9th INNING WARLOCK CHANGES

[Omaric 246]

To keep Demo where it's at, Shadow Bolt and Soul Fire would need a 5% buff each...or buff Soul Fire or Shadow Bolt by 10%.  Likely won't see this.  Blizz doesn't test on the PTR...they just wait for real logs to come out, analyze them, then nuke specs.  Hunters low?  BUFF.  Brewmaster tanks OP?  NERF. 

 

Now that we've been smushed a bit, I expect Mages to get a smackdown, particularly Arcane with Nether Tempest.  They are the only remaining outlier.  They should enjoy their time...I think it's short lived.

 

Zagam no!  You're better than this.  The mage vs warlock debacle can stay at the WoW forums.

 

Also, can they please just delete the UVLS so I don't have to worry about it anymore?  That'd be great, thanks.

[Zagam 1,983]

The WoW forum discussions between Warlocks and Mages is like watching 6 year olds decide if a kickball was kicked fair or foul in a 1st grade recess session.  I went onto the Warlock forums last night before bed for 10 minutes and just shook my head at a majority of all those people.  The Mages who come in are just as stupid.  Everyone finds something to complain about without objectively looking at the big picture.  There is no debacle here...I'm just talking from a numbers perspective, not a 'fuck Mages' perspective because I have a Mage on my team and I enjoy his damage helping me slay the boss we're killing.  Not like I'm running into Arcane Mages standing in Rune of Power AB'ing me over and over in PvP.  Those guys would die so fast, it's not even funny.

 

Granted, I had a hissy fit.  I like Demo and don't like that I'll feel the need to play Affliction over Demo on Protectors and other fights designed like it.  T

[Meeloh 0]

Bah... I had just switched to Aff/Demo lol... Guess I better go back Aff/Destro

 

Hey Zagam... will you run a Flex group this week?

[Soulzar 42]

I'm glad they nerfed UVLS to be honest... I also think that they should buff Sbolt or ToC slightly.

 

Especially with the loss of 2pT15 and now much lower fury generation, buffing ToC to scale in some degree with haste would be nice....

[Omaric 246]

OK, this is seriously ridiculous.  What the fuck is Blizzard thinking?  Did they think we'd magically stop using UVLS after it dominated all last tier?  I don't mind having to change my playstyle, but pick a platform and roll with it Blizz.  You've stated *last tier* that you felt UVLS was exploit territory for Demo and you didn't do anything over all PTR.  Now week 3 into the next tier it's time to make some changes?  KAAAAAAAHHHHHNNNNNNNN!!!!!

[bangorme 0]

I've always played Afflic until I came back to WOW last year, then went Demo.  Someone mentioned earlier, and it's true, that to be a good lock in your guild you have to be willing to play the spec of the day because blizz plays with them all the time.  So, back to Afflic I go.  

[Scorp 5]

there is only one fitting response

I don't want to live on this planet anymore !

[Soulzar 42]

Its times like this that I wish Blizz would put in Tri-spec already.  Would allow me to stay proficient in all 3 specs instead of having one always lag behind in my skill cap because I'm never specced into it.  Especially for a Pure dps whos specs vary greatly 

 

I've always played Afflic until I came back to WOW last year, then went Demo.  Someone mentioned earlier, and it's true, that to be a good lock in your guild you have to be willing to play the spec of the day because blizz plays with them all the time.  So, back to Afflic I go.  

 

From my experience, and perhaps its more to do with the level at which I raid (Far from a min/max group) no other class changes specs between fights as frequently as Locks (me). I don't think our Warrior, Rogue, or Mage ever change specs....

[Omaric 246]

Its times like this that I wish Blizz would put in Tri-spec already.  Would allow me to stay proficient in all 3 specs instead of having one always lag behind in my skill cap because I'm never specced into it.  Especially for a Pure dps whos specs vary greatly 

 

 

From my experience, and perhaps its more to do with the level at which I raid (Far from a min/max group) no other class changes specs between fights as frequently as Locks (me). I don't think our Warrior, Rogue, or Mage ever change specs....

 

Now that you mention it I think you're right.  People swapping specs doesn't seem to be very common in my raid.  Mages are maybe the only other class that will occasionally swap in our raid, but they're generally pretty spec loyal as well.  I'll swap specs/talents on a fight by fight basis.  Hell I'll even swap specs to help clear trash faster.

[Strife 6]

I hate hate hate destro, stop forcing me to play a boring spec by making dumb nerfs to demo which is way more interactive and challenging imho  ~_~

 

UVLS nerf? Fine, old tier trinket blah blah.

 

WTF at imp nerf which is probably an overall dps nerf of 10%+ when you take into account UVLS as well.

