Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Stan

Patch 7.3: Upcoming Elemental Shaman Changes & Monks

Recommended Posts

AbU5AOy.jpg

Elemental Shamans will receive changes in a future 7.3 PTR build next week and Windwalker Monk discussion about scaling continues.

Elemental Shaman Changes

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

Next PTR will have a small set of Elemental changes meant to focus on a couple specific problems.

Mastery capping


Some of the power of mastery is shifted from proc rate into damage. The nerfs to Totem MasteryTotem Mastery and Elemental BlastElemental Blast don't require talent rebalancing, since they are minor and those are talents are already generally favored. The slight total DPS loss from those changes is counteracted in the baseline spec. With both talents, the mastery cap (with all these changes) would increase from 10400 rating to 15067.

Chain Lightning dominating Earthquake

Chain LightningChain Lightning is so strong that Earthquake is often not attractive to cast. There are also secondary issues such as the importance of Lightning Rod procs and resource overflow in AoE.

Damage is shifted from Chain LightningChain Lightning into EarthquakeEarthquake, and EarthquakeEarthquake is further increased to account for generating less Maelstrom (which helps the overflow issues, including on Static OverloadStatic Overload procs). The Earth ShockEarth Shock buff helps stave off the potential for Earthquake to get too close to it again, and a buff to Earth ShockEarth Shock was pretty reasonable generally.

Again, the goal is to address these issues in a relatively contained way. 7.3 is generally light on class changes, but we wanted to try to get at these known problems. As always, open to feedback on any complications that these look like they might introduce.

--If Elemental BlastElemental Blast is actually behind after the small nerf, it should be relatively easy to correct by buffing its own damage. That said, the current set bonus pushes Primal ElementalistPrimal Elementalist (and that sort of thing is generally acceptable for a tier), which means it's unsurprising if it's slightly ahead on its row for right now.


--We agree EarthquakeEarthquake should be more of a "finisher" out of the two, and this set of changes is trying to go in that direction. It should at least be used consistently in its intended role. It sounds a little odd that changing one spell's damage 45% relative to the other (plus the Maelstrom change) doesn't at all change the number of targets at which you'd use EarthquakeEarthquake, but we're happy to keep looking at any more detailed discussion of why that would be the case.

--The Maelstrom change would be a pacing change, but I think there are some advantages if we keep it and instead put value into buffing EarthquakeEarthquake (further than this if needed). It helps the above discussion of EarthquakeEarthquake actually being worth enough to stand out. The current version where, on average, each Chain LightningChain Lightning pays for more than one EarthquakeEarthquake is a pretty weird builder/spender relationship--and is part of the answer to your question of why EarthquakeEarthquake isn't stronger. Also, Maelstrom overflow is a significant issue currently. In your example of Static OverloadStatic Overload, it currently overflows in literally every case (on 5 targets). Pulling back on that and giving EarthquakeEarthquake  much higher value cuts down on resource waste while making it more valuable when you spend it.

If the main problem is that the EarthquakeEarthquake buff here isn't enough to accomplish the goals as described, that's something we can review further (and of course welcome any further input on that question).

Windwalker Monks Scaling

The concerns were previously raised during the reddit AMA.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

I don't know if there's a better thread where this is being discussed, but this thread seems closely related to the work done in the post.

Restating something I'd already said to the author--stat scaling is a massively complicated problem, and basically any rigorous knowledge fed in about it is a helpful addition. The main impediment to discussion on such a large dataset being offered as feedback is having to go through the whole methodology--enough to be sure we're all on the same page as to exactly what it's showing. I expect something as ambitious as "make a chart of all stats for all DPS specs at once" is likely to wind up as a project of perpetual refinement rather than something you can just "do" one day.

Which is all to say: basically all I can do is start with scattered questions/comments as I go through, rather than any kind of grand conclusion.

