Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Stan

Patch 7.2.5 - Upcoming Mythic Keystone Changes

Recommended Posts

22482-legion-previews-class-halls-valsha

Blizzard talked about changes to Mythic+ Keystones in Patch 7.2.5. The depletion mechanism will be removed. If you don't finish the dungeon in time, you'll get a a Keystone for a random dungeon that's 1 level lower than the one you used. 

Completing the run within the set time frame has the same effect as in 7.2. You get a Keystone that's 1-3 levels higher than the used one. Rewards are also on their radar, because players used lower Keystone runs to get best rewards. Finishing a Keystone will reward two items and an AP token. If you beat the timer (regardless of how quickly), the final chests will give you a third item reward.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

We’ve been thrilled to see how positively players have responded to Mythic Keystone dungeons since Legion’s release. However, there are a couple areas in which our original design for the system hasn’t quite matched up with how things have worked out in practice. In an upcoming 7.2.5 PTR build, we’re going to try out a couple of changes to how Keystone runs work.

The first big change is that we’re getting rid of the depletion mechanic. We’d originally imagined that getting ahold of a Keystone would be more of a barrier than it is, but in reality, there are so many players participating that it’s generally not too difficult to find someone with a Keystone you’d like to run. In that environment, depleting a Keystone is more of an annoyance than anything else – especially when it happens for reasons outside of your control (such as a player disconnecting).

Instead, we’re going to try the following:
  • Completing the run on time will have the same results it currently does in 7.2: you’ll get a new Keystone for a random dungeon that’s 1-3 levels higher than the one you just completed, based on how quickly you finished.
  • If you complete the dungeon but don’t make the timer, you’ll get a Keystone for a random dungeon that’s 1 level lower than the one you just used.
  • If you don’t complete the dungeon at all, you’ll have a Keystone for the same dungeon that’s one level lower than the one you just used.

The other thing we’re looking to change is the way that rewards are given at the end of a run. Currently, when you complete a run that upgrades your Keystone by 2 or 3 levels, you’re also given a 2nd or 3rd chest. This is because, when we believed that Keystones would be rare, we didn’t want you to miss out on any of the loot you might have collected from the runs you were “skipping.”

However, because of this, players tend to look for lower-level Keystones that they can easily stomp through, instead of higher-level Keystones that are appropriately challenging for their gear and skill. That, in turn, affects who they’re willing to invite. AOE damage output is preferred over everything else, because the only concern is how quickly you can clear through easy trash packs. And gear requirements tend to outpace what actually drops: if you could find upgrades in a Mythic 6, you’ll have a hard time finding a group, because the Mythic 6 groups are full of players who are capable of clearing 10+ and are just looking for an easy 3-chest.

With that in mind, here’s the changes we’re planning to test:
  • You no longer receive additional chests at the end of a run for completing it quickly.
  • When you finish a Mythic+ dungeon, the chest at the end will contain two items and an appropriate amount of Artifact Power.
  • If you beat the timer, regardless of how quickly, there will be a third item in the chest.
  • Keystones can still upgrade by 2 or 3 steps, so you can quickly get to a difficulty level appropriate for you.


Our overall goal with these changes is to incentivize groups to take on dungeons where they know they’re likely to see upgrades, instead of preferring keys that are far too easy for them. Once the Tomb of Sargeras raid is available on Mythic difficulty, we’ll also increase the maximum rewards from Mythic Keystone runs to level 15.

To clarify: with these changes, the chest at the end of each Mythic+ run would contain a total of 3 items (2 if you don't beat the timer). That's split across the group, not per-person. 

So yes, it's fewer total items than a 3-chest finish in 7.2. However, it's an increase in items for players doing 1-chest clears at an appropriate difficulty level. This is also why I mentioned that the difficulty cap for M+ will be increasing to 15 once Tomb opens on Mythic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh, I guess that's the end of me getting my fithly casual arse carried in higher(ish) keystones by premades looking for openers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, that will lead in the following behavior: As long as ToS isn't out, we will run +10 keystones because of max. ilvl cap. It's easy to farm gear because you will get 3 items. Beside the more AP from higher keys (dungeon chest and weekly), there is no reason to run them. So, this is what i will be doing:

- Run 1 higher key to get as much as possible AP from weekly chest

- Run +10 keys. Usually they will be in time, often with +3 upgrades. If i dont like the dungeon i get, i just letting deplete the key to lower the difficulty till +10. Run the key and repeate.