[mediocregatsby 18]

(cross posted from mmo-champ)

i just ran two flex raids as demo with a +2/2 HTF UVLS, here's what i've found:
- UVLS still procs on EVERY pull like clockwork
- lowest uptime: 4.1%, best uptime: 5.5%
- my last week normal iron juggernaut kill was 267k DPS. today's flex raid iron juggernaut kill was 247k DPS but sadly i forgot to flask/pot and it's only flex so the comparison is weak (pretty sure we lusted at a retarded time)

i'm pretty afraid i just got lucky in those flex raids and that the law of averages will pull my dps down further, but for the time being, it seems the rumors of demo's demise are greatly exaggerated. it's still a competitive spec but it won't be miles ahead of everyone else.

i will continue running flex raids and LFRs until my guild's run tonight to keep getting a feel for it. i think i will run demo/aff for the guild raid, with itemization for affliction.

Edited September 24, 2013 by mediocregatsby

[Deathly 0]

HI,

 

Could someone help me? I simmed my destro lock tonight Decayn and acccording to SImCraft my stat priority was haste, crit, mastery. Yet when I look at Zagams armory and use reforgelite addon it is clear they are both reforging with mastery as the highest stat. Which is right for me? I first reforged according to the SImCraft tonight for Haste, Crit them Mastery and changed it back to Mastery.. not sure which is right.

 

thanks for your help!

 

Best

 

D

[JvChequer 43]

HI,

 

Could someone help me? I simmed my destro lock tonight Decayn and acccording to SImCraft my stat priority was haste, crit, mastery. Yet when I look at Zagams armory and use reforgelite addon it is clear they are both reforging with mastery as the highest stat. Which is right for me? I first reforged according to the SImCraft tonight for Haste, Crit them Mastery and changed it back to Mastery.. not sure which is right.

 

thanks for your help!

 

Best

 

D

 

 

For AOE, where's Destro shines, reforge into:

 

Mastery > crit > haste

[Zagam 1,983]

I run a Flex group every Sunday.  We've one shot every boss with 50% of the group not knowing the fights.  Unfortunately, I don't think I have any roster spots open.  I keep the same team and keep teaching them new fights. 

 

http://openraid.us/events/view/128819 <-- Link to my event.  I post a new one each Sunday at 3p Eastern.  Only week I won't be doing this is weekend of Blizzcon.

[Zagam 1,983]

HI,

 

Could someone help me? I simmed my destro lock tonight Decayn and acccording to SImCraft my stat priority was haste, crit, mastery. Yet when I look at Zagams armory and use reforgelite addon it is clear they are both reforging with mastery as the highest stat. Which is right for me? I first reforged according to the SImCraft tonight for Haste, Crit them Mastery and changed it back to Mastery.. not sure which is right.

 

thanks for your help!

 

Best

 

D

Don't copy my profile.  It's crafted for Bloodlust, Tempus Repit, Berserking, and Dark Soul breakpoints.  Mastery loads are specificed because I play Destro on any fight where Mastery would be best.  For Affliction, my weird-looking Haste value actually has meaning when we pull on a fight with Bloodlust.  It's best that I don't get into that one lol

[Omaric 246]

 

What buffs are you giving Demo to compensate the drastic nerfs? Affliction is way higher, but left unchanged?

There were Affliction nerfs too: UVLS and Haunt. (Source)

 

I don't understand the UVLS nerf, sure it was a decent trinket, but 40% is like using a cannon to kill an ant.

The alternative was just nerfing warlock DPS by more, which didn't feel fair to those not using the trinket. (Source)

Can you please figure out how to balance warlock pve dmg.Once again they are are too far ahead. Or should we just accept it?

We are concerned it's too high, but we are trying to figure out how much of it is just the UVLS trinket. (Source)

 

Hold onto your butts, we may be in for further nerfs.  Honestly I wouldn't be surprised at all if we were.

[Zagam 1,983]

If anything, they'll revert the Destro buffs, take Haunt down more, or just reduce all things by 5-10% like they did with Brewmasters.  It's whatever anymore...Warlocks aren't Flavor of the Month...they're Flavor of the Week because of an inability to balance and do them correctly despite devoting an entire expansion to reworking them.

[Strife 6]

Hold onto your butts, we may be in for further nerfs.  Honestly I wouldn't be surprised at all if we were.

 

After reading through the tweets, how do those reference further nerfs?

 

The UVLS tweet is from Sep. 23rd and was the one everyone was referencing a day before the hotfix nerfs that already nerfed UVLS and demo/aff.

 

The 2 newer tweets just sound like Warlocks who are looking for compensation on Demo for the UVLS nerf and GC explaining they already nerfed Aff as well and the reason why they nerfed UVLS instead of nerfing the base class (although they nerfed the base class as well, especially in Demo's case lol).

 

Not saying Aff won't get nerfed further as much as I hope it doesn't, but not sure how those tweets actually foreshadow any of it other then people complaining demo got too heavy nerfs compared to Aff without much response from GC.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Strife

[Omaric 246]

 

We are concerned it's too high

 

Did you miss that part?  :P  They're still watching numbers very closely after those last nerfs, and I don't think they're going to think it was enough.

 

Also, the fact that we're still dominating meters should be a good enough tip off.

[Strife 6]

Did you miss that part?    They're still watching numbers very closely after those last nerfs, and I don't think they're going to think it was enough.