----

The best chart to spent most time on is probably the "% DPS gained per 475 stats" one.
--Versatility clocks in at 1.00% (+/- 0.01) on nearly all specs. Does that mean that the profiles being used have 0 Versatility?
--More broadly, what "current" stats are being used to generate the weights? As explained above, that affects how stats look relative to each other when viewed as a % of total DPS. If the profiles aren't constructed in a uniform way, some might have more lopsided stat distributions than others.
--Given how few things remain that are left out of Versatility, it might be cleanest to bring them all in at this point. No promise yet.
--For specs that are significantly above 1.00%, are they double-dipping Versatility or is that a simulation artifact?

"I didn’t include Weapon DPS in the averages as there was no easy way to do so and be fair to all specs. If you come up with a way that works, let me know."
--I believe the correct way is to make a weighted sum of Primary and WDPS based on whatever ratio they exist at currently on typical gear (similar to the advice I gave for Stamina).
--The variation in primary stats is a bit curious--looking at casters, where there's no WDPS complication. If, on a caster, all DPS other than trinkets is proportional to Int, the value of Int on all of them should be nearly identical (again after correcting for special cases such as the portion of Demonology damage that scales with Stam). Maybe what I'm saying is: the variation in Int's value seems like a sort of "control"--one way of getting insight into the magnitude of systematic error in the model.
--Trinkets also throw a minor wrench in the works if they're not treated uniformly in the comparison. It seems like you'd have to either avoid RPPM-damage-proc trinkets on everybody (those don't scale with primary), or add another factor representing trinket ilvl and fold it into primary just as with Stam and WDPS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is fine.

Everything is fine.

*burns with the rest of the house and melts away*

Edited by Suoson
add more meme
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did a good job with the mastery capping issue, lowers the value of mastery a bit but that's not awful... but the rest...

Elemental shamans- Earthquake isn't strong enough! Blizz- Did someone say chain lightning was too strong? ES- No...we're casting CL because of how EQ hits like a noodle and adds can move out of it. Blizz- EQ not good enough, make the builder worse! ES-.....Blizz why

Our ST and cleave already is middling, that seems like a far more urgent issue. Also redesign static overload, that's the issue with maelstrom capping, not that CL generates too much, the 4 maelstrom chain lightning felt bad when we had it before, I hope they revert that change. Kinda missed the mark here, I hope they do another pass on elemental before live, they probably will. 

Edited by Rag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They just keep on juggling with these numbers for EQ and ES. I mentioned this in the other thread as well a month or two back. They just can't get it done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was so happy when I read the first bit.

Why oh why did you have to ruin it? Single target is the weakness. AoE fights is where we shine. Why do you have to take that tiny bit of "yeah, actually, let's bring an elemental shaman" away from us? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/07/2017 at 4:48 PM, Yridaa said:

They just keep on juggling with these numbers for EQ and ES. I mentioned this in the other thread as well a month or two back. They just can't get it done.

I remember the thread! With suggestions about what they could do to fix it, like having damage of one dependent on the other etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Prophet001 said:

lol that screenshot

 

"This is fine."

Sometimes you just have to embrace it as it burns around you :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Staff
      Blizzard responded to some unclear issues around the Slayer Hero Talent tree, clarifying Bladestorm-related issues. You can check out the Slayer Hero talent tree here. 
      Slayer (Source)
      Hello. We’d like to answer a couple of questions we’ve seen for Slayer:
      The brief Bladestorm from Frenetic Flurry will fit in the GCD from the ability that triggered it, the intent is that it should not impact your rotation. The ability to use Pummel and Storm Bolt while Bladestorming applies during all Bladestorms, not just the one triggered from Frenetic Flurry.
      Likewise, all Bladestorm damage events will trigger Overwhelming Blades, including Frenetic Flurry and the additional ticks from Imminent Demise.
      Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!
    • By Stan
      In a Media & Society class, the professor decided to show their students the iconic Leeroy Jenkins video, which is nearing its 19th anniversary on May 11.
      A Reddit user, MineChris395, shared an interesting story about how their professor used the video to illustrate the growing influence of video games and their emergence as a form of viral media.
      The professor took the opportunity to explain how video gaming aligns with historical media trends, emphasizing the vast market gaming occupies today and its potential future growth.
      You can watch the video below in glorious 420p.
      The class was engaging and filled with laughter, as students enjoyed both the humor of the video and the insightful discussion on the impact of gaming in the media landscape, according to the OP.
      Source: Reddit
    • By Stan
      Dragonflight Season 4 is set to launch in just a few weeks, and we're checking out the rewards that will be removed when it kicks off. 
      Season 4 is just a few weeks away, and although Blizzard hasn't set a concrete release date for the newest Dragonflight season yet, there are certain achievements and rewards that will vanish once it kicks off. Let's take a closer look!
      Mythic+ Category
      Dragonflight Keystone Master: Season Three
      First, the Season 3 KSM achievement that requires players to obtain a Mythic+ Rating of at least 2,000 is going away, and with it, players will no longer be able to earn Verdant Armoredon.

