I think the benefit is lost when you consider beacon of light bringer allows the tank to effect your mastery hitting melee.  It helps you with the biggest weakness we have right now, which is mobility.  For archimonde atm beacon of faith can still be a solid choice since both tanks are actively taking dmg from the boss or adds.  Beacon of Lightbringer allows us to give a full mastery heal on melee without being in melee.

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Could you please explain a bit more as to why a holy pally would not want to use Judgement of Light if the tank is also using it? It just seems like a good source of small ongoing heals with little attention needed.  Thank you!

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Only been a few days so far. But on a 691 Holydin, tank/melee healing, Light of the Martyr is my top heals and I am out healing what I used to do before the talent changes. About 45K (right up until I go OOM) when stacked within 10 yards. I spam LotM 8-10 times & then self-cast Holy Shock, with beacon on myself, it about balances with an occasional flash of light. Also hit LoD at 10.1 seconds and the same timing for Judgement (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Prism every 20 (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Then a cast heal for variety, and Light's hammer ever minute.

Top Heals :

1 Light of the martyr

2 Light of Dawn 

3. Judgement of Light 

4. Prism

Been very happy leading with LotM, except for the eventual OOM. But I don't think that is to blame - or at least not if I tweak it's use. It does need significant work, before progression raiding though, as it does obviously generate extra healing need. But as a makedo, to outheal the old spec inside a week of release is very pleasing.

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Wow really bad guide. You don't seem to actually know what Haste does lol! 

You know it lowers the CD on Holy Shock AND Light of Dawn now, on top of the other things you have there. 

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3 hours ago, Guest metrolol said:

Wow really bad guide. You don't seem to actually know what Haste does lol! 

You know it lowers the CD on Holy Shock AND Light of Dawn now, on top of the other things you have there. 

Are you really calling the guide "really bad", just because of something so minor?

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Honestly I can't seem to find myself agreeing with this post. Haste seems to be an incredibly valuable stat currently. Like someone else mentioned, it lowers the cooldown on two quite valuable heals. When we receive our Artifact Weapons I think crit will become a little less important because of how much we can get out of talents. I think with the lack of mobility we have that our Holy Shock and and Light of Dawn need to be empowered by as much haste as we can get, without sacrificing too much from other stats. I will agree that crit may be the most valuable stat right now, but I think haste is a bit more valuable then what is said here and there is very little information here that describes haste in its current state with our spec. I have a few other complaints as well, but this is what stands out to me.

I looked over the person you got from Serenity to give you the okay with this guide and I can't seem to find a reason why he/she was chosen. I don't mean this as a person attack on this person because I have nothing against them, but I think finding someone else could have been a bit more beneficial. Overall I think this guide could be reviewed, but with the patch being new I understand it not being 100% on point because this patch is just an unfinished product of what we will be getting in a months time. Either way, I appreciate the time put in to write this to help others.

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For those arguing pro haste; haste is a valuable stat that if you take some time looking through the gear is going to end up giving us a significant boost to that stat without having to focus on it heavily.  I can understand and agree with the adage (faster casts=more heals out= better healing) but allow me to argue in a different manner.  We currently have a class that is centered around proximity to those being healed.  We lack the mobility to be a constantly moving class unless you want to focus purely on LOTM which is a heal loss IMHO in a raid setting.  Our mastery increases our healing depending on how close we are 10 yards being the max benefit.  Add a healthy crit to that and your heals may come out a little slower but will inevitably heal far stronger.  Coupling Crit with mastery but favoring crit will allow you to stand relatively still and heal everyone with the right talents for massive numbers.  After extensive testing in Beta I can attest to the fact that Crit is going to likely be the best stat for us going into first legion raid, followed by mastery.

If you choose to favor haste that is a valid healing strategy as long as you are capable of managing your mana well.  Your HPS will be significantly higher but your overall healing will suffer.  Because the gear we will be raiding in has high haste on several key pieces (in legion) we will likely end up with similar cast times as we have now at the end of legion (minus the 4 set haste bonus).  With similar cast times crit/mastery may be slightly slower than all haste but overall healing will be better. It really depends on how you plan on playing and both can be arguably viable.  

The key I always stress when helping other pallies is make sure your play style (whatever you choose) has good synergy with the rest of your healers.  A solid heal team is always preferred to 1 healer pushing for their own numbers.  My realid (jebbo#1367) is open to all Hpally healers looking to discuss upcoming legion healing.  I enjoy helping healers in any way I can and welcome dissenting opinions as well.  Let's make the Hpally community a strong healing group this xpac.

