Damien

Holy Paladin 7.3

144 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Holy Paladin guide for Legion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could not find any reference to Light of the Martyr in the section "Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities".

Is it an omission or is it recommended to avoid using it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guest Leo said:

I could not find any reference to Light of the Martyr in the section "Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities".

Is it an omission or is it recommended to avoid using it?

Hey. Thanks for the comment; not including the spell was obviously an oversight, although it is not actually used in the healing rotation due to it being pretty poor. I'll be updating the guide to mention it, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" The best talent in this tier is Aura of Mercy IconAura of Mercy, and we recommend always choosing it. Aside from increasing the range of your heals, it also increases the radius in which your Mastery: Lightbringer IconMastery: Lightbringer has maximum potency. The other two talents are simply not worth considering. "

 

Aura of Mercy tooltip says nothing about increasing range of heals or radius of Lightbringer, that seems to be Rule of Law from the Tier 2 talents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Guest Sellys said:

" The best talent in this tier is Aura of Mercy IconAura of Mercy, and we recommend always choosing it. Aside from increasing the range of your heals, it also increases the radius in which your Mastery: Lightbringer IconMastery: Lightbringer has maximum potency. The other two talents are simply not worth considering. "

 

Aura of Mercy tooltip says nothing about increasing range of heals or radius of Lightbringer, that seems to be Rule of Law from the Tier 2 talents.

From what I've seen so far today, most paladins are taking devotion aura as the raid CD, and only using this as a padding talent ATM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

was kinda hoping youd have a better holy paladin to look over the guide and approve it. Youve got a holy paladin that hasnt even finished mythic raid on that toon. not to mention its an alt of a priest, meaning all his efforts isnt put into looking into paladins (imo). any chance of getting any other high ranking holy paladins to look at it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Aura of Mercy is as good as Druid tranquility if you're on a 20 raid or above. For 10 people, Aura of devotion will be better than Aura of Mercy if absorption of devotion aura is superior to the Aura of Mercy heal amount. I think talent are correct and should be chosen depending fight mechanics. But in the case of a dungeon, Aura of mercy won't heal enough 5 people.

My thought is based on talents tooltip, I may be wrong but if you calculate based on a fight like Gorefiend, you should see that Devotion aura comes first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Guest Aryøn said:

 

Mercy is likely to be the most useful go to choice.  Devotion's dmg reduction is only useful for the non passive CD where it effects all raid members within 40 yards.  Mercy may be a small tick of a heal but as long as you are aware of where your standing it can always be effectively healing those needing it and every 1 second is a solid addition to AOE healing which we can agree is about NILL from us, as well as a Devo cd that is a small tranq.  Remember the devotion talent is a 20% dmg redux spread among all those in range.  

 

However, having said that, if you are healing with a competent resto druid who chose to take the 60 seconds off their tranq timer, you might be better served taking devotion aura.  Your healing may suffer but as a team you will supply a strong raid wide dmg redux.  

 

These are initial thoughts based on what I noticed healing tonight and in beta and may change with further testing.

Edited by nictitate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blessings no longer remove each other. I tested it today on live and my party member have all blessing in same time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for these posts. I'm going to look into these issues today and address them. Will keep you posted.

 

UPDATE: We've made a few updates to the guide which should fix some of the issues that existed. We'll also be keep an eye out over the next couple of days and making any more changes that may be needed. Thank you for the feedback!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I strongly disagree with the notion that Beacon of Faith should never be taken. CURRENTLY, with the HFC 4-piece bonus, if you were to take Faith, you would still be hitting BOTH beaconed targets for 45% via transferring. That is a HUGE amount for BOTH tanks. I think this will change in Legion for sure, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Guest Nephilite said:

I strongly disagree with the notion that Beacon of Faith should never be taken. CURRENTLY, with the HFC 4-piece bonus, if you were to take Faith, you would still be hitting BOTH beaconed targets for 45% via transferring. That is a HUGE amount for BOTH tanks. I think this will change in Legion for sure, however.

