Why I have no faith left in blizzard.

[Twinkielock 15]

As a side note, if PvP is honestly the big complaint for this, here's an idea. Make some abilities that over power PvP but are just fine for PvE activate differently in BGs. You know, when you enter a BG it triggers something in the game that changes how specific abilities work? In all honestly it really wouldn't be that difficult to implement, just requires a little bit of extra coding into identifying zones and such

They already do this in Arena.

[Omaric 246]

...and the majority of the time we are still getting topped in dps by mages and warriors and a few others so why nerf it? A good example of how well it s balanced with the movement speed debuff can be seen in the Durumu fight. Can't tell you how many times I've spam casted Incinerate during the maze to only to nearly shit myself as the beam is right on my ass and catching me because I'm slowed by so much.

We wouldn't be getting nerfed it we were being beaten a majority of the time. Warlocks are wrecking meters right now. As for Durumu, run with the melee group, problem solved. The 30% slow is really nothing compared to what the talent gives.

[Kurze 0]

We wouldn't be getting nerfed it we were being beaten a majority of the time. Warlocks are wrecking meters right now. As for Durumu, run with the melee group, problem solved. The 30% slow is really nothing compared to what the talent gives.

Even running with the melee group can have the beam right on you, so no that doesn't necessarily solve it. And I have rarely ever seen a Warlock on top of the charts. Warriors, Shamans, and Mages, also Hunters are almost always on the top. If its a heavy AoE fight, that's a different story, Destro locks shine in AoE fights, but otherwise its not nearly as common as everyone makes it out to be.

The biggest argument still stands that there shouldn't be a nerf to the talent but rather just make Vengeance more appealing. Mannaroth has uses, so why doesn't Vengeance? That's the core of the issue.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Kurze

[Omaric 246]

The beam will be close to you, but that's the nature of the phase. You won't die if you're following the openings, even with a 30% slow. If you haven't seen a warlock top the charts it's because either there isn't a very skilled warlock in the raid, or everyone else far outgears them.

AV is appealing, as it is passive damage in raid. In PvP it's even better. MF has a few niches with Destruction, but overall isn't good enough to warrant taking often. KJC is a clear winner in almost every situation, which is why they are nerfing it. Why they gave us something like this to begin with is another story, but everyone is too attached to it now, and the thought of losing it is driving people crazy. Dem drug addictionz.

[Brown 14]

I agree, I do not understand why Blizz is being all hardcore "Its going, was not intended" on a spell that they specifically bufffed to its current state.

I also do not see why Blizzard considers increasing the movement penalty (either same 2 stack mechanic as is with higher percentage snare or allowing current stacks to go higher than 2), possibly to the point of rooting. Nor do I understand why after making a quality-of-life change, Blizzard has decided to do...what's the opposite of a quality-of-life change?

Either way, the logical way to go would be to either rework the talent while baselining certain filler spells to be castable on the move or keep as is while making AV and MF more attractive. Then again, given the fact that Ghostcrawler doesn't seem to play the same game players do, I am not surprised (more so after reading his previous employment history, which sadly isn't as bad as the employment/educational history of a particular dev from a particular recently-gone-F2Play MMO I left a few months ago...).

[Cruzan 71]

Cruzan. Now I know where you derived your name from. Clearly someone fell off the wagon.

"Stumbled" across that one did you? Now I'm all thirsty....too bad it's only 10:30 in the morning. bah

[Zagam 1,982]

10:30a is too early for a drink? You need to come to West Virginia, boy! We have this little program called Kegs & Eggs, and it starts at 6:30am before football games!

[vaeevictiss 17]

10:30a is too early for a drink? You need to come to West Virginia, boy! We have this little program called Kegs & Eggs, and it starts at 6:30am before football games!

and you guys have the hatfield mccoy atv trail system which is incredible lol.

[Zagam 1,982]

Morgantown is located in the upper part of the state, just 6-10 miles from the Pennsylvania border. We consider ourselves the more civilized part of the state despite our 6:30am drinking festivities. The Hatfield and McCoy story line you speak of is in southwestern West Virginia where the state meets Kentucky. Even we don't go to that part of the wilderness.

