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Fury Warrior 5.4

120 replies to this topic Started by Damien, Aug 25 2012 11:23 PM comments warrior fury

Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:23 PM

#1
Damien
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This thread is for comments about our Fury Warrior guide.

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:40 AM

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smallpackage
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So according to my testing and mmo-champs testing, crit is your best stat over str because

Critical Strike Rating: Critical Strike Rating: Crit is the greatest secondary stat we can have after capping hit and expertise, especially as Fury. The more crit you have, the higher uptimes you have on Enrage because of the fact that Bloodthirst and Colossus Smash critical hits proc Enrage. Bloodthirst has a baseline double chance to be a critical strike, meaning the more crit you stack, the more of a chance that BT is going to be a guaranteed enrage.


How did you make your decision to list STR over Crit and why?

Edited by smallpackage, 28 August 2012 - 08:40 AM.

Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:19 AM

#3
Vlad
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Thank you for your post. We're grateful that you picked up this mistake. It was a remnant of an older draft that somehow did not get updated. The guide has now been rectified. We would add, though, that we find it unlikely that this statistic priority will remain the same all the way into Mists of Pandaria. We imagine Blizzard will enact a change in the mechanics of Fury Warriors that will make Critical Strike Rating much less desirable. Of course, this remains to be seen. Thanks again, and let us know if you find any other inconsistencies.

Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:44 PM

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tenaciouzd
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How did you arrive at the gear listing? I would have thought 391 fl helm and 397 boe belt would have moved to bis for fury, and possibly the valor 397 ring.

Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:32 PM

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Your off hand for TG should be the Axe in DS Experimental Specimen Slicer due to it being Crit/Mastery vs. Crit./Haste. Mastery is a better stat then Haste for Fury. It increased the damage done while enraged vs. slightly increasing rage generation

Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:28 PM

#6
influxreptile
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Thanks for the great guide!

I'm the person who writes the SMF fury sticky at the top of the EU forums so I've read this with a lot of attention and I've got a few small remarks:

Unless it has changed Glyph of Colossus Smash should automatically apply sunder armor when you use it. There's no need to manually apply the first sunder as the guide says.

Also seeing that Dragon Roar is no longer affected by armor we should avoid spending a GCD on it during CS unless we have nothing but a non-procced wild strike to fill the next gcd.

The glyph giving you 120 rage is quite bad right now. There's practically never a moment where you need more than 90 rage at the start of a CS rotation and seeing that rage income is fairly small right now I doubt that anyone but a badly trained warrior will ever benefit from a bigger rage pool.

It's quite established that unless they make very major changes Storm Bolt will be very weak in PvE compared to blood bath and Avatar. With Blood Bath adding 30% damage to everything you do for 36 seconds per three minnutes while Avatar only gives 20% damage and 30% rage for 20 seconds it seems that Blood Bath should be the clear winner seeing that the Bleed most likely ignores armor.

Even without that you Blood Bath would give you an average of 6% damage bonus while Avatar gives you 2.2% damage. As this is not even half as good there is no chance that 30% more rage for 20 seconds per 180 seconds, which in fact should only add a few heroic strikes and perhaps unprocced wild strikes, will somehow be worth almost twice as much as the flat damage portion of the cooldown.

Next is about when to use heroic strike. Being safe is a good thing and 80 rage might be a good choice for a beginner but more experienced warriors should probably use it at a lower amount of rage than that as a double white hit + bloodthirst will easily bring you from 80 rage to over 100 (= wasted). That is of course if you can agree with the above section in this post dealing with the glyph that gives you a maximum of 120 rage.

I also currently think that using Bloodthirst during CS in the execute phase when you're already enraged is a loss of DPS. During the CS you want to hit as hard as possible which pretty much means execute. Outside of execute and raging blow. Even a procced Wild strike would be superb as it means you can squeeze in another GCD (execute or RB) at the 5.5 second mark.

Have you done the maths for whirlwind/RB combinations at 3 targets? Whirlwind seems to be incredibly weak right now and while RB is strong I doubt it's worth using 2 GCDS on an ability that practically does no damage at all on 3 targets just so that you can unleash a raging blow afterwards. I might be wrong here of course.