I think the benefit is lost when you consider beacon of light bringer allows the tank to effect your mastery hitting melee.  It helps you with the biggest weakness we have right now, which is mobility.  For archimonde atm beacon of faith can still be a solid choice since both tanks are actively taking dmg from the boss or adds.  Beacon of Lightbringer allows us to give a full mastery heal on melee without being in melee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you please explain a bit more as to why a holy pally would not want to use Judgement of Light if the tank is also using it? It just seems like a good source of small ongoing heals with little attention needed.  Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only been a few days so far. But on a 691 Holydin, tank/melee healing, Light of the Martyr is my top heals and I am out healing what I used to do before the talent changes. About 45K (right up until I go OOM) when stacked within 10 yards. I spam LotM 8-10 times & then self-cast Holy Shock, with beacon on myself, it about balances with an occasional flash of light. Also hit LoD at 10.1 seconds and the same timing for Judgement (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Prism every 20 (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Then a cast heal for variety, and Light's hammer ever minute.

Top Heals :

1 Light of the martyr

2 Light of Dawn 

3. Judgement of Light 

4. Prism

Been very happy leading with LotM, except for the eventual OOM. But I don't think that is to blame - or at least not if I tweak it's use. It does need significant work, before progression raiding though, as it does obviously generate extra healing need. But as a makedo, to outheal the old spec inside a week of release is very pleasing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow really bad guide. You don't seem to actually know what Haste does lol! 

You know it lowers the CD on Holy Shock AND Light of Dawn now, on top of the other things you have there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Guest metrolol said:

Wow really bad guide. You don't seem to actually know what Haste does lol! 

You know it lowers the CD on Holy Shock AND Light of Dawn now, on top of the other things you have there. 

Are you really calling the guide "really bad", just because of something so minor?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I can't seem to find myself agreeing with this post. Haste seems to be an incredibly valuable stat currently. Like someone else mentioned, it lowers the cooldown on two quite valuable heals. When we receive our Artifact Weapons I think crit will become a little less important because of how much we can get out of talents. I think with the lack of mobility we have that our Holy Shock and and Light of Dawn need to be empowered by as much haste as we can get, without sacrificing too much from other stats. I will agree that crit may be the most valuable stat right now, but I think haste is a bit more valuable then what is said here and there is very little information here that describes haste in its current state with our spec. I have a few other complaints as well, but this is what stands out to me.

I looked over the person you got from Serenity to give you the okay with this guide and I can't seem to find a reason why he/she was chosen. I don't mean this as a person attack on this person because I have nothing against them, but I think finding someone else could have been a bit more beneficial. Overall I think this guide could be reviewed, but with the patch being new I understand it not being 100% on point because this patch is just an unfinished product of what we will be getting in a months time. Either way, I appreciate the time put in to write this to help others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those arguing pro haste; haste is a valuable stat that if you take some time looking through the gear is going to end up giving us a significant boost to that stat without having to focus on it heavily.  I can understand and agree with the adage (faster casts=more heals out= better healing) but allow me to argue in a different manner.  We currently have a class that is centered around proximity to those being healed.  We lack the mobility to be a constantly moving class unless you want to focus purely on LOTM which is a heal loss IMHO in a raid setting.  Our mastery increases our healing depending on how close we are 10 yards being the max benefit.  Add a healthy crit to that and your heals may come out a little slower but will inevitably heal far stronger.  Coupling Crit with mastery but favoring crit will allow you to stand relatively still and heal everyone with the right talents for massive numbers.  After extensive testing in Beta I can attest to the fact that Crit is going to likely be the best stat for us going into first legion raid, followed by mastery.

If you choose to favor haste that is a valid healing strategy as long as you are capable of managing your mana well.  Your HPS will be significantly higher but your overall healing will suffer.  Because the gear we will be raiding in has high haste on several key pieces (in legion) we will likely end up with similar cast times as we have now at the end of legion (minus the 4 set haste bonus).  With similar cast times crit/mastery may be slightly slower than all haste but overall healing will be better. It really depends on how you plan on playing and both can be arguably viable.  

