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Fire Mage looking for advice regarding burst and sustained dps

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As described in the title I am looking for assistance in playing Fire Mage, so info dump here:


Artifact, Talents and Stats screenshots included.

The 3rd Relic on Felo'Melorn is an ilvl840 Molten Giant's Eye that provides +1 to Burning Gaze (1% increased Fire Critical damage)

Finally, I have a WarcraftLog of a 4:21 rotation example against a Greater Bulwark Construct in the Mage Order Hall (and will update the post with a mythic or something as soon as I can).

My concerns are currently the amount of time I spend fishing for Heating Up procs and my low burst on the start of fights despite following the opening rotation recommendations very closely. Sometimes I have a slip and miss a Pyromaniac proc (will set up a WA notification for that soon) or I activate Flame On a bit too early but those mistakes are getting a lot less frequent. The WarcraftLogs example is fairly representative of how I usually do it. It also shows how I delay using my cooldowns so that they are ready for use all together. Despite all this I sometimes average around 110-120k on trash packs (and I only use Flamestrike on 5 or above monsters). My single target is also not spectacular and I hover around 150-160k. Either way, I do feel like I am underperforming in relation to my ilvl and wish to improve.

Any advice or comments would be appreciated!



Edited by Lapideus

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Hey, I just had a quick look into your logs.

For what I can say by now is, that you're skilled right and your gear is on the right way :)

Now to your rotation:

The opening sequence should look like descriped in the guide: 

  1. Use Potion of Deadly Grace Icon Potion of Deadly Grace.
  2. Pre-cast Pyroblast Icon Pyroblast at 4.5 seconds on the countdown.
  3. Cast Fireball Icon Fireball.
  4. Cast Fire Blast Icon Fire Blast when Heating Up Icon Heating Up activates.
  5. Place Rune of Power Icon Rune of Power.
  6. Activate Combustion Icon Combustion.
  7. Activate any on-use trinkets or racials you have.
  8. Cast Pyroblast Icon Pyroblast.
  9. Cast Fire Blast Icon Fire Blast.
  10. Cast Pyroblast Icon Pyroblast.
  11. Activate Flame On Icon Flame On.
  12. Cast Fire Blast Icon Fire Blast.
  13. Cast Pyroblast Icon Pyroblast.
  14. Cast Fire Blast Icon Fire Blast.
  15. Cast Pyroblast Icon Pyroblast.
  16. Cast Icon Phoenix's Flames.
  17. Cast Pyroblast Icon Pyroblast.
  18. Cast Icon Phoenix's Flames.
  19. Cast Pyroblast Icon Pyroblast.

If you get any procs from Pyromaniac Icon Pyromaniac, simply use them immediately. The opener is of paramount importance. It is recommended you practice in LFR or on a target dummy to build enough muscle memory to consistently execute it without flaws.

For me it is better to use a Phoenix's Flames at the beginning, cause I've got the second golden trait and I would waste some procs of that.

Your normal rotation looks good for what I can see, except for the usage of Phoenix's Flames. The log says that you used them 3 times and that is far too low for a 4:15 fight.
Well this was a dummy fight and you didn't have to move, but in my eyes it is worth to cancel a fireball and use a PF if you've got at least 2 stacks, to get a Hot Streak! OR use them if you have to move in a fight.
So if you're out of Fire Blasts, cancel the second Fireball and use PF instead to get your Hot Streak!

Furthermore you have to keep in mind to always cast a Fireball before using your Hot Streak! to fish for the Pyros (you're doing it but not every time).


Your concerns about the DMG in AoE situations are absolutly unnecessary. Fire mages aren't that good at AoE situations at the moment.
But your singletarget DMG should be good if you compare yourself to others with the same itemlvl, you should be on the first places. The burstphase is absolutly insane if you're doing it right, due to Pyretic Incanatation. Just train the opening sequence till you fell asleep while perfoming :D

Hopefully my thoughts can help you out :)



Edited by Lily

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Lily, thanks for looking over my character and logs, much appreciated! I will definitely work on my opening rotation to include Phoenix Flames and use it more proactively (I have been trying to get over the "don't use your long CDs!" mentality I learnt in earlier expansions). I'm about 20,000 AP away from Phoenix Reborn which will help out with that too. Changing how I use Fireball might be a bit harder as it has become almost muscle memory but I understand the reasoning behind what you're saying for movement fights and generating more Hot Streak! procs.