      Dragonflight Keystone Hero: Season Three
      While this achievement does not come with any notable rewards, you can no longer earn it come Season 4.
      Mythic Dungeon Portals
      With Season 4, the dungeon rotation is getting a shake-up, meaning some dungeon teleports will become unattainable, unless they make a comeback in a later season. To secure these teleports, you'll need to complete a Mythic +20 or higher keystone dungeon within the time limit in Season 3.
      Keystone Hero: Atal'Dazar Keystone Hero: Black Rook Hold Keystone Hero: Darkheart Thicket Keystone Hero: The Everbloom Keystone Hero: Throne of the Tides Keystone Hero: Waycrest Manor Raids Category
      Two achievements are going away with the launch of Season 4:
      Ahead of the Curve: Fyrakk the Blazing
      The Amirdrassil AoTC achievement will be removed with Season 4. You must defeat Fyrakk on Heroic Difficulty or higher to get it.
      Cutting Edge: Fyrakk the Blazing
      The achievement to defeat Fyrakk on Mythic Difficulty is going away too.
      PvP Category
      The Season 3 Elite PvP transmog gear will no longer be obtainable when Season 4 starts.
      Gladiator: Dragonflight Season 3
      Verdant Gladiator's Slitherdrake, the Season 3 gladiator mount will no longer be obtainable when Season 4 starts. To get the mount you must win 50 games as a Gladiator in Dragonflight Season 3 in 3v3.

      Verdant Gladiator: Dragonflight Season 3
      The "Verdant Gladiator" title is going away in Season 4. You must end Dragonflight PvP Season 3 in the top 0.1% of the 3v3 arena ladder to get it.
      Verdant Legend: Dragonflight Season 3
      The "Verdant Legend" title from the Solo Shuffle ladder is going away in Season 4.
    • By Starym
      The final week of 10.2.5 has (almost) passed and we also have the results of last week's class tuning to check out as well! Tomorrow's 10.2.6 isn't looking to bring too many class changes (if any), but we can't be sure since we don't even know what the patch is. Season 4 isn't starting yet so we'll be hanging out in Amirdrassil for a few more weeks at least, so let's see how things are shaping up.
      Note: We are using Normalized scores instead of raw DPS for the Warcraft Logs rankings. The u.gg rankings at the bottom are raw DPS. Normalized scores take into account the outlier boss fights where certain specs could stack massive DPS (due to the nature of the fight, whether it's AoE spam or something else), which would then affect their overall score for the whole raid.
      Mythic
      Overall Damage 95th Percentile
      We're seeing some big changes around the top, but they're not at all tuning-related! The DKs have joined forces, but it's the non-Fyr'alath-wielding one that's taken the lead, as Frost moves into 2nd, while Unholy takes 3rd. Fury and Retribution move down to make room for the red ones, and we do see the first results of the tuning right after them.
      Frost took its buffs and moved a colossal 16 spots up into 6th, bumping fellow Mage Arcane down one in the process. Elemental takes down Shadow for 9th, using its 3% buff to move up 8 spots, and the Priest closes out the top 10, sitting in a Shaman sandwich. Marksmanship and Survival stick together and use their 3% buffs to move out of the bottom. They land in 13th and 14th, with Survival making a much bigger leap, gaining 10 spots and escaping the bottom 3. Speaking of the bottom, we see Beast Mastery drop down to the final 3 as Survival escapes, joined by Affliction, which showcases the huge difference in the raw DPS and points-based rankings, as the Warlock spec is No.1 in the raw DPS ones below!