The key I always stress when helping other pallies is make sure your play style (whatever you choose) has good synergy with the rest of your healers.  A solid heal team is always preferred to 1 healer pushing for their own numbers.  My realid (jebbo#1367) is open to all Hpally healers looking to discuss upcoming legion healing.  I enjoy helping healers in any way I can and welcome dissenting opinions as well.  Let's make the Hpally community a strong healing group this xpac.

-nic-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant agree with the first talent choice... Crusader's Might is the best talent for the tier, it allows you to have a holy shock every other cast with a holy shock/crusader's Strike Rotation during Avenging Wrath, and makes it even better with Sanctified Wrath. A 5 Second heal is pretty craptastic if you think about the cd... yes it is an instant cast but for 6% of base mana with a 5 second delay... which will most likely not trigger when you want it. in a raid situation, the probability that it will not overheal 90% of it is very unlikely. im sorry but Bestow Faith is garbage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2016 at 7:33 PM, Enso said:

Only been a few days so far. But on a 691 Holydin, tank/melee healing, Light of the Martyr is my top heals and I am out healing what I used to do before the talent changes. About 45K (right up until I go OOM) when stacked within 10 yards. I spam LotM 8-10 times & then self-cast Holy Shock, with beacon on myself, it about balances with an occasional flash of light. Also hit LoD at 10.1 seconds and the same timing for Judgement (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Prism every 20 (macro'd to cast on targetstarget) . Then a cast heal for variety, and Light's hammer ever minute.

Top Heals :

1 Light of the martyr

2 Light of Dawn 

3. Judgement of Light 

4. Prism

Been very happy leading with LotM, except for the eventual OOM. But I don't think that is to blame - or at least not if I tweak it's use. It does need significant work, before progression raiding though, as it does obviously generate extra healing need. But as a makedo, to outheal the old spec inside a week of release is very pleasing.

 I would agree with you on live prepatch Light of the martyr is so op right now, i spam that shit like no tomorrow. I use my raid aoes on cd and hs on cooldown. Its so op. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I've been reading a lot and experimenting raiding mythics and here's what I've noticed.  

Light's Hammer is OP on fights that are stacked.  I've been using it on fights like Gorefiend during feasts, Manno (because I normally throw it on the imps to give extra damage in addition to my consecrate) and Xhul for the melee.  I think Hammer is totally being undervalued.  Bestow Faith to be honest seems like trash for the most part (like another person said) but that's probably because I have a warrior tank and a druid tank (who is beaconed).  I'm going to experiment with using it on myself and just spamming LoM since right now at level 100 it's OP.

Also, why is steed the choice?  To be perfectly honest, Rule of Law gives you so much more healing and there are only certain fights where you need the run speed.  Is it nice to have?  Of course, but it's not necessary if you're quick to move for mechanics.  The only fights I have seen steed useful for is Killrog and Zakuun (and to be perfectly honest, I probably won't take it for those two fights either...).

If you don't have a warrior tank or dk tank BoF actually isn't a bad talent selection. Dependant on the fight BoF would be better than Lightbringer (such as visions for Killrog).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo I think that Beacon of faith is still good. According to the guide it's not worth taking. But I think that it is still really good. In my raids after the patch, I had problem with my healing, and that was before  I used beacon of faith, and I was below another paladin, 720 and I'm 730, that was using the same talents, as me, except he was using Beacon of faith. The tier bonus or set bonus depends on what you calling it. Is much eaiser keeping up with Beacon of faith and you have little more aoe healing for tanks.

I dont mean that it is still the best talent to take. I just mean that it should be an option to use it instead of denying it completely. It feels like the raid can still rely on me cause my healing is still really good. Im beating couple of classes. And Im not saying that they are the greatest healer of the worst. I really think that the talent should be a good option for lv 100 talents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2016 at 11:23 PM, Guest Secabea said:

 I would agree with you on live prepatch Light of the martyr is so op right now, i spam that shit like no tomorrow. I use my raid aoes on cd and hs on cooldown. Its so op. 

I'm going to try giving up my Light's Hammer and Prism though to try and improve mana conservation. Taking Bestow faith and Divine Purpose. They aren't the best for throughput. But the math says until I run with a disciplined raid group and/or improve my positioning (and use Aura Mastery on CD) I can do better sticking to single target, with less throughput. Do I miss reforging or what ! I only hope Legion gear helps with mana.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There have been a sneak patch last night, Mostly changing Tier 2 talents.