It's not that i'm not capable of doing a +13 key in a dungeon i dont like....i just make it easier and the reward will stay the same. After ToS is released, the new cap will be +15 instead of +10.

What do you think about that bevior, it's really the way how it should work?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in the end, everyone will find the easiest/quickest way to farm AP/gear. Whichever system you choose, there is always an optimal way to balance effort/gain. That will be the equilibrium on which people play. Whether it is running lower lvl keys with overgeared to get 3 chests, or +10keys while being overgeared to get 1 chest with 3 items.

Only difference is there is no longer a true incentive to run a dungeon within the three chest time limit. But as, people still will want to invest as little time as possible, they will still be inviting overgeared people. Not because they need upgrades but because the want to reduce risks.

However I do think people looking for gear upgrades will appreciate this new system more. As it rewards them just as much (gearwise) for finishing just intime as it would finishing it within 3chest time.

Edited by AartS
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interest to see how these changes affect people. Keystones no longer depleting is great, imo, that way you are not penalized for disconnections or someone having an off day.

The loot changes are just meh, I personally wasn't doing Keystones for the loot all I want is the AP. I guess if you had really great Titanforging luck then you could gear up really quick by running a group to maximize your loot. Then again why does that matter to Blizzard, oh wait because they think having a long drawn out gearing process is a good idea just like the gating of content.

If someone wants to farm the crap out of something let them don't penalize the rest of the players because of it. Me personally I want all the quests available the moment the patch hits that way I can make my way through it at a normal pace instead of 1 quest chain a week which is bloody stupid especially when it was 1 f'n quest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Shirushi said:

Interest to see how these changes affect people. Keystones no longer depleting is great, imo, that way you are not penalized for disconnections or someone having an off day.

The loot changes are just meh, I personally wasn't doing Keystones for the loot all I want is the AP. I guess if you had really great Titanforging luck then you could gear up really quick by running a group to maximize your loot. Then again why does that matter to Blizzard, oh wait because they think having a long drawn out gearing process is a good idea just like the gating of content.

If someone wants to farm the crap out of something let them don't penalize the rest of the players because of it. Me personally I want all the quests available the moment the patch hits that way I can make my way through it at a normal pace instead of 1 quest chain a week which is bloody stupid especially when it was 1 f'n quest.

As @Allseye said. I think players will intentionally downgrade keystones. What's the point of doing 15+ when rewards are the same? The loot nerf isn't good either. Now you'll have to spend twice as much time (talking about 3-chesting ) to get the same rewards as you would in 7.2. No more carries.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard

However, because of this, players tend to look for lower-level Keystones that they can easily stomp through, instead of higher-level Keystones that are appropriately challenging for their gear and skill. That, in turn, affects who they’re willing to invite. AOE damage output is preferred over everything else, because the only concern is how quickly you can clear through easy trash packs. And gear requirements tend to outpace what actually drops: if you could find upgrades in a Mythic 6, you’ll have a hard time finding a group, because the Mythic 6 groups are full of players who are capable of clearing 10+ and are just looking for an easy 3-chest.

Our overall goal with these changes is to incentivize groups to take on dungeons where they know they’re likely to see upgrades, instead of preferring keys that are far too easy for them

1) So how about removing item levels or Titanforging? Let's assume you find two players in Group Finder. The first one with an ilvl of 880, the second one has 910. Who will you invite to increase the chance to succeed in your run? Pretty self-explanatory.

I get what they're trying to accomplish with this change; the real problem is when you're a lower ilvl player searching for a +5 keystone, ilvl requirements may be absurd, but it doesn't happen all the time and I don't think it will solve the problem of inviting overgeared people to secure 3-chesting/loot.

2) Of course AoE is and will be preferred and this change will have exactly NO impact and besides that what else is the point than stomp through Mythic+ when it is a TIMED EVENT??

3) Why are they forcing players to play the game the way they want? It seems anything that deviates from a certain pattern of "desired gameplay" gets nerfed to the ground (secondary stat, tweaks, Nethershards, Maw AP Farming just to name a few).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a discussion going on MMO-Champion and i read some intresting statements from another point of view. As an exemple, there is a player who states that he's just interested in a high mythic + score (wowprogress). With this changes, it makes it more difficult to get high scores because if a key depletes you can't do the same difficulty again. This will lead in a higher challenge which (he states) hasn't to be a bad thing because every player has the same condition.

