Damien

Heroes of the Storm Illidan

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This thread is for comments about our Illidan build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Damn, I realized this just now. Great guide by the way, although most of the talent choices for Illidan are quite obvious in the current meta. I'm still quite happy that you guys have Heroes section in Icy Veins! Can't wait for more guides. Is Srey going to detail every hero, or will others write guides here as well? I can't wait for more, even though writing these guides can be time consuming.

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We intend to have 3 writers, 2 of which will be Srey and Oxygen. We're still choosing our 3rd writer. These guides take a long time to write, but we should have Oxygen's Valla guide and Srey's Dragon Shire map guide up today. Srey's next guide is going to be Jaina.

In any case, I'm glad you're happy about our Heroes of the Storm section and we hope it will be as popular as the other sections.

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As a longtime Blizzard game player but a complete noob when it comes to MOBAS, this is an absolutely amazing resource.  I love this guide.  I know Illy is supposed to be very hard to play, but he is literally the reason I play the game so I'm just going to keep pounding my head against him.

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For the level 20 talents, Bolt of the Storm is "situational" on the icons but "not recommended" in the explanations.

Thanks for the heads up!

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So, under "Dive" it says to not use it to initiate, but under "Metamorphosis" it says to use Dive to initiate instead.

Does it mean Sweeping Strike perhaps?  :confused:

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So, under "Dive" it says to not use it to initiate, but under "Metamorphosis" it says to use Dive to initiate instead.

Does it mean Sweeping Strike perhaps?  :confused:

Basically, if you want to chase, it is best to initiate with Sweeping Strike first, if possible, as it allows you to save Dive to chase if they flee. If you can't get within range of Sweeping Strike, or you want to use Sweeping Strike to disengage, then you can use Dive.

 

Hope this helps.

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No The Hunt Build? Or how is it called nowadays „Lone Wolf Build”?

I don't think "The Hunt" is a viable build path.

 

Why's that? I find it more useful.

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Thanks for the great guide(s)!  I'm a lifelong gamer but am quite new to MOBAs so even if 'the talent choices are quite obvious in the current meta' (as stated above in a comment) having the choices lain out with the reasoning behind them is very useful.

 

One small thing, here you state 'Hunter's Onslaught provides comparable healing to Blood for Blood over several seconds, but lacks the damage and slow.' but the Blood for Blood talent doesn't have a slow component mentioned.  Perhaps that was changed in a previous patch?

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Thanks for the great guide(s)!  I'm a lifelong gamer but am quite new to MOBAs so even if 'the talent choices are quite obvious in the current meta' (as stated above in a comment) having the choices lain out with the reasoning behind them is very useful.

 

One small thing, here you state 'Hunter's Onslaught provides comparable healing to Blood for Blood over several seconds, but lacks the damage and slow.' but the Blood for Blood talent doesn't have a slow component mentioned.  Perhaps that was changed in a previous patch?

Yes, it changed two-three patches ago i think (i dont remember when tbh), before it slowed the target, making this tool extremely powerful for the heroes that have acces to it and well making illidan an exceptional chaser.

 

Right now it doesnt have the slow but its still a 10% instant damage and heal so that can be more useul when youre trying to bring someone down

 

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No The Hunt Build? Or how is it called nowadays „Lone Wolf Build”?

I don't think "The Hunt" is a viable build path.

 

Why's that? I find it more useful.

 

This is all explained in the guide. Please see this section.

 

The guide seems rather heavy handed in it's attempts to quash other potential Illidan builds. Thrill of Battle + Hunt is not only my favorite method of playing Illidan, but is also very effective on certain maps, against certain comps, or for punishing push attempts on low level players.

It also completely dismisses Giant Killer, not even considering it situational when it is fantastic against high HP heroes like Muradin, Uther, or Cho'gall.

I've no argument against Meta, as it is definitely the better standard pick for the damage and sustain it provides in teamfights, but to dismiss any Heroic ability for any hero is simply dismissing an entire half of that hero's potential.

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No The Hunt Build? Or how is it called nowadays „Lone Wolf Build”?

I don't think "The Hunt" is a viable build path.

 

Why's that? I find it more useful.

 

This is all explained in the guide. Please see this section.

