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Nieria

Regarding Outlaw rogue stat priority and rotation PvE

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Hi! So upon viewing the Outlaw rogue stat priority, I'm a bit confused as to why Haste is the lowest stat for us. With Outlaw's heavy influence of RNG, there are times where saber slash won't proc a Pistol Shot, causing my dps to drop tremendously. With more haste to generate energy with for more saber slashes, resulting more Run Throughs. I feel this would benefit more for constant dps rather than stacking crit just because the crit isn't going to benefit me that much if I'm taking my sweet time building up combo points for a single Run Through. I think a stat priority of Vers>Haste>Crit>Mastery might be better, however I do not have the gear to test this out yet. 

Finally, I have both Quick Draw and Deeper Stratagem talented, and a problem I've ran into is having five combo points with a Pistol Shot proc, but not knowing if I should hold the proc and spend my current points, or use the proc while wasting that one extra combo point. The guide mentions that there isn't a big difference in dps regarding this, but I feel it can at least matter when in cleave/big aoe pulls since a six point Run Through does more than a five point in big pulls.

Any insight will be appreciated. Thanks!

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For your point about Stat Priority, I'd direct you to Carrn's post on the Outlaw guide (it's at the bottom of the page).#

For the second point, I'm not sure enough to give a reply. I'm sure someone else can pick that part up and help!

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On the second point, I would use the 5 CP Run Through then Pistol Shot. Reasoning being mostly that energy generation is relatively low for the time being, and it will be easier to not lose points than to generate more.

As you said though, your overall damage done won't change 

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And as expected, Carrn came to my rescue with more information than I could hope to have on Rogues!

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Haha both of your comments helped me out a lot! 

I've encountered a few other problems. First one being when bursting and there is an overabundance of energy, would it just be better to spam Saber Slash, Run Through, repeat while ignoring Pistol Shot procs with Quick Draw talented? Because of the Dreadblade ability, that extra combo points doesn't mean anything. I'm also curious how Blunderbuss would make it worth using Pistol Shot during this burst sequence, I don't have it yet to test it out.

Last question! Quick Draw or Ghostly Strike for Mythic dungeons? 

Again, thank you guys for the help! :)

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35 minutes ago, Nieria said:

Haha both of your comments helped me out a lot! 

I've encountered a few other problems. First one being when bursting and there is an overabundance of energy, would it just be better to spam Saber Slash, Run Through, repeat while ignoring Pistol Shot procs with Quick Draw talented? Because of the Dreadblade ability, that extra combo points doesn't mean anything. I'm also curious how Blunderbuss would make it worth using Pistol Shot during this burst sequence, I don't have it yet to test it out.

Last question! Quick Draw or Ghostly Strike for Mythic dungeons? 

Again, thank you guys for the help! :)

Use the PS proc if you have 4CP or less, and use RT once you hit 5-6 like normal. Capping on energy at this point is pretty much expected, and isn't really a big deal. Just spam your buttons faster :P

For Mythics I would lean towards Quick Draw; the majority of the pulls in a dungeon are multiple mobs, and not having to use GS every single time you change targets will be a little more fun.

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On 9/13/2016 at 0:08 PM, Nieria said:

When bursting there is an overabundance of energy, would it just be better to spam Sabre Slash, Run Through, repeat while ignoring Pistol Shot procs?

 

On 9/13/2016 at 0:55 PM, Carrn said:

Use the PS proc if you have 4CP or less, and use RT once you hit 5-6 like normal. Capping on energy at this point is pretty much expected, and isn't really a big deal.

Its pretty valid to use Sabre Slash over PS even when in procs in two situations since it does much less damage.

I am of the opinion that  During CoTDB + AR portion of bursting despite buffs that its not worth casting Pistol Shot since it does significantly less damage than Sabre Slash especially when you SS proc. My only doubt about thsi is that Pistol Shot has a very short animation relative to Sabre Slash so perhaps you get less Run Throughs out.

The second situation is when you have the Broadsides, one combo point from Ruthlessness and a Pistol Shot proc  I think that it could be a loss to cast the Pistol Shot into Sabre Slash and is better to cast Sabre Slash again and if you don't proc then use the Pistol Shot or to save it for when you refresh your Ghostly Strike if you keep getting procs.

This is of course until you unlock the Dreadblades talent Blunderbuss in which case it is certainly better to use that.

I'm interested in hearing other people opinions on this.

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2 hours ago, Xenon said:

 

Its pretty valid to use Sabre Slash over PS even when in procs in two situations since it does much less damage.

I am of the opinion that  During CoTDB + AR portion of bursting despite buffs that its not worth casting Pistol Shot since it does significantly less damage than Sabre Slash especially when you SS proc. My only doubt about thsi is that Pistol Shot has a very short animation relative to Sabre Slash so perhaps you get less Run Throughs out.

The second situation is when you have the Broadsides, one combo point from Ruthlessness and a Pistol Shot proc  I think that it could be a loss to cast the Pistol Shot into Sabre Slash and is better to cast Sabre Slash again and if you don't proc then use the Pistol Shot or to save it for when you refresh your Ghostly Strike if you keep getting procs.