Further i read an idea to improve the chance for war- and titanforged items with higher difficulty (> 10). This would probably make players to spend more time in appropriate keystone-levels. So if there would be an improvement of (lets say) 2% per ilvl, there would be a 20% higher chance for a lvl 20 keystone. This would definitely pull me frequently in higher mythic +.

In my opinion blizzard should try to make higher keys much more attractiv rather than trying to implement changes which doesn't seem to solve the issues.

Edited by Allseye
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this part disturbing:

"To clarify: with these changes, the chest at the end of each Mythic+ run would contain a total of 3 items (2 if you don't beat the timer). That's split across the group, not per-person. "

One of the best things about the current system is the chests are YOUR chests and you don't have to wrestle with strangers to get gear. This might end up making it actually harder to get a Mythic+ group via the group finder.

Everything else I was fine with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Corvae said:

I found this part disturbing:

"To clarify: with these changes, the chest at the end of each Mythic+ run would contain a total of 3 items (2 if you don't beat the timer). That's split across the group, not per-person. "

One of the best things about the current system is the chests are YOUR chests and you don't have to wrestle with strangers to get gear. This might end up making it actually harder to get a Mythic+ group via the group finder.

Everything else I was fine with. 

I think there are many people who don't know how the loot-mechanic works today in mythic +. Today, if you do a 3 chest, there are 6 items in total, 2 items per chest. You can check this yourself: do a mythic+ and count how many items are looted at the end. There is NO randomness of the amount of items looted, it's just a randomness how many items are looted by YOU.

As far as i understand, this behavior wont change. They just change the amount of items...basically they nerf it from 6 to 3 items (compared to a 3 chest run today). What does that mean? - It isnt anymore that interesting to do mythic+ as fast as possible, because you just earn 1 item more. 

I think blizzard moves the problem from one side to another. They just make higher AND lower keys less interesting. Ok, we wont run lower keys anymore because we can't get 6 items with brain-afk gaming, we run now just exact that keylvl we need for highest ilvl. Problem solved? - Partially yes, but instead of punishing low-geared players, they punish now the medium/higher geared. Hence, it's a bad solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the solution for such issues has always been dungeons award difficulty-appropriate amounts of currency and a weekly dungeon cap. This gives Blizzard a granular way to control the speed at which players get loot, and makes players try and do the most difficult content they can, as opposed to the fastest.

Though, WoW wouldn't be WoW without the loot roulette.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/6/2017 at 4:15 PM, Oxygen said:

Though, WoW wouldn't be WoW without the loot roulette.

Just as with Diablo 3, RNG = time invested = more subscription time. Doubt this will ever change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym
      Power Infusion has recently been a hot topic in the community, with the logs being heavily affected by it, as many non-Priest specs are getting a lot of buffs during fights to boost their overall DPS. There's even some drama surrounding who gets the buff, and Shadow Priests not wanting to give it away, which we've recently talked about, but today there's at least a solution to the logs part of the issue.
      Warcraft Logs have added markers for Power Infusion and Innervate, so you can now see not only if a player received one of these buffs during a fight, but also how many! 

