Nieria

Regarding Outlaw rogue stat priority and rotation PvE

Sign in to follow this  

12 posts in this topic

Hi! So upon viewing the Outlaw rogue stat priority, I'm a bit confused as to why Haste is the lowest stat for us. With Outlaw's heavy influence of RNG, there are times where saber slash won't proc a Pistol Shot, causing my dps to drop tremendously. With more haste to generate energy with for more saber slashes, resulting more Run Throughs. I feel this would benefit more for constant dps rather than stacking crit just because the crit isn't going to benefit me that much if I'm taking my sweet time building up combo points for a single Run Through. I think a stat priority of Vers>Haste>Crit>Mastery might be better, however I do not have the gear to test this out yet. 

Finally, I have both Quick Draw and Deeper Stratagem talented, and a problem I've ran into is having five combo points with a Pistol Shot proc, but not knowing if I should hold the proc and spend my current points, or use the proc while wasting that one extra combo point. The guide mentions that there isn't a big difference in dps regarding this, but I feel it can at least matter when in cleave/big aoe pulls since a six point Run Through does more than a five point in big pulls.

Any insight will be appreciated. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the second point, I would use the 5 CP Run Through then Pistol Shot. Reasoning being mostly that energy generation is relatively low for the time being, and it will be easier to not lose points than to generate more.

As you said though, your overall damage done won't change 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And as expected, Carrn came to my rescue with more information than I could hope to have on Rogues!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha both of your comments helped me out a lot! 

I've encountered a few other problems. First one being when bursting and there is an overabundance of energy, would it just be better to spam Saber Slash, Run Through, repeat while ignoring Pistol Shot procs with Quick Draw talented? Because of the Dreadblade ability, that extra combo points doesn't mean anything. I'm also curious how Blunderbuss would make it worth using Pistol Shot during this burst sequence, I don't have it yet to test it out.

Last question! Quick Draw or Ghostly Strike for Mythic dungeons? 

Again, thank you guys for the help! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Nieria said:

Haha both of your comments helped me out a lot! 

I've encountered a few other problems. First one being when bursting and there is an overabundance of energy, would it just be better to spam Saber Slash, Run Through, repeat while ignoring Pistol Shot procs with Quick Draw talented? Because of the Dreadblade ability, that extra combo points doesn't mean anything. I'm also curious how Blunderbuss would make it worth using Pistol Shot during this burst sequence, I don't have it yet to test it out.

Last question! Quick Draw or Ghostly Strike for Mythic dungeons? 

Again, thank you guys for the help! :)

Use the PS proc if you have 4CP or less, and use RT once you hit 5-6 like normal. Capping on energy at this point is pretty much expected, and isn't really a big deal. Just spam your buttons faster :P

For Mythics I would lean towards Quick Draw; the majority of the pulls in a dungeon are multiple mobs, and not having to use GS every single time you change targets will be a little more fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2016 at 0:08 PM, Nieria said:

When bursting there is an overabundance of energy, would it just be better to spam Sabre Slash, Run Through, repeat while ignoring Pistol Shot procs?

 

On 9/13/2016 at 0:55 PM, Carrn said:

Use the PS proc if you have 4CP or less, and use RT once you hit 5-6 like normal. Capping on energy at this point is pretty much expected, and isn't really a big deal.

Its pretty valid to use Sabre Slash over PS even when in procs in two situations since it does much less damage.

I am of the opinion that  During CoTDB + AR portion of bursting despite buffs that its not worth casting Pistol Shot since it does significantly less damage than Sabre Slash especially when you SS proc. My only doubt about thsi is that Pistol Shot has a very short animation relative to Sabre Slash so perhaps you get less Run Throughs out.

The second situation is when you have the Broadsides, one combo point from Ruthlessness and a Pistol Shot proc  I think that it could be a loss to cast the Pistol Shot into Sabre Slash and is better to cast Sabre Slash again and if you don't proc then use the Pistol Shot or to save it for when you refresh your Ghostly Strike if you keep getting procs.

This is of course until you unlock the Dreadblades talent Blunderbuss in which case it is certainly better to use that.

I'm interested in hearing other people opinions on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Xenon said:

 

Its pretty valid to use Sabre Slash over PS even when in procs in two situations since it does much less damage.

I am of the opinion that  During CoTDB + AR portion of bursting despite buffs that its not worth casting Pistol Shot since it does significantly less damage than Sabre Slash especially when you SS proc. My only doubt about thsi is that Pistol Shot has a very short animation relative to Sabre Slash so perhaps you get less Run Throughs out.