This is of course until you unlock the Dreadblades talent Blunderbuss in which case it is certainly better to use that.

I'm interested in hearing other people opinions on this.

Not really sure that I understand what you're trying to say, but the idea is that you use PS when it won't cause you to overflow on CPs and you have a proc. If either one of those things is the case, you shouldn't be using PS - if it will cap you (ie: if you have 5 or 6 cp) you should use RT, and if you don't have a proc don't use PS

Even with AR up, energy isn't infinite, although it's ok to ignore the proc if you're already sitting on 90% for example

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On 9/17/2016 at 7:01 PM, Carrn said:

Not really sure that I understand what you're trying to say, but the idea is that you use PS when it won't cause you to overflow on CPs and you have a proc. If either one of those things is the case, you shouldn't be using PS - if it will cap you (ie: if you have 5 or 6 cp) you should use RT, and if you don't have a proc don't use PS

Even with AR up, energy isn't infinite, although it's ok to ignore the proc if you're already sitting on 90% for example

Okay I think you actually summarised what I was trying to say much better with the last line there, sorry for taking so long to reply I wasn't sure what to write.

However I have a new question about stat priority.
Using these stat weights for the current iLvL

  • Agi: 1
  • Vers: 0.61
  • Haste: 0.56
  • Crit: 0.55
  • Mastery: 0.49

is it better to use an item that has a higher value with worse stats?
In my case I'm not sure whether to pick between a ring with iLvL 850 with 786 crit & 1049 haste +a socket and an enchant for 300 vers or to use the other that has iLvL840 707 crit & 1061 + 150 vers with enchant.

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1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Okay I think you actually summarised what I was trying to say much better with the last line there, sorry for taking so long to reply I wasn't sure what to write.

However I have a new question about stat priority.
Using these stat weights for the current iLvL

  • Agi: 1
  • Vers: 0.61
  • Haste: 0.56
  • Crit: 0.55
  • Mastery: 0.49

is it better to use an item that has a higher value with worse stats?
In my case I'm not sure whether to pick between a ring with iLvL 850 with 786 crit & 1049 haste +a socket and an enchant for 300 vers or to use the other that has iLvL840 707 crit & 1061 + 150 vers with enchant.

The general rule is that item level is always better, but lets look at how stat weights work.

Let's use 2 examples from Wowhead as examples:

Wristwraps of Broken TrustWristwraps of Broken Trust (I'll write WBT) andDragonspur WristguardsDragonspur Wristguards (I'll write DW)

WBT has 729 Agi, 288 Crit, and 445 Mastery. To find the value of this item, we first must find the value of those different stats, then add the values of each stat together.

  • 729 x 1 = 729
  • 288 x 0.55 = 158.4
  • 445 x 0.49 = 218.05
  • 729 + 158.4 + 218.05 = 1105.45

DW has 729 Agi, 509 Crit, and 225 Haste

  • 729 x 1 = 729
  • 509 x 0.55 = 279.95
  • 225 x 0.56 = 126
  • 729 + 279.95 + 126 = 1134.95

Using this method, we can see that DW is a better bracer than WBT. 

The same thing goes for items of different levels, although hopefully you can see that the value of Agility is significantly higher than the value of any other stat

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15 minutes ago, Carrn said:

The general rule is that item level is always better, but lets look at how stat weights work.

Let's use 2 examples from Wowhead as examples:

Wristwraps of Broken TrustWristwraps of Broken Trust (I'll write WBT) andDragonspur WristguardsDragonspur Wristguards (I'll write DW)

WBT has 729 Agi, 288 Crit, and 445 Mastery. To find the value of this item, we first must find the value of those different stats, then add the values of each stat together.

  • 729 x 1 = 729
  • 288 x 0.55 = 158.4
  • 445 x 0.49 = 218.05
  • 729 + 158.4 + 218.05 = 1105.45

DW has 729 Agi, 509 Crit, and 225 Haste

  • 729 x 1 = 729
  • 509 x 0.55 = 279.95
  • 225 x 0.56 = 126
  • 729 + 279.95 + 126 = 1134.95

Using this method, we can see that DW is a better bracer than WBT. 

The same thing goes for items of different levels, although hopefully you can see that the value of Agility is significantly higher than the value of any other stat

This clarifies pretty much what I thought but was unsure of because with stats like Mastery and Crit stacking them makes their effects more apparent because of the proc chance associated with them. Going purely off stat weights it should be easy to pick determine the more effective piece of gear, thanks again.

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7 minutes ago, Xenon said:

This clarifies pretty much what I thought but was unsure of because with stats like Mastery and Crit stacking them makes their effects more apparent because of the proc chance associated with them. Going purely off stat weights it should be easy to pick determine the more effective piece of gear, thanks again.

Yeah that sort of thing is already factored in when looking at stat weights.

It's a pretty complicated bit of math, but what basically happens is Simulations are run that checks the damage increase of one stat over another. If you're interested in the Math behind it, you should head over to Ravenholdt and check out Fierydemise's work. He and a number of other people on there do all kinds of math for Rogues of every spec, and it gets pretty interesting

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