Cavalier now gives an extra charge and the spell is given to all holy paladins

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys. Thank you for all the comments. They've been really helpful. I'm doing a pretty sizable update to the guide, and the newly added tier 2 talent should be added to the guide soon (the sneak patch caught both Damien and I away on short vacations, unfortunately).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Stan

      The Mythic Dungeon Invitational continues with weekend 2 and it's time for European and American teams to take their shot.
      It all started last week with APAC & China. Two teams per region are advancing to the next stage of the competition. Blizzard is putting the following affixes into play during the competition:
      Affix 1
      Affix 2
      Affix 3
      Sanguine
      Quaking
      Tyrannical
      Teeming
      Volcanic
      Tyrannical
      Bolstering
      Explosive
      Fortified
      Raging
      Grievous
      Fortified
      Explosive
      Volcanic
      Teeming
      Weekend 2: Europe and the Americas
      Europe: Saturday, September 23 at 5:00 a.m. PDT The Americas: Sunday, September 24 at 9:00 a.m PDT Watch Live

      Stay tuned for more coverage.
    • By Stan

      A source of the latest information related to Patch 7.3 and beyond!
      Our Patch 7.3 hub organizes all 7.3 data and latest news coverage in a single place.
      Welcome to our centralized hub dedicated to the biggest patch ever introduced to World of Warcraft. For easier navigation, we'll keep it updated throughout testing by adding links to our latest coverage, so that you won't miss out on any important information.
      Patch 7.3
      Patch 7.3 titled "Shadows of Argus" is now live. For more information we suggest reading our Shadows of Argus Survival Guide. All our class guides have been updated with Netherlight Crucible trait recommendations.
      Official Patch Notes Invasion Points Guide // Greater Invasion Points Guide Undocumented Changes in Patch 7.3 List of Known Issues Mythic Keystone Runs & Difficulty Changes Returning Player Guide Reputation Guides (Argussian Reach & Army of the Light) Relinquished & Unsullied Token Clarifications Blizzplanet's Gamescom Interview with Ion Hazzikostas Ion Hazzikostas Patch 7.3 Interview  Content Rollout Schedule Dungeons (M+) Changes Patch 7.3 Hotfixes
      The following hotfixes have been applied to live servers so far:
      Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 22 *new* Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 19 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 16 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 13 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 12 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 8 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 6 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 5 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - September 1 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - August 30 Patch 7.3 Hotfixes - August 29 Build Highlights // Class Changes
      In this section, you will find the most recent changes sorted by build.
      Patch 7.3 Build 24853 Patch 7.3 Build 24727  Patch 7.3 Build 24651 Patch 7.3 Build 24608 // Feral Druid // Frost DK & Mage Changes Patch 7.3: Upcoming Frost Death Knight Changes Patch 7.3 Build 24539 // Patch 7.3 Feral Druid Changes Patch 7.3.0 Build 24500 Patch 7.3.0 Build 24473 Dev Notes
      Blizzard usually posts on the official forums once a new PTR build is deployed to test realms, giving an overview of new features that become available for testing.
      Build 24829 Build 24608 Build 24539 Build 24500 Build 24473 Artifact Power & Advancement
      In Patch 7.3, you will be able to unlock the Netherlight Crucible, a new way of Artifact customization via relics.
      Artifact Knowledge Changes The Netherlight Crucible Guide Antorus the Burning Throne
      The new raid is currently tested on PTR and will be available in Patch 7.3.5.
      Antorus, the Burning Throne Raid Preview (Build 24473) Antorus Raid Rewards Antorus Raid Zone Preview Part 1 Antorus Raid Zone Preview Part 2 Antorus Raid Zone Preview Part 3 Antorus & The Pantheon Legion Ending & Next Expansion Leaks New Creature Models (Antorus Bosses, Titans, Lore Characters) (Build 24473) Tier 21 Sets
      In Antorus, you will find Tier 21 Sets dropping from the bosses.
      Tier 21 Sets Preview (Normal Tints) // Mythic Tints Tier 21 Death Knight (Build 24608) Tier 21 Demon Hunter (Build 25021) *new* Tier 21 Druid (Build 24500) Tier 21 Mage (Build 24651) Tier 21 Monk (Build 24539) Tier 21 Paladin (Build 24539) Tier 21 Priest (Build 24500) Tier 21 Rogue (Build 24539) Tier 21 Warlock (24651) Argus & Gameplay Videos
      Argus is a new planet that has three zones. Krokuun, Mac'Aree and Antoran Wastes. In the following articles, you will find detailed information about all the different zones.
      How to Get to Argus (Intro) Vindicaar Matrix Core Powers & Assessment Argus Gameplay Part 1 (up to Krokuun) (Build 24473) Argus Gameplay Part 2 (End of Chapter 1) (Build 24500) Argus Gameplay Part 3 (Mac'Aree) (Build 24539) New Factions
      Two new factions have been added to the game in Patch 7.3.
      Argussian Reach (Faction) Preview Army of Light Faction Preview Weapons of the Lightforged (Build 24473) Gearing & Alts
      All useful information in terms of gearing and alts.
      Reputation Catch-up & New Heirloom Amulet Unsullied & Confiscated Gear Veiled Argunite & New Gear Tokens Invasion Points
      A new type of repeatable content, aka scenarios with different stages with the goal to defeat a boss at the end.
      Invasion Points // "Lesser & Greater Rifts" Coming to WoW Invasion Point: Blood (Build 24539) Invasion Point: Ice (Build 24539) Seat of the Triumvirate
      A new five-player dungeon located in Mac'Aree (Argus)
      Seat of the Triumvirate (Dungeon) (Build 24608) New Transmog Items (Build 24500) Missions
      New Champion Equipment & Missions Mounts
      New Mounts (Build 24473) Lightforged Golem Mount Shackled Ur'zul (Mythic Argus Mount) Pets
      How to Tame Panthara Pets *new* New Tameable Hunter Pets (Build 24781) New Pets (Build 24473) New Pets (Build 24853) Professions
      New Profession Updates (Build 24473) // The Future of Obliterum World Bosses
      New World Bosses (Build 24473) New Caster Animations
      In Patch 7.3, several caster Classes received updates to their animations.
      Official Preview Druid, Mage, Shaman Animations (Build 24473) Priest Animations (Build 24473) Restoration Shaman Animations (Build 24500)
    • By Starym