 

The guide seems rather heavy handed in it's attempts to quash other potential Illidan builds. Thrill of Battle + Hunt is not only my favorite method of playing Illidan, but is also very effective on certain maps, against certain comps, or for punishing push attempts on low level players.

It also completely dismisses Giant Killer, not even considering it situational when it is fantastic against high HP heroes like Muradin, Uther, or Cho'gall.

I've no argument against Meta, as it is definitely the better standard pick for the damage and sustain it provides in teamfights, but to dismiss any Heroic ability for any hero is simply dismissing an entire half of that hero's potential.

 

Well, a few alternative builds might show up when the Illidan rework is done after the changes on the PTR hit.

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Hey guys, I'm going to take care of Illidan over the next few days, we have updated the Quick Overview section of the guide to give you good builds in the current meta. 

 

The remaining sections will follow shortly. :)

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On the section 3.4, you don't recomend "Friend or Foe", however that's one of the talents with a recommended image.

 

On the section 8.3

 

Nexus Blades is better if the enemy team lacks crowd control. It offers both a slow and superior damage over Demonic Form, especially since the attack speed from Metamorphosis synergises with the 20% damage bonus from Nexus Blades. Choose Nexus Blades if the enemy team lacks any hard crowd control (stuns, silences, polymorphs, roots).

Metamorphosis no longer increases attack speed. Only Demonic Form does it now.

 

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Due to reconstruction in our editorial staff, the Illidan guide is going to get reworked and corrected within the next few days. 

 

Thank you for understanding. :) 

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I've got a question regarding the proper usage of the marked for death talent. In my experience, either the chasing period in which you use dive is either to short in order to truly benefit from the damage bonus, or I use it to switch targets I feel i need to re-position. I have problems with blades of azzinoth as well but I feel that's more of a technical issue than a gameplay one. Any tips?

 

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I've got a question regarding the proper usage of the marked for death talent. In my experience, either the chasing period in which you use dive is either to short in order to truly benefit from the damage bonus, or I use it to switch targets I feel i need to re-position. I have problems with blades of azzinoth as well but I feel that's more of a technical issue than a gameplay one. Any tips?

I feel similar about Marked for Death. It can't be utilized in many situations because you need to switch targets or the fight is simply to short. But the bonus damage is quite high, so if it works out, it is great. Sometimes when chasing people (after a fight or when someone is out of position) it's easier to apply.

 

Blades of Azzinoth on the other hand is pretty simple I think. You get the stacks before the Teamfight and immediately activate it, once you start hitting your first target (unless you know he will disengage immediately). It lasts for 8 seconds, that pretty long.

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I've got a question regarding the proper usage of the marked for death talent. In my experience, either the chasing period in which you use dive is either to short in order to truly benefit from the damage bonus, or I use it to switch targets I feel i need to re-position. I have problems with blades of azzinoth as well but I feel that's more of a technical issue than a gameplay one. Any tips?

 

Hi,

 

One thing that should be noted is that MfD is also excellent for PvE and late game sieging purposes; if Illidan wasn't annoying enough on Core races, MfD pushes him to dreadful territories. In pure DPS races, MfD is nearly a 100 DPS gain over just using Basic Attacks and Sweeping Strike. This damage is further increased the less you get to freely hit a target, so in essence, it makes Dive part of your damage rotation (i.e. use on-cooldown). I'd pick it against Crowd Control-heavy teams, or when you have to deal with Imposing Presence / Cursed Strikes / Reverberation, etc. When I do pick it, I don't personally worry about triggering it against Heroes; it's almost one of those "it happens if it it does, and when it does it's great" talents, as all are on this tier.

 

Blades of Azzinoth is just that thing you use once or twice in a game to secure an important kill on a healer or some out of position player. Just make sure it isn't countered by one of the attack speed counters stated above. I wish I could tell you more, but the rework is extremely recent; Illidan is permabanned in most competitive games, and almost always in Hero/Team League.