Using berserker rage on cooldown or in combination with colossus smash is absolutely the wrong way to go. You want to have berserker rage ready in case your current enrage runs out during the CS or to proc a second RB during the colossus smash if necessary. Blindly using it every colossus smash will most likely overlap enrage uptime and might possibly add a useless third RB as you can only stack 2.
-Example: BT-CS-berserker rage combination. If in this scenario both your BT and CS crit your berserker rage will effectively be worth only 1.5 second of enrage (and that is IF you don't bt crit again during the CS uptime), won't give you an extra raging blow proc and thus just give you a minor portion of rage that you shouldn't need if you pooled properly.

If I'm not wrong the question on whether heroic strike or an unprocced Wild Strike is more damage per rage remains unanswered. I personally believe HS should be the logical winner here but there's no conclusive proof on it yet.

For the more advanced section: It's still under investigation whether or not vigilance damage taken is going to give you extra rage in berserker stance. If it does it's most likely a good DPS cooldown in situations where the damage is high but healable.

I don't understand this : "Expertise Rating, up to the soft cap of 7.5%, is your worst statistic."
So do you mean expertise is already incredible shit up to the soft cap where it gets even worse? Because this way it seems as if expertise is somehow no longer the worst statistic once you reach the soft cap (which is impossible I'd say). I also somehow doubt that expertise is worse than every other stat up until the soft cap as practically all of your abilities can be dodged...

I hope this helps you finishing this already very useful guide,

kind regards.

Edited by influxreptile, 28 August 2012 - 11:02 PM.

Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:56 PM

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Vlad
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*useful stuff*


Thank you so much for your post! There was a lot of useful information there, and I incorporated most of it to the guide. The changes should show up in a little bit.

I really appreciate your help, and if there's anything else you'd like to add, feel free!

Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:09 AM

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Gnomechomski
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I can confirm the MMO champion guide's recommendation that you gear for Crit over Strength. Simcraft generates stat weights for my 408avg geared warrior of 2.78 Strength, 4.30 Crit. Therefore you should update your guide to Enchants, Gems and Consumables to suggest gemming +50 crit in every socket apart from the 3 orange hybrid gems required to activate your meta. The meta should also be the 54 crit/3% crit effect gem. Good guide though, quirky new gearing priorities aside :).

Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

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Vlad
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I can confirm the MMO champion guide's recommendation that you gear for Crit over Strength. Simcraft generates stat weights for my 408avg geared warrior of 2.78 Strength, 4.30 Crit.

Therefore you should update your guide to Enchants, Gems and Consumables to suggest gemming +50 crit in every socket apart from the 3 orange hybrid gems required to activate your meta. The meta should also be the 54 crit/3% crit effect gem.

Good guide though, quirky new gearing priorities aside Posted Image.


Thanks for pointing this out. We'll do our best to get the enchants section updated later today or tomorrow (for both this guide and the Arms one). And thank you for your compliments on the guide :)

Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:23 AM

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Vlad
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It has been accordingly updated :)

Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:10 PM

#11
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The BiS list is still displaying Cudgel for OH, which is most likely wrong. Not 100% sure about these, but wouldn't the 397 JP ring and belt with Crit/Mastery be better than the 410 alternatives with haste/mastery, given the boost in crit rating's value.

Posted 05 September 2012 - 10:43 PM

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i wasnt able to do any math about it but i crafted some mighty rage potions to use in execute phase and they looked very handy... can they compete with strenght one at this point? execute hit like a truck

Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:51 AM

#13
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Hello there,

I appreciate the effort you put into making this guide (and that of the above posters who provided some new information) but I do have a question concerning your (Vlad's) first response to a poster above.

You mention that you (personally and "you" collectively as Icy Veins and / or Inner Sanctum?) believe that the stat priority might change deeper into MoP due to stat changes Blizzard may make. I believe this is possible because anything can happen and balance is something Blizzard makes changes for quite often; however, I would ask why you believe this quite so strongly when it's a rather stated (and presumably achieved, at least with Fury Warrior stats) goal of Blizzard's to sort of end the "reign" of base stats as king - that is why in MoP stat gems have equivalent numbers for "pure" base stat and "pure" rating gems - so in effect, isn't it what was set as a goal to make a combat rating a more desirable stat?