-nic-

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I cant agree with the first talent choice... Crusader's Might is the best talent for the tier, it allows you to have a holy shock every other cast with a holy shock/crusader's Strike Rotation during Avenging Wrath, and makes it even better with Sanctified Wrath. A 5 Second heal is pretty craptastic if you think about the cd... yes it is an instant cast but for 6% of base mana with a 5 second delay... which will most likely not trigger when you want it. in a raid situation, the probability that it will not overheal 90% of it is very unlikely. im sorry but Bestow Faith is garbage.

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On 7/23/2016 at 7:33 PM, Enso said:

Only been a few days so far. But on a 691 Holydin, tank/melee healing, Light of the Martyr is my top heals and I am out healing what I used to do before the talent changes. About 45K (right up until I go OOM) when stacked within 10 yards. I spam LotM 8-10 times & then self-cast Holy Shock, with beacon on myself, it about balances with an occasional flash of light. Also hit LoD at 10.1 seconds and the same timing for Judgement (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Prism every 20 (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Then a cast heal for variety, and Light's hammer ever minute.

Top Heals :

1 Light of the martyr

2 Light of Dawn 

3. Judgement of Light 

4. Prism

Been very happy leading with LotM, except for the eventual OOM. But I don't think that is to blame - or at least not if I tweak it's use. It does need significant work, before progression raiding though, as it does obviously generate extra healing need. But as a makedo, to outheal the old spec inside a week of release is very pleasing.

 I would agree with you on live prepatch Light of the martyr is so op right now, i spam that shit like no tomorrow. I use my raid aoes on cd and hs on cooldown. Its so op. 

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So, I've been reading a lot and experimenting raiding mythics and here's what I've noticed.  

Light's Hammer is OP on fights that are stacked.  I've been using it on fights like Gorefiend during feasts, Manno (because I normally throw it on the imps to give extra damage in addition to my consecrate) and Xhul for the melee.  I think Hammer is totally being undervalued.  Bestow Faith to be honest seems like trash for the most part (like another person said) but that's probably because I have a warrior tank and a druid tank (who is beaconed).  I'm going to experiment with using it on myself and just spamming LoM since right now at level 100 it's OP.

Also, why is steed the choice?  To be perfectly honest, Rule of Law gives you so much more healing and there are only certain fights where you need the run speed.  Is it nice to have?  Of course, but it's not necessary if you're quick to move for mechanics.  The only fights I have seen steed useful for is Killrog and Zakuun (and to be perfectly honest, I probably won't take it for those two fights either...).

If you don't have a warrior tank or dk tank BoF actually isn't a bad talent selection. Dependant on the fight BoF would be better than Lightbringer (such as visions for Killrog).

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Imo I think that Beacon of faith is still good. According to the guide it's not worth taking. But I think that it is still really good. In my raids after the patch, I had problem with my healing, and that was before  I used beacon of faith, and I was below another paladin, 720 and I'm 730, that was using the same talents, as me, except he was using Beacon of faith. The tier bonus or set bonus depends on what you calling it. Is much eaiser keeping up with Beacon of faith and you have little more aoe healing for tanks.

I dont mean that it is still the best talent to take. I just mean that it should be an option to use it instead of denying it completely. It feels like the raid can still rely on me cause my healing is still really good. Im beating couple of classes. And Im not saying that they are the greatest healer of the worst. I really think that the talent should be a good option for lv 100 talents.

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On 7/26/2016 at 11:23 PM, Guest Secabea said:

 I would agree with you on live prepatch Light of the martyr is so op right now, i spam that shit like no tomorrow. I use my raid aoes on cd and hs on cooldown. Its so op. 

I'm going to try giving up my Light's Hammer and Prism though to try and improve mana conservation. Taking Bestow faith and Divine Purpose. They aren't the best for throughput. But the math says until I run with a disciplined raid group and/or improve my positioning (and use Aura Mastery on CD) I can do better sticking to single target, with less throughput. Do I miss reforging or what ! I only hope Legion gear helps with mana.

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There have been a sneak patch last night, Mostly changing Tier 2 talents.

Cavalier now gives an extra charge and the spell is given to all holy paladins

 

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Hey guys. Thank you for all the comments. They've been really helpful. I'm doing a pretty sizable update to the guide, and the newly added tier 2 talent should be added to the guide soon (the sneak patch caught both Damien and I away on short vacations, unfortunately).

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