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      Using the list
      As stated above, tier lists are easy to mistake for gospel. As new strategies are discovered and experimented with, so changes the perception of the relative strengths of each hero. Tier lists still prove to be useful as a snapshot of player expectations in terms of drafting. Although it is generally considered preferable to focus on high tier heroes (Prime and Core tiers), it is important to note that Heroes of the Storm's wild character and map designs make it so that any given hero's tier position is prone to fluctuate depending on the situation at hand.
      One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a low-to-mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective. Certain heroes also synergise so well with each other that the sole fact of having the opportunity of drafting them together is generally enough to increase their potential. Tassadar and Tracer, for instance, are generally nightmarish to deal with for many. There are too many examples of these interactions to reasonably produce here, but we invite you to consult our guides to know exactly where and when each hero shines. The guides have been linked in the lists below for your convenience - just click any of the hero names to access them.
      A ↑ next to a hero's name means its tier list position has increased since the previous month whereas a ↓ means just the opposite. Additionally, a + or - sign indicates short-to-medium term predictions (which is to say, about a month) for tier increase(s) or decrease(s), respectively. These are often updated after significant balance patches and/or when clear trends are emerging.
      If you're newer to the game, also consider visiting our glossary for a comprehensive list of discrete Heroes of the Storm terms.
      Current map rotation
       
      Prime Tier
      Warrior Assassin Support Specialist Arthas Genji - - E.T.C. Greymane     Sonya↑ Hanzo↑↑↑     Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness. They are very often banned or picked right away, as they generally dictate the pace of most matches.
       
      Core Tier
      Warrior Assassin Support Specialist Anub'arak Falstad Alexstrasza↑ Azmodan Dehaka Junkrat↑↑ Brightwing Nazeebo Diablo Kerrigan Lúcio Zagara Muradin Li-Ming Stukov↑ Sylvanas↑  Stitches Malthael↓ Uther   Varian (Tank) Nova↓-       Valla       Zul'jin     Core tier heroes are strong in a wide variety of situations and have few counter-picking possibility. They should form the core of your team, and be picked after Prime Tier heroes have been distributed.
       
      Viable Tier
      Warrior Assassin Support Specialist Artanis Alarak Ana Abathur D.Va Cassia Auriel Murky Garrosh Chromie Kharazim Probius Johanna Gul'dan Li Li+ Sgt. Hammer↑ Leoric Illidan Lt. Morales Xul Zarya Jaina Malfurion (reworked)+   Blaze (new) Kael'thas Rehgar   Tyrael (reworked)↑ Kel'Thuzad Tyrande     Lunara       Ragnaros       Samuro       The Butcher       Thrall↑       Tracer       Valeera↓↓-       Zeratul+     Viable tier heroes are generally well-rounded that have either fallen out of favour, or, inversely, are on the rise in popularity, due to the current Prime tier contenders.
       
      Niche Tier
      Warrior Assassin Support Specialist Chen Cho'gall Tassadar Gazlowe Cho'gall Raynor   Medivh Rexxar Tychus       Varian (Damage)     Niche tier heroes have niche application on certain maps or for certain team compositions. They are generally picked to "round out" your team composition when your team composition is missing out on key components, such as a "jungler" (mercenary camps), a solo laner, or solid waveclear.
       
      Bottom Tier
      The Lost Vikings Bottom tier Heroes are deemed to be either considerably weaker than the majority of other Heroes, or much more challenging to play properly. Although they may situationally shine, these Heroes are generally avoided by most players.
       