The second situation is when you have the Broadsides, one combo point from Ruthlessness and a Pistol Shot proc  I think that it could be a loss to cast the Pistol Shot into Sabre Slash and is better to cast Sabre Slash again and if you don't proc then use the Pistol Shot or to save it for when you refresh your Ghostly Strike if you keep getting procs.

This is of course until you unlock the Dreadblades talent Blunderbuss in which case it is certainly better to use that.

I'm interested in hearing other people opinions on this.

Not really sure that I understand what you're trying to say, but the idea is that you use PS when it won't cause you to overflow on CPs and you have a proc. If either one of those things is the case, you shouldn't be using PS - if it will cap you (ie: if you have 5 or 6 cp) you should use RT, and if you don't have a proc don't use PS

Even with AR up, energy isn't infinite, although it's ok to ignore the proc if you're already sitting on 90% for example

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/17/2016 at 7:01 PM, Carrn said:

Not really sure that I understand what you're trying to say, but the idea is that you use PS when it won't cause you to overflow on CPs and you have a proc. If either one of those things is the case, you shouldn't be using PS - if it will cap you (ie: if you have 5 or 6 cp) you should use RT, and if you don't have a proc don't use PS

Even with AR up, energy isn't infinite, although it's ok to ignore the proc if you're already sitting on 90% for example

Okay I think you actually summarised what I was trying to say much better with the last line there, sorry for taking so long to reply I wasn't sure what to write.

However I have a new question about stat priority.
Using these stat weights for the current iLvL

  • Agi: 1
  • Vers: 0.61
  • Haste: 0.56
  • Crit: 0.55
  • Mastery: 0.49

is it better to use an item that has a higher value with worse stats?
In my case I'm not sure whether to pick between a ring with iLvL 850 with 786 crit & 1049 haste +a socket and an enchant for 300 vers or to use the other that has iLvL840 707 crit & 1061 + 150 vers with enchant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Okay I think you actually summarised what I was trying to say much better with the last line there, sorry for taking so long to reply I wasn't sure what to write.

However I have a new question about stat priority.
Using these stat weights for the current iLvL

  • Agi: 1
  • Vers: 0.61
  • Haste: 0.56
  • Crit: 0.55
  • Mastery: 0.49

is it better to use an item that has a higher value with worse stats?
In my case I'm not sure whether to pick between a ring with iLvL 850 with 786 crit & 1049 haste +a socket and an enchant for 300 vers or to use the other that has iLvL840 707 crit & 1061 + 150 vers with enchant.

The general rule is that item level is always better, but lets look at how stat weights work.

Let's use 2 examples from Wowhead as examples:

Wristwraps of Broken TrustWristwraps of Broken Trust (I'll write WBT) andDragonspur WristguardsDragonspur Wristguards (I'll write DW)

WBT has 729 Agi, 288 Crit, and 445 Mastery. To find the value of this item, we first must find the value of those different stats, then add the values of each stat together.

  • 729 x 1 = 729
  • 288 x 0.55 = 158.4
  • 445 x 0.49 = 218.05
  • 729 + 158.4 + 218.05 = 1105.45

DW has 729 Agi, 509 Crit, and 225 Haste

  • 729 x 1 = 729
  • 509 x 0.55 = 279.95
  • 225 x 0.56 = 126
  • 729 + 279.95 + 126 = 1134.95

Using this method, we can see that DW is a better bracer than WBT. 

The same thing goes for items of different levels, although hopefully you can see that the value of Agility is significantly higher than the value of any other stat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Carrn said:

The general rule is that item level is always better, but lets look at how stat weights work.

Let's use 2 examples from Wowhead as examples:

Wristwraps of Broken TrustWristwraps of Broken Trust (I'll write WBT) andDragonspur WristguardsDragonspur Wristguards (I'll write DW)

WBT has 729 Agi, 288 Crit, and 445 Mastery. To find the value of this item, we first must find the value of those different stats, then add the values of each stat together.

  • 729 x 1 = 729
  • 288 x 0.55 = 158.4
  • 445 x 0.49 = 218.05
  • 729 + 158.4 + 218.05 = 1105.45

DW has 729 Agi, 509 Crit, and 225 Haste

  • 729 x 1 = 729
  • 509 x 0.55 = 279.95
  • 225 x 0.56 = 126
  • 729 + 279.95 + 126 = 1134.95

Using this method, we can see that DW is a better bracer than WBT. 