      Warcraft Logs creator Kihra explains in detail:
      This should make it a lot easier to track individual player performances and for players to improve through the logs, as it is now clearer whether someone is just outdpsing/outhealing you because they're playing better, or if they just got a bunch of external buffs!
    • By Starym
      The half orc half ogre Mok'Nathal finally get some love, as Lonely Road pictures made some concepts for the race! Rexxar's kind don't get much attention in WoW, but they will be featured in an upcoming cinematic by Lonely Road and so they got some pretty cool models ready!
      One of the characters above is having way too much fun and might just be too cool for Wow. Plenty of players would have preferred this particular race to the slightly more generic mag'har we actually got (although straight-backs are always welcome), so we can hopefully see more of them in the future and give those tauren some size competition!
      Some great work by Lonely Road!
    • By Starym
      While we now know that the Archon survives the events of the 9.1 patch cinematic, the scene was somewhat reminiscent of something we've seen around the holidays last year, as the Archon was killed during a regular Spires of Ascension run.
      In the patch 9.1 cinematic we see the Jailer/Anduin stab Kyrestia in the chest and take out her "key", but we also see her moving afterwards, and Blizzard confirmed that she survives the attack. However, when she was taken down at the end of last year in the dungeon, she actually died and had a special text pop-up that said "As the Archon perishes, all life in the zone is wiped out!", so it's probably for the best that she survived the Jailer's attack. Zovaal and Anduin didn't/couldn't take her down, but a regular Doomguard apparently has no problems:
      The kicker here is that she respawned after her death and one of the party members commented on it, basically predicting what will happen in patch 9.1:
      The death animation itself doesn't seem relevant, as we won't get to see the cinematic events in-game directly, but her holding her side is. So it's quite likely we'll be seeing that particular character animation of the Archon, spearless and injured, when we go to her after the events of the 9.1 cinematic! We'll see whether this will be just a special thing for Kyrian Covenant members or (more likely) we'll all get to see and talk to her after what happens, and it'll be really interesting to see if she'll be using the same animation as above.
      In terms of what actually happened in the "kill" above, it was another manifestation of the already seen bug where a Warlock pet goes a little crazy, being both hostile and friendly at the same time and gaining some serious power. The fact it went on to actually attack and eventually take down the friendly NPC was new, however, and we haven't seen any reports of it happening since.
    • By Staff
      The Starting Zone Podcast talked to Jeremy Feasel and Frank Kowalkowski, and we learned that they plan on adding 40 more Renown levels in Chains of Domination. Will flying be heavily time-gated?
      Currently, on live servers, the maximum Renown your character can earn is 40. Shadowlands Pathfinder is coming in 9.1, and flying in Shadowlands should be easier to unlock than in previous expansions because it's coming in the first content patch of the expansion, and the achievement isn't gated behind reputation grinds. But how long will it take to unlock flying when the patch hits live servers?
      Blizzard clarified that you would only need to finish the Covenant Campaign to unlock flying a while ago, but at the same time, they are adding 40 more Renown levels in 9.1, bringing the cap to 80.
      With 3 (or 2 in later phases) Renown levels per week, here's how long it takes to unlock Renown 40 on live servers:

      Shadowlands Release Week: Renown level 3; Week of December 1: Renown level 6; Week of December 8: Renown level 9; Week of December 15: Renown level 12; Week of December 22: Renown level 15; Week of December 29: Renown level 18; Week of January 5: Renown level 21; Week of January 12: Renown level 24; Week of January 19: Renown level 26; Week of January 26: Renown level 28; Week of February 2: Renown level 30; Week of February 9: Renown level 32; Week of February 16: Renown level 34; Week of February 23: Renown level 36; Week of March 2: Renown level 38; Week of March 9: Renown level 40. The Covenant story's new portions will likely be unlocked at certain Renown levels (40+), so we expect the Pathfinder to be time-gated. How heavy the time-gating will be remains unknown for now.
      You can listen to the interview below. It starts at around 56:22.

    • By Stan
      Finally, we close our 9.0.5 class changes recap with Warlocks!
      Baseline
      Curse of Tongues - Forces the target to speak in Demonic, increasing the casting time of all spells by 30% for 30 60 sec. Demonology
      Call Dreadstalkers attack power increased by 10%, and Dreadbite and Dreadlash damage increased by 10%. Anima Powers
      Pact of Infernal Intimacy - Your summoned demons gain 100% health and damage immediately, and every time you ascend a floor, up to a maximum of 500%. This bonus is lost when the demon dies or is dismissed. PvP Talents
      Demon Armor - Protects the caster, increasing maximum health by 5% and increases armor by 120% 160%.  Death Knight  Mage  Rogue Death Knight 9.0.5 Class Changes
      Mage 9.0.5 Class Changes
      Rogue 9.0.5 Class Changes
       Demon Hunter  Monk  Shaman Demon Hunter 9.0.5 Class Changes
      Monk 9.0.5 Class Changes
      Shaman 9.0.5 Class Changes
       Druid  Paladin  Warlock Druid 9.0.5 Class Changes
      Paladin 9.0.5 Class Changes
      Warlock 9.0.5 Class Changes
       Hunter  Priest  Warrior Hunter 9.0.5 Class Changes
      Priest 9.0.5 Class Changes
      Warrior 9.0.5 Class Changes
×
×
  • Create New...