I say civilized drinking because we use a schedule. Schedules make everything official:

Saturday noon gamedays:

6:00: non-freshmen wake up

6:30: Kegs delivered to parties, trailers, frat houses

7:00: Freshies awaken

7:30: Freshies arrive at tailgates

8:00: Mass drinking and feasting festivities begin

11:00: Pour into stadium

3:00 Sing Country Roads after a victory

4:00 Arrive home for a nap

6:00 Eat Dinner

7:00 Pre-game

8:00 Head to party/bar

From here, the schedule gets fuzzy.

TL;DR: We're civilized because we use a schedule.

[Grimsheeper 1]

I guess what I don't understand is given that Locks were turret casters for literally years prior to the introduction of KJC, and that KJC has been a part of Locks for what, maybe 15% of WoW's lifespan now, Is it really going to be that difficult for you experienced locks that are QQ'ing to go back to being one of the four turreted casters (Mages, Boomchickens, SP's, and now Locks again)? I have a real hard time understanding how its going to be worth quitting over to go back to a play style most Locks have been playing for years anyway. As a mage main, I can only dream of casting Fireball, AB, or Frostbolt on the move (and if we had it I certainly wouldn't complain, but our 90 talents need fixing first imo) but its not like I would magically forget how to play a turreted caster since I've been doing it for 5 years now. I guess I don't understand the visceral hate I'm seeing here and on the WoW forums for something that was part of the Lock toolkit for such a short time.

[Zagam 1,982]

You have a couple of things to consider here:

1) The playstyle was awesome. Many players re-rolled from their original main class into Warlocks because of their utility such as Healthstones and many have cited as casting while moving as being THE motivational tool to reroll. Guess what? It's fun. It's REALLY fun to feel so active while doing just as much damage as standing in one place. You feel safer and more deadly knowing you are less likely to be caught in bad stuff to finish your cast.

2) People don't like change, sometimes even when it's good. Historically, humans have always been resistant to anything that changes from the norm or what they are used to. KJC has gone through iterations where it slowly became more and more attractive. The KJC change made it incredibly attractive and most people embraced it. Now that people have played with it for a few months, removing it is CHANGE. The IMMEDIATE reaction can be seen on the WoW official forums. It wasn't quite as nasty here, but that's the atmosphere here...it's a little less hasty and backlash-filled.

KJC is a talent that has heard favorable reviews from Warlocks and negative, jealousy-driven comments from other classes, Mages in particular. The best part about all of it is people will ALWAYS find something to complain about. It goes back to where Warlocks have been tweaked with as long as I can remember. The good Warlocks adjust and find new ways to excel. The bad Warlocks who can't adjust go back to their Mages.

[Felbrew28 1]

The mages are afraid, they want to sabotage us so we don't overtake them in dps. But mages will always do the most damage on paper, so if they're not keeping up it's their fault.

[vaeevictiss 17]

I guess what I don't understand is given that Locks were turret casters for literally years prior to the introduction of KJC, and that KJC has been a part of Locks for what, maybe 15% of WoW's lifespan now, Is it really going to be that difficult for you experienced locks that are QQ'ing to go back to being one of the four turreted casters (Mages, Boomchickens, SP's, and now Locks again)? I have a real hard time understanding how its going to be worth quitting over to go back to a play style most Locks have been playing for years anyway. As a mage main, I can only dream of casting Fireball, AB, or Frostbolt on the move (and if we had it I certainly wouldn't complain, but our 90 talents need fixing first imo) but its not like I would magically forget how to play a turreted caster since I've been doing it for 5 years now. I guess I don't understand the visceral hate I'm seeing here and on the WoW forums for something that was part of the Lock toolkit for such a short time.

Its the fact that we did have it and how much it changed the playstyle. I have played this very same lock ever since vanilla. I stuck around thru the good and bad changes and always made it work. Back when i was not as casual as i am now, i was raiding a lot more and regardless of the nerf i always made locks look good.