The same thing goes for items of different levels, although hopefully you can see that the value of Agility is significantly higher than the value of any other stat

This clarifies pretty much what I thought but was unsure of because with stats like Mastery and Crit stacking them makes their effects more apparent because of the proc chance associated with them. Going purely off stat weights it should be easy to pick determine the more effective piece of gear, thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Xenon said:

This clarifies pretty much what I thought but was unsure of because with stats like Mastery and Crit stacking them makes their effects more apparent because of the proc chance associated with them. Going purely off stat weights it should be easy to pick determine the more effective piece of gear, thanks again.

Yeah that sort of thing is already factored in when looking at stat weights.

It's a pretty complicated bit of math, but what basically happens is Simulations are run that checks the damage increase of one stat over another. If you're interested in the Math behind it, you should head over to Ravenholdt and check out Fierydemise's work. He and a number of other people on there do all kinds of math for Rogues of every spec, and it gets pretty interesting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Tessivento
      Hi all.
      I recently went Guardian from Resto. Theoretically I know my rotation, cd, etc. I'm running Antorus HC, i got the curve and i think to hold with not many problems every boss but seeing my logs my performance is always low.

      I don't know where I make my mistakes but I think to have these issues:
      My damage taken is always minor than other tanks; My damage dealt... same (I build my bear full defense but my dps seems to be too low); Sometimes i have threat problem (especially with paladins or warrior); I should selfheal more but i don't see the need when I am full: i prefer to stack ironfur. What can i do to improve?

      If you wanna see my armor, look here.
      I don't aim to shine, but, at least, be on a average rank :p
       
      Thank you all
    • By Hanz39
      I've never shared a deck but I'll make an exception sharing one of my most successful decks (played on the ladder up to rank 3 several months)
      It's a Keleseth Rogue with very peculiar cards and the biggest difference is that Deathwing is mostly the win-condition of the deck
      Here is the masterpiece :D
      2X Backstab
      2X Shadowstep
      2X Elven Archer
      2X Swashburglar
      2X Southsea Deckhand
      1X Patches the Pirate
      1X Prince Keleseth
      1X Acolyte of Pain
      2X SI:7 Agent
      2X Southsea Captain
      1X Edwin VanCleef
      1X Shaku, the Collector
      2X Saronite Chain Gang
      2X Nesting Roc
      2X Vilespine Slayer
      1X The Black Knight
      1X The Curator
      2X Bonemare
      1X Deathwing
       
      Elven Archer is mainly a combo activator that is more useful than Fire Fly since it does damage and can be shadowstepped if needs and save countless damage to face when big minions remain on the field with 1 hp saving you from taking huge face  damage to ping them, the card really shine in the deck to the point to deserving to name it
      The Curator is there to pull Deathwing mostly and you get also a Nesting Roc in the process
      Nesting Roc takes the place of Cobalt Scalebane commonly seen to add synergy to Curator, give a strong minion that priest almost never remove or a 7 hp taunt that I find more useful than a 5/5 do nothing
      The Black Knight was added to help Vilespine removing high health minions that mostly have taunt to direct Vilespine on the other minions
      Deathwing is the big surprise because it usually win matches on its own even matches that are completely off control can be win thanks to him.
      Most people tend to go all in when see a Rogue in late game because almost nobody with similar decks bring aoe removal and even less can suspect that the dragon you pull with The Curator is Deathwing himself wrongfully think that is probably a Cobalt Scalebane
      Against a Jade Druid landing a Deathwing is almost guaranteed to end the game because they spend any removal on the other minions and tend to go wide with boards resulting in losing 6-7 minions and have to face a 12 attack minion that they need at least 2 turns, turns they don't have cause Deathwing going face and leaving them dead.
      Not drawing Keleseth early here isn't much a loss because you not need to win as fast as possible othwerwise you are doomed because usually the plan B works better than the plan A because the deck run so many minion that almost nobody save a removal for the 'surprise' Deathwing.
      If someone wants try it let me know how was. I used this from rank 15 to 3 for 3 months already winning most of the matches without much problems against the most commonly found decks in standard.
       
    • By TheKaiser
      I have a few questions concerning the upcoming expansion:
      First I wanted to ask, how everything with legendarys and artefacts is now going to be, are there still gonna be legendarys with the same role as in Legion and what about artefacts, are the HoA armors the new artefacts ?
       