But for now - practice :D

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I have been trying to get over the "don't use your long CDs!" 

Due to Kindeling your CD isn't that long anymore  :)

I am happy to help and wish you good luck practicing!

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I am not quite sure that opening sequence is right.

First of all if you open up with the potion of Deadly Grace you want to go into Combustion ASAP as its procs profit from the 100% crit. Secondly do not pre cast Pyroblast if you have the potion in you. The potion does 20-30k DPS so start the rotation of as fast as possible. You should go:

Fireball (1.8 sec precast)
Rune of Power
Phoenixflame as you Combust
and if the first Fireball did not crit go Fireblast here else go into normal rotation of
FB > Pyro > FB > Pyro > FB > Pyro > FB > Pyro > PF > Pyro > PF > Pyro then second ROP into Fireball Pyro

If you are in a Dungeon and do not Prepot then precast the Pyro. If you have CiS instead of Kindling because you run a Dungeon you should open RoP Precast then CiS and press Combust at the tailend of CiS so you get insta 5 stacks of your artifact trait and then PF into Fireblast and then rotation.

As to the rotation with Kindling it is all a bit difficult to time. I had my problems withstanding the need to press the Rune on CD but generally you want to only use Phoenixflames when you stand on your RoP. I would also only use Flame on with RoP. If your Combust is about to come of CD then save the flameon as its CD is rather long. Always have Flame on and PFs for your Combustions and ONLY use combust with RoP.

So Basically your rotation consists of:

First Burst (opener) then the second RoP as a follow up directly after the first. Then you have 30 secs (the CD for the RoP to come of CD again) to do regular Damage. Fishing Pyros and using your regular Fireblast. Then with the RoP you should use the PF and Flame On. Then you have another 30 seconds to bridge. With alot of Luck Combust is about to come up (if you have kindling) so you have to wait a bit for that RoP so that you combine it with Combustion. And then you start over agian. This process is about 1:45 min. After that you "restart". Now the RoPs obviously are a bit longer apart but the genral idea remains the same. If you have a RoP up and Flame on off CD and combust 40 secs away. Use Flame on. Else wait for combust. etc

Just play alot and you'll get the hang  of it.

Edited by myusen

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On 9/27/2016 at 11:14 AM, myusen said:

Fireball (1.8 sec precast)
Rune of Power
Phoenixflame as you Combust
and if the first Fireball did not crit go Fireblast here else go into normal rotation of
FB > Pyro > FB > Pyro > FB > Pyro > FB > Pyro > PF > Pyro > PF > Pyro then second ROP into Fireball Pyro

Just a comment about this very standard opener. I have found that after you use your first 2 FB it is best to go right into using PF. When you use Flame On it clips whatever CD you have burned through already. If you cast 3 PF+Pyro chains, or 2 PF and a lucky pyromaniac proc you have given FB enough time to gain a charge, then use Flame On for a total of 5 FB during RoP+combustion reliably. 

Also, I have found that waiting to cast Combustion until my first Pyro is in flight allows me to squeeze an extra pyros out. I often have time to cast a scortch after going through the entire burst combo perfectly with 5 FB and 3 PF's(Troll racial helps) and still have a secong of combustion. I might miss on a FB not being cast in the RoP, but Pryos in RoP is top priority, followed by just pyros in general.

This leads into my question. Until recently i have been treating RoP fairly regularly outside of Combustion. I will make sure I have a PF or FB coming up, to give me to best chance of my chains, but I do not alter the sustain rotation of Fireball+Pryo filler. Recently I've been seeing people interrupt the Fireball in order to FB or PF in order to get more Pyros off in the RoP. Is this correct?

While close to 50% crit the Fireball+pyro combo has something like a 75% chance of getting at least 1 crit. The travel time creates enough of a delay that if you start to cast fireball immediately and get a heating up, you have already spent a global and part of a cast. Is it not better to finish at this point? And even spending a Pyromaniac proc just because your in RoP with a 50% crit seems silly when you could have an increased chance of crit with the combo. My "Always Be Casting" mindset has a hard time with cancelling a cast and a global spent, but I know that pyro is far and away our biggest damage dealer.

The exception being when my crit trinket procs and I can gamble one pretty reliable crits with pyro and play almost as if Combustion is up.

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