      Metagame assessment
      Happy new year to everyone. This list is a tad late, as was the last one, but I was, once again, waiting for one of those odd rework patches that come out a week after featured hero releases and go untested on the PTR for some reason. HGC matches also began just yesterday, meaning that new trends  are likely to emerge shortly; today saw unexpected Cassia, Tychus, and Leoric make an appearance, which was certainly exciting. As per usual, I'll be updating the list as I see fit throughout the next few weeks. The last few lists have generated quite a bit of discussion, which is great to see. Although I cannot reasonably respond to every comment, I do read everything posted. Keep it up!
      Blaze. My initial PTR assessment of the hero, which was quite positive, was followed by a sudden realization: he does a lot of things well, but nothing exceptionally well. Blaze is the quintessential jack of all trades, master of none type hero. Generally, that's not a particularly desirable trait, because heroes are generally picked for their niches to either counter opponents or synergise with allies. For a warrior, he can't really solo tank, meaning he often ends up in that strange spot where you need a pretty well fleshed out team composition to make him work. But when he works, he does work well. He can hold his own in a solo lane, but his waveclear isn't quite good enough to deal with mercenary camps pushing before Grill and Kill, which can be frustrating. Certain heroes, such as Leoric and Malthael, completely shut him down as well. This leads me to believe that he won't see much tournament play if at all, unless teams are messing around. Viable as a late pick when you don't really know what else to pick because your team composition is already fine.
      Sonya. She's currently the most popular pick in the game. You can't go wrong with a bulky solo laner that can duel nearly anyone, output as much damage as an assassin, and clear mercenary camps with ease. Leap lets her setup really well if your team composition lends itself to that. Still, I don't think she deserves bans.
      Hanzo. This important Overwatch figurehead could just not be allowed to remain seen as underpowered for over a month. After unsuccessfully giving him a blanket 10% damage buff across the board following poor PTR feedback, Blizzard adopted the bolder strategy of making his basic attacks deal ability levels of damage thanks to the Sharpened Arrowheads changes. What was initially supposed to be a difficult to master skillshot-based hero now  has access to what is arguably the most powerful basic attack in the game, though the Serrated Arrows + Never Outmatched combo I discussed last patch remains useful for trivializing map objectives on Battlefield of Eternity and Infernal Shrines while allowing Hanzo to solo any mercenary camp from level 7 and on. With the help of another hero, bosses also become possible at this level. Losing map control or suffering one or two early deaths against Hanzo is devastating. Explosive Arrows lets him waveclear relatively well too, though particularly with Piercing Arrows for double hits on minions. The Natural Agility range increase made it much more usable, to where Hanzo can now reliably escape most if not all heroes with proper positioning. It is interesting to note that these buffs coincided with Hanzo's first free week.
      Junkrat. The proverbial death of the double healer meta means it's time for sustained poke to shine. Junkrat's popularity exploded recently as players discovered that a mix of reliable ranged waveclear, playmaking (through Concussion Mine) and potentially fight winning RIP-Tire hits made the hero a force to be reckoned with. Just be sure to pick up Endless Nades; that's your late-game damage.
      Malthael. Hanzo does really well against him, so I'm not surprised by the dip in popularity. Malthael is still very powerful, though unlikely to draw bans before second round, if at all. Always a solid pick against double tank as well as a solo laner.
      Nova. She (along with Valeera) were allowed to remain oppressive for quite a while, benefiting from the turmoil generated by the stealth rework and Blizzard employees taking a couple weeks off for the holidays. Nova is now in a good spot, with clear counters and niches, though I'm still disliking how easy Lethal Decoy makes her to play. I feel like she'll keep a potential caster meta in check for quite some time now that she's back on the radar.
      Alexstrasza. She's doing rather well. Dragonqueen is now being appropriately treated (though not quite respected by opponents) as a heroic ability by players to fight over objectives and while sieging.
      Stukov. His high healing output makes him rather strong in a poke-heavy meta. I think players are going to experiment with the Growing Infestation + Virulent Reaction (+ Bio-Explosion Switch) combo to make Stukov a lot more aggressive than we're used to seeing him be. Flailing Swipe continues to be great as a pseudo-Mighty Gust in terms of disengaging. Stukov is probably one of the best solo "all purpose" hero leaguing healer at the moment.
      Sylvanas. Any change to minion or structure damage end up being indirect buffs or nerfs to Sylvanas. Since structures were recently buffed again and Sylvanas's direct counters were nerfed quite heavily, I think she's back to being relatively high priority. Possession is really strong now, as is Mercenary Queen, though only if there's nothing for Barbed Shot to work on.
      Tyrael. Though he's not notably more powerful than he was before, I think his rework opened up a viable bruiser build for him, increasing his versatility. He's sitting at a healthy 50% win rate at the time of writing. HGC already saw him picked rather often - though, that's pre-Tyrael patch, where he is arguably weaker - , and I'm certainly looking forward to see what kind of builds players are going to gravitate towards. Holy Ground is still great, and comes online 3 levels earlier than it did before.
      Valeera. She suffered the same fate as Nova, though her overly simplistic ability set makes small nerfs very impactful. At the end of the day, she's probably going to require a broad rework, because as of right now, she either bursts her target down and feels "unfair", or doesn't and feel "worthless". Right now, she's erring on the side of the latter.
      Malfurion. Possibly one of the best rework ever done, though his vastly increased skill cap may make him less popular. His sustained healing output is excellent, but his lack of burst management still makes him difficult to play.