      Furthermore I wanted to know wheter or not pvp is mandatory for warfronts and island plundering or if you don't need to be a top pvp player to still achieve some nice things and interesting rewards.
       
      With warfronts I also wanted to enquire how the gameplay most likely will look like, they are pve events so you shouldn't need to be a pvp player, right ?
      Also one last question, how hard do you think the warfront rewards will be to get ? The transmog does look quite nice and I wanted to ask if it is gonna be something, that is going to be locked and only available to hardcore players
    • By Violentravi
      Hello,
      The Sworn is recruiting DPS.  We are a Horde guild on Arthas and our current progression is 4/9 Mythic TOS.  We only raid two nights a week, Tuesday and Wednesday from 9:05 PM until 12:05 AM Eastern.  Currently, our main goal is to push Mythis TOS progression versus clearing farmed content, please keep this in mind if you wish to join us.
      From you, we would expect 100% attendance during your trial period; after that if you cannot make a raid or will be late it is mandatory to keep the raid leader updated.  In order to continue making good progression while raiding only two nights a week, we expect that you know your class inside-out and will research any bosses you are unfamiliar with prior to raids.
       If you are interested, you can either reply to this thread and link your most recent combat logs for review or hit me up on battlenet, Violentnacho, recruiting officer (violentravi#1826.
      Thank you for your consideration
      Xoxo
      Violentnacho
    • By Murmuredozon
      Salutations !
      Vous avez eu la sagacité d'ouvrir ce message de recrutement, et vous allez en être récompensés. Car la BiZon Team recrute et s'intéresse à vous : on a toujours besoin de gens intelligents. À vous donc ses verts pâturages paradisiaques, ses bovins majestueux et des lendemains glorieux !
      La BiZon Team est une guilde de l'Alliance à vocation PvE domiciliée sur Elune. Nous raidons les lundis et les jeudis de 21h à minuit et nettoyons le mode HM à chaque palier de l'extension (9/9H actuellement). Notre objectif est de retourner progresser en mode mythique dès que nos effectifs le permettront. Ainsi, afin de compléter notre roster de raid, nous ouvrons une phase de recrutement. Si nous avons déjà nos deux tanks attitrés, nous recrutons toutefois des DPS et des healers sans distinction de classes et de spécialisations.
      Si le nom de la guilde ne vous est pas familier, c'est que nous venons juste de migrer sur Elune. Née il y a fort longtemps sur DAoC, la BiZon Team a en effet parcouru les prés du serveur Cho'gall depuis la sortie du jeu (Vanilla). Son nom délicat, agréable à l'œil et à l'oreille, est une déformation de bisontin, les habitants de Besançon dont était issue la très grande majorité des membres fondateurs. Bon, depuis, les choses ont bien changé : on s'est agrandit et on compte désormais des parisiens, des bretons, des lyonnais, des gens du nord, du centre, du sud... même des suisses et des belges, c'est vous dire comme on est ouvert ;-) .
      Malgré tout ce brassage culturel, l'essence de la guilde est restée la même depuis le début : avancer sérieusement sans se prendre au sérieux. La guilde propose un forum, un calendrier d'inscription et un serveur vocal Discord. Ce dernier est réservé aux consignes et informations claires et concises durant les boss, mais l'ambiance entre les pulls y est chaleureuse, conviviale et, il faut bien le dire, souvent grivoise. À ce titre d'ailleurs, si vous êtes mineurs, cela risque de poser quelques problèmes. Outre le fait que la moyenne d'âge de la guilde a allègrement dépassé la barre de la trentaine et que vous vous sentirez peut-être parfois en décalage avec le reste d'entre nous, le filtre à obscénités ne saurait protéger entièrement vos yeux chastes et il ne fonctionne pas sur Discord. Non pas que nous soyons une meute de gros lourdauds en rut, mais il arrive qu'une blague salace ou un bon mot un peu gras fleurissent ici ou là. À vous donc de voir si ces quelques réserves ne vous découragent pas ;-) .
      Bref, si ce message a piqué votre intérêt, si vous partagez l'amour des jeux de mots pourris et des références musicales et cinématographiques douteuses, que vous aimiez progresser en PvE dans le sérieux et la bonne humeur ou que vous préfériez jouer à votre rythme en profitant de l'ambiance de la guilde, nous vous invitons à nous rejoindre !
      Pour postuler, rendez-vous sur le site bzt.fr, créez un compte et faites un post de candidature ! L'ensemble de la guilde est prête à répondre à vos questions et à vous accueillir à bras ouverts.
      Meuh !