       
      A small batch today as we get a Brewfest healing issue fixed, Argus invasion points get a mob nerf and Warlock mounts are flashy once again!
      September 22 (source)
      Achievements
      Fixed a bug that excluded certain repeatable Highmountain Clan chests from counting toward the Treasures of Highmountain Achievement. Argus
      Invasion Points Crazed Corruptors’ Shadow Bolt spell now deals significantly less damage. Classes
      Warlock Wrathsteeds will once again leave glowing hoofprints while flying. Event
      Corin Direbrew Healing should now scale properly with player level. Previous Patch 7.3 Hotfixes
      September 19 September 16 September 13 September 12 September 8
    • By Chumani
      Aka'magosh my raider friends! Chumani here from Corrupted Destiny guild (Horde) on Skywall/Drak'thul realms. We are currently recruiting for our core team for mythic raiding. We are 8/9 H ToS....  Consistant and Dependable members! (Who can handle cutting up and getting yelled at.... by a certain mage in our guild.... who cuts up too.... and won't admit it..... and puts down fake portals.... every week..... and people still take them.... to their death..... really......week..... after week.... to their death...... seriously)
      As always we are recruiting raiders and non raiders.
      *****GIRLS***** We have a large number of female gamers who do not have to worry about harrasment of any kind...we just will not tolerate this... and our group is like family. Come see for yourself!
      Tired of the ridiculous harassment from the opposite sex? You will be safe with us! Mature gamers who do not condone this behaviour!
      Our raid schedule is Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday 6:30pm to 9:00pm server time(pst)
      We use MUMBLE voice server, it is required and no exceptions!
      We currently have an "Alt" raid for alts and non-progression raiders on Mondays at the same time! MEGA amounts of fun there, alot of us use our mains to carry this raid and help gear these raiders up!
      Other guild events include: Herb Drives, Fishing Expo, Mog off! (Best transmog wins), Old Raids for Transmog gear & Mythic Plus runs. We do random guild events with prizes up to and including a FREE MONTH OF WOW! (Mog-Off is going on NOW!!)
      We have quite a bit of fun when we get together, as we always have over the years! Come join us and get corrupted (Disclaimer: Infections have been found to be the leading cause of corruption in many raiders) We've always been here and will continue to be here! Of course you will be required to sacrifice a goat or an alliance player once a week to the Horde gods..... You will also be required to laugh and have fun as well! We do have fun!
      So.......COME.......GET.......CORRUPTED!
      Chu@12466 - Deni#1743 - Cykopathyk#1366
      ***Newest video highlighting some of our girls!****
      (We are just huge nerds who see ourselves as badass warriors!... ok!)
      ******We also have one of our members who has published some 'how to' videos for certain in game mounts!!*** Keep eye out for Barcat, one of our casual members and professional mount hoarder and his youtube channel for these vids! Will post one in comment below*******
      http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=247413
    • By Stan