The fact is that they gave it to us...regardless how short of a time we had it. It was that little bit of time that was literally a game changer. All i thought while running circles around a boss, casting and giggling like a school girl, was..."why have we not always had this?!" For the first time in my WoW time, i was truly satisfied with an ability...it just felt right...it was how a warlock should be.

Now they are taking it away, it will feel like a step back to vanilla again.

It is a big deal because throughout my time raiding through the expansions, and seeing the encounters before they were nerfed, there has never been a raid with as much movement required as ToT. Shadow priests are currently the only ones that cannot move and cast, but they have the damage to make up for it. If we loose this, without say, a DoT buff, we will fall behind quite a bit.

In everyone elses defense...while i feel that this ability made a warlock a warlock...come on...give it to all casters. We have all persevered through the expansions laying waste to legions of demons. We fought our way to the top of the Black Temple to kill (supposedly) a misaligned demon hunter. We stopped the summoning of a Demon Lord, We made the cold, treacherous climb of Icecrown Citadel to destroy a brave paladin who wanted to save his people, but lost his way and razed the planet with armies of undead soldiers. We even saved the very whole of Azeroth from certain undoing by a corrupted aspect...and you blizzard...are telling me that through all that...we never honed our skills to cast while moving? GTFO!

(plus if everyone could that would make the game, especially PVP, so much more fast paced).

Edited June 19, 2013 by vaeevictiss

[Grimsheeper 1]

That is just an asinine and knee jerk response (Felbrew28). I am in no way bitter about Warlocks having the talent, I think its a great talent and amazing for Affliction especially. I think it would be awesome for each caster class to have something equivalent, but since I don't I'll just continue to compete with our guild lock like we have for a long time. I just don't understand how this is so earth shattering that locks are quitting in droves when its only been around for a small time. You will be compensated/balanced for the loss, and you will compete with mages as you have every tier. I just don't get how the sky is falling.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Grimsheeper

[Zagam 1,982]

I just don't understand how this is so earth shattering that locks are quitting in droves when its only been around for a small time.

The real Warlocks are not quitting. Most of the FoTM Warlocks are going back to their main class. Warlocks will return to the least represented class like it's been. It's the fake Warlocks that have enjoyed playing a class that can move and cast ONLY because it can move and cast that are up in an outrage over such. Take a look at the official WoW forums. The majority of the "professional" complainers are people who only play LFR and have only done LFR this tier. If that doesn't spell re-roll to you, not sure it can be done any more clear.

To think just back a bit, remember when Fire got the mega nerf hammer and every Mage went Arcane? Or they threatened to re-roll? People are a whole lot of talk.

[Grimsheeper 1]

To think just back a bit, remember when Fire got the mega nerf hammer and every Mage went Arcane? Or they threatened to re-roll? People are a whole lot of talk.

LOL. Good point Zag. Yes I remember this nightmare very well, and yes me and others like me just gritted our teeth and went Arcane...until the removed Scorch Weaving...then we all went Frost for ToT until we got 40% crit. I notice that complaining on the forums, etc is usually a form of Catharsis for many. You complain, whine, moan, then you just move on and adapt while cursing Ghost Crawler under your breath for what he's done to your favorite class. Anyway, no animosity here for my dark arts brothers. I look forward to competing with you, as always. Cheers!

[Zagam 1,982]

None taken. We're always glad to have you guys along for the ride, if only for Timewarp ;)

[Curdic 0]

It is just the begining of the PTR, there are going to be a lot of changes, yes that lock ability being nerfed is bad. But so is a lot of the things they are doing, like making MM the only pvp spec for hunters, because they are making the silence shot now only for Marksmen. But ome good things are happening, like polearms being allowed to be duel weilded for fury warriors. :D

[Brown 14]

To think just back a bit, remember when Fire got the mega nerf hammer and every Mage went Arcane? Or they threatened to re-roll? People are a whole lot of talk.

I mostly complain (at least to guild in voice chat) because Ghostcrawler displays all the consistency of a monkey throwing darts at a board with random changes on it.

Meh, doesn't matter. The rotating nerf/buff train rolls on.