I'm just curious because quite frankly I am pleased to see critical strike trumping strength as a desirable stat since we have not seen such a thing since Wrath of the Lich King when DPS Blood Death Knights and Warriors were gemming Armor Penetration (and to a lesser extent..when the most desirable plate and trinkets were those that provided flat "ignore armor" amounts in BC) so I'd love to know if you think Blizzard will change this solely because base stats should reign supreme or because you believe crit simply doesn't belong where it is or is too strong (similar to Wrath-era Armor Penetration) at this point and will only spiral out of control as gear-levels increase?

Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:33 PM

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War
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(H)BIS Changes
Trinkets
Creche of the Final Dragon
Rotting Skull

Waist
Demonbone Waistguard

Edited by War, 07 September 2012 - 09:35 PM.

Posted Image

Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:00 PM

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Vlad
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Hello there,

I appreciate the effort you put into making this guide (and that of the above posters who provided some new information) but I do have a question concerning your (Vlad's) first response to a poster above.

You mention that you (personally and "you" collectively as Icy Veins and / or Inner Sanctum?) believe that the stat priority might change deeper into MoP due to stat changes Blizzard may make. I believe this is possible because anything can happen and balance is something Blizzard makes changes for quite often; however, I would ask why you believe this quite so strongly when it's a rather stated (and presumably achieved, at least with Fury Warrior stats) goal of Blizzard's to sort of end the "reign" of base stats as king - that is why in MoP stat gems have equivalent numbers for "pure" base stat and "pure" rating gems - so in effect, isn't it what was set as a goal to make a combat rating a more desirable stat?

I'm just curious because quite frankly I am pleased to see critical strike trumping strength as a desirable stat since we have not seen such a thing since Wrath of the Lich King when DPS Blood Death Knights and Warriors were gemming Armor Penetration (and to a lesser extent..when the most desirable plate and trinkets were those that provided flat "ignore armor" amounts in BC) so I'd love to know if you think Blizzard will change this solely because base stats should reign supreme or because you believe crit simply doesn't belong where it is or is too strong (similar to Wrath-era Armor Penetration) at this point and will only spiral out of control as gear-levels increase?


The reason I believe this is not really evidence based. I understand the desired stance of Blizzard to get rid of base stats as "king", but frankly, I don't really see it happening with any other class, and I feel that Fury/Arms Warriors will not be left as the exception.

I'm aware of the gem changes, but I just don't see it panning out like this unless Blizzard further alter the benefits of stats.

And just to clarify this is my own opinion. :)

Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:17 PM

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Highlighting what Curdi said earlier, the BiS list really lets the rest of this down, the stat priority & rotation are on the money but there are several slots which are not coherent with the previous sections. OH should be Experimental Specimen slicer, waist should be Demonbone Waistguard, Breathstealer band should b replaced with ring of flesh & arguably creche & EoU can be replaced with heroic vessel of acceleration and/or rotting skull. While I can appreciate keeping the trinkets listed due to the lack of concise evidence supporting a clear pair the latter three really need updating.

Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:18 PM

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Vlad
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Highlighting what Curdi said earlier, the BiS list really lets the rest of this down, the stat priority & rotation are on the money but there are several slots which are not coherent with the previous sections. OH should be Experimental Specimen slicer, waist should be Demonbone Waistguard, Breathstealer band should b replaced with ring of flesh & arguably creche & EoU can be replaced with heroic vessel of acceleration and/or rotting skull.

While I can appreciate keeping the trinkets listed due to the lack of concise evidence supporting a clear pair the latter three really need updating.


Thank you. The changes are being made as we speak, and should be up shortly :)

Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:13 AM

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Almost done!

Rotting Skull > Eye of Unmaking
Obsidian Signet of the Avengers > Curled Twilight Claw

Enjoy Posted Image

Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:10 AM

#19
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Almost done!

Rotting Skull > Eye of Unmaking
Obsidian Signet of the Avengers > Curled Twilight Claw

Enjoy Posted Image


While we are at it...for arguements sake...You might note that the 2p heroic FL set (using legs and chest) is much better than the t13 4p. Considering the fact that t13 chest/legs don't have Crit as a base stat on them, and t12 do. The t12 2p bonus is awesome too!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:58 AM

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Another great guide from IV Posted Image.
The only problem I saw with this guide was that in the Cooldown Usage section,http://icy-veins.com...downs-abilities , it mentions that for using Deadly Calm to watch for Taste of Blood stacks, which is an Arms only passive.

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