      Players have been comparing the Netherlight Crucible to Reforging and Ornyx sat down with the development team to answer some of the concerns.
      TL;DR
      Reforging was a simple and mechanical choice of replacing worst stats with best stats on every item. The Crucible is only affecting a small subset of items offering more varied situations than reforging 30 Hit into Haste. Respeccing Crucible traits is generally a bad idea, because players would be able to pick traits based on perfect optimization for any given situation during raid progression. Relics become Soulbound on inspection to avoid everyone porting in and out of raid to pass the relic around to see who it's best for. You can learn more about the Netherlight Crucible in our guide.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Hey guys!

      We’ve been seeing a lot of discussion going back and forth on the Crucible lately, so we’ve had some conversations with the development team and I wanted to pop in and share a few points that came out of it.

      Regarding comparisons to Reforging – Reforging was always a simple, mechanical choice. Players were, at the end of the day, simply replacing their worst stats with best stats on every item that didn’t already have your best stats up to a mechanical limit. The Crucible, by comparison, is only affecting a small subset of items and presents much more varied situations than say “change 30 Hit Chance into Haste”.

      We’ve also seen a bit of discussion around players desiring the ability to respec the Traits that are locked on the second and third tiers of relics. We feel that the ability to respect Traits would lead to players picking traits based on perfect optimization for any given situation, which could lead to players leaving a raid to change to AoE-centric traits for the next fight during raid progression. While we feel that’s a nuisance in itself, this would also make the system feel like a watered-down version of talent rows, and would undermine the choice that is made when selecting your Relic Traits.

      That being said, Relics are items and will be replaced; we do expect players to make choices and experiment with this system. Since there is still new content ahead of us in Antorus, better Relics will be available and players who make choices they may not like now will have the opportunity to get new Relics before long with a potentially new set of Trait choices.

      As a note, we are also fine with the current state that Relics Soulbind on inspection in the Crucible. We believe the alternative of everyone porting in and out of the raid to pass the relic around and see who it’s best for is far, far worse. Players are smart and will be able to make educated decisions based on the information that’s available to them. As I said, we do expect experimentation however.

      A final note: I saw the post on Reddit laying out three choices for Relics, asking players which one they would pick -
      Relic A : 930 Ilvl BiS main trait, 3rd BiS bonus trait, but forces worst tier 2 crucible trait Relic B : 915 ilvl BiS main and bonus trait and 2nd BiS crucible tier 2 trait Relic C : 940 ilvl 2nd and 4th BiS traits and BiS crucible tier 2 trait. The poster responded by saying the only way to know is to sim it. If you’re generally a player who simulates gear upgrades to make decisions, you’re probably going to do that anyway, and that’s fine. If you’re a player going off basic guidelines such as “I play a fire mage so I want Critical Strike” you will get by as you always do in this situation and pick what you think is best for your particular class or spec. 

      Thanks for all the feedback on the topic so far, I’ll be on the lookout for future discussions, as always.