[Grimsheeper 1]

Well, it appears that with yesterday's retraction of the planned nerf to KJC we've all learned a valuable lesson as to the power of rivers of continuous QQ. Grats Locks. You actually convinced Ghost Crawler to back peddle on something! Frankly I'm impressed. The rest of us (meaning every other class that hasn't garnered 4 blue posts within a single week addressing a single talent tier) should learn a valuable lesson from this and flood the Forums with complaints, threats and yes...constructive feedback.

[JvChequer 43]

It's not about Stupid QQing, it's about give real reasons and strenght point how the lack of this talent would be the whole dps of affliction and destro.

[Grimsheeper 1]

It's not about Stupid QQing, it's about give real reasons and strenght point how the lack of this talent would be the whole dps of affliction and destro.

You can't honestly believe that 100% of the posts on KJC for this last week were filled with "strengths, real reasons and constructive feedback" can you? I'd say its something like 60-40 with 60% being threats to quit and complaining, while the real Warlocks (As Zag pointed out above) gave rational explanations and suggestions. I'm just saying, don't try and whitewash what actually happened now, because some of us have been following it from the start with real interest to see if you could get traction on a retraction (Zing!). As I said, I applaud you guys for getting something retracted. Now, with us mages staring at a complete destruction of Frost Mage PVP if the latest "fixes" go live (posted yesterday), its time for us to ramp up the noise and get 140 pages of forum posts. I guess we'll see if we can muster the same attention as you soon enough.

[Omaric 246]

You can't honestly believe that 100% of the posts on KJC for this last week were filled with "strengths, real reasons and constructive feedback" can you? I'd say its something like 60-40 with 60% being threats to quit and complaining, while the real Warlocks (As Zag pointed out above) gave rational explanations and suggestions. I'm just saying, don't try and whitewash what actually happened now, because some of us have been following it from the start with real interest to see if you could get traction on a retraction (Zing!). As I said, I applaud you guys for getting something retracted. Now, with us mages staring at a complete destruction of Frost Mage PVP if the latest "fixes" go live (posted yesterday), its time for us to ramp up the noise and get 140 pages of forum posts. I guess we'll see if we can muster the same attention as you soon enough.

Why are you here? Is your purpose to troll? I've never seen you post here until we started discussing the changes to our talents. Maybe the people on the WoW forums are quick to QQ, but over here we generally think it out and adapt. You don't need to come here and congratulate us for "successful QQ". Ugh, gross.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Omaric

[Kaboozey 16]

Is your purpose to troll?

Nailed it. As if mage QQ hasn't occured in the past. As if they aren't now QQing with changes that do not effect them in any way.¹² As if all three mage specs aren't on top of sims above every other spec/class.³ As if mages haven't been in that spot or nearly there every expansion.⁴⁵

References:

1) http://us.battle.net...c/9340954236#18

2) http://www.icy-veins...__60#entry26483

3) http://simulationcra.../Raid_T15H.html

4) http://simulationcra...id_T11_372.html

5) http://simulationcra.../Raid_T13H.html

Edited June 20, 2013 by Kaboozey

[JvChequer 43]

You can't honestly believe that 100% of the posts on KJC for this last week were filled with "strengths, real reasons and constructive feedback" can you? I'd say its something like 60-40 with 60% being threats to quit and complaining, while the real Warlocks (As Zag pointed out above) gave rational explanations and suggestions. I'm just saying, don't try and whitewash what actually happened now, because some of us have been following it from the start with real interest to see if you could get traction on a retraction (Zing!). As I said, I applaud you guys for getting something retracted. Now, with us mages staring at a complete destruction of Frost Mage PVP if the latest "fixes" go live (posted yesterday), its time for us to ramp up the noise and get 140 pages of forum posts. I guess we'll see if we can muster the same attention as you soon enough.

Poor mages, so burned by blizzard, such a low dps, patches and patches behind everyone in top meters and such useless and not-OP in PVP.

Your blink and tier15 talents are such useless for movement and scorch just dont worth be casted. Mage frost even can cast 32 instant ice lances.

Shame blizzard, mages need a rework and some atention, maybe a passive buff to give 5% crit or 7% haste solve it.

Sad story.