 

Also, the fact that we're still dominating meters should be a good enough tip off.

 

Again that "concerned we are too high" is from a Sept. 23rd tweet that came before the hotfix which nerfed UVLS, Imps, and Haunt. It was referenced on forums (thought I read it on Icy-Veins, but it was definately discussed on MMO-Champ warlock forums) the day before the hotfixes were announced last week where people we're saying UVLS was about to get nerfed.

 

The two other tweets are recent which don't reference anything by GC regarding futher nerfs other then explaining why they had to nerf UVLS and that Aff already got nerfed with Demo as well.

 

I agree that based on Aff meters there is potential for futher nerfs, I'm just saying those tweets aren't really proof of anything and the main tweet your referencing regarding "too high" and "how much is UVLS" is 8 days old and before the set of hotfix nerfs that already took place, so that tweet is a little misleading and people shouldn't be getting scared because of the tweets you referenced.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Strife

[Zilthy 36]

Did you miss that part?    They're still watching numbers very closely after those last nerfs, and I don't think they're going to think it was enough.

 

Also, the fact that we're still dominating meters should be a good enough tip off.

 

I believe that was stated before the nerfs went in with the hotfix, so I would not predict new nerfs coming in from that statement.  Of course, new nerfs could come in for other reasons.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Zilthy

[Omaric 246]

Again that "concerned we are too high" is from a Sept. 23rd tweet that came before the hotfix which nerfed UVLS, Imps, and Haunt. It was referenced on forums (thought I read it on Icy-Veins, but it was definately discussed on MMO-Champ warlock forums) the day before the hotfixes were announced last week where people we're saying UVLS was about to get nerfed.

 

I'm fully aware *when* this was said.  I'm saying that they are concerned about our DPS.  It was only a week ago.  Now that the hotfix is live they're eyeballing it even closer.  I'm not stating as fact that nerfs are incoming, but I see it highly likely that it will happen again.

 

Focus less on when it was said (which wasn't that long ago), and more on what they're paying attention to and what our current damage is (it's high).

[Zilthy 36]

I'm fully aware *when* this was said.  I'm saying that they are concerned about our DPS.  It was only a week ago.  Now that the hotfix is live they're eyeballing it even closer.  I'm not stating as fact that nerfs are incoming, but I see it highly likely that it will happen again.

 

Focus less on when it was said (which wasn't that long ago), and more on what they're paying attention to and what our current damage is (it's high).

 

Gotcha, that does make sense.

[Strife 6]

I'm fully aware *when* this was said.  I'm saying that they are concerned about our DPS.  It was only a week ago.  Now that the hotfix is live they're eyeballing it even closer.  I'm not stating as fact that nerfs are incoming, but I see it highly likely that it will happen again.

 

Focus less on when it was said (which wasn't that long ago), and more on what they're paying attention to and what our current damage is (it's high).

 

To be fair, demo damage was insane all of ToT and nothing ever happened, and I'm pretty sure they are paying attention to all classes most of the time, other classes got nerfs and buffs last week as well. I was focusing on what was said because generally when someone says watch out there could be more nerfs and then links tweets, it's because of something that was recently referenced in a tweet. So I wanted to clarify that nothing in those tweets referenced further nerfs and the original 8 day old tweet already had nerfs resulting from that tweet, it's not like it's a tweet that happened today that said "oh no, we need to nerf Warlock way more, they are still doing too much damage". From my standpoint I see a GC tweet about nerfs, nerfs happening in a hotfix, then GC actually defending Aff saying they already got nerfed in the hotfix. Now they very well could rebuff demo, nerf aff more, etc. in further hotfixes, but this has been talked about the past week since the hotfix and isn't exactly breaking news. Not sure how you can say don't focus on when it was said when nerfs already resulted after that comment.

 

Just saying, that's my viewpoint from the exchange and timeline, I mean any class that is topping the charts should always be wary of nerfs, just like Fire Mage, BM, and Demo got nerfed from 5.3 -> 5.4.

 

Obviously right now Aff is so good on like half of the fights is because of all the adds for SS empowered dots and Shard regen. So it's going to be interesting what happens, because the Haunt nerf really didn't have as big of an impact to fights like Protectors/Dark Shaman/Nazgrim type fights, and single target we're not really OP. At this point our niche really is multi-target fights, and of course SoO has plenty of that. Not sure what they can really do without destroying our single target without a class rework, such as the case with what just happened to Demo.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Strife

[Omaric 246]

The only reason I linked the tweets was because it shows that they're actively looking at us.  This wasn't really brought up a lot last tier.  The fact that they've been constantly tweaking us since the last patch is a pretty good indication.  We can keep arguing about when tweets were said or the very relevance of them, but it doesn't take away from the fact that we're currently OP and Blizz is watching us now.  As an aside though, remember when they nerfed Doom and Corruption by 20% in ToT because Demo was destroying meters so hard they had to be downloaded again after each fight?

 

I don't want to be nerfed just as much as the next person, but let's be realistic.