      95th percentile Mythic data by Warcraft Logs.
      Overall Damage All Percentiles
      The generalist bracket is more stable and slower moving, as usual, so there isn't that much to see at the top. Down in 6th we do see a big change, as Survival uses it's buff to make an 11-spot leap, just past Unholy. Arcane loses two spots to the Hunter and DK, landing just above a stable Fire and Frost DK. Frost Mage's buffs haven't had a big impact here yet, but the spec does move out of the bottom 3, gaining 4 spots and moving up. Marksmanship moves towards the middle of the pack, buffs in hand, and finds itself gaining 6 spots. This opens up the bottom 3, and it seems there must always be a Hunter at the bottom, with Beast Mastery taking its place there, joined by Feral.
      All percentiles Mythic data by Warcraft Logs.
      Boss Only Damage All Percentiles
      Survival is on the move here as well, gaining 8 spots and moving into 7th, as everything above it remains stable. Elemental also makes a move using its 3% buff, closing out the top 10 and gaining 7 spots.
      All percentiles Mythic data by Warcraft Logs.
      Heroic
      Overall Damage All Percentiles
      We go down to 8th to see the first change in Heroic, as Shadow moves 4 spots up, just ahead of Survival, which gains 9 spots in 9th.

      All percentiles Heroic data by Warcraft Logs.
      U.GG Raw DPS Rankings
      U.gg's rankings are based on actual DPS taken from Warcraft Logs data, focusing on the top players and span the past two weeks. This chart is for Mythic only.
      We're not going to be seeing quite as many drastic changes here, as the raw DPS chart tracks the past two weeks, but there's still plenty to see. Affliction ends the patch at the very top, pretty much the opposite of its position in the points-based rankings. Fury manages to push into 2nd, bumping the Rogue down to 3rd. Unholy makes some more moves and gains two in 9th, joining up with its fellow DK. We do see Frost Mage starting to make its buffed move up, gaining 4 spots to get out of the bottom 3, where it leaves Feral to take its place.
      Mythic chart by u.gg.
       
      Meanwhile, if you're looking for more information you can check out our Dragonflight class guides, Amirdrassil boss guides, the raid DPS tier list, as well as more data from Warcraft Logs here.
    • By Staff
      This week's highlights include the launch of Patch 10.2.6, the Hearthstone anniversary event continues through Friday, and more.
      Additionally, Blizzard is set to unveil a content creator event on March 21st, with new Twitch Drops following on March 22nd.
      For further information, take a look at the official blog post linked below.
      (Source)
      Each week we’ll look ahead to what’s in store for World of Warcraft, share the latest news, and keep you in the know byte by byte. Content update 10.2.6 arrives March 19.
      The 10.2.6 Content Update Arrives March 19
      Mark your calendar for March 19 when the 10.2.6 content update goes live with a bold, new, limited-time event. You won't want to miss out on the fun. It's important to note that Dragonflight season 4 will go live several weeks after the release of the 10.2.6 content update. For heroes working toward the Amirdrassil Feats of Strength, you'll need to obtain Ahead of the Curve: Fyrakk the Blazing before Season 4 begins, and the achievement is no longer available to earn.
      Hearthstone’s Anniversary Event in World of Warcraft Extended to March 22
      Join in Hearthstone’s 10-year anniversary celebration beginning March 11. Players can log into Hearthstone to collect a new Fiery Hearthsteed mount in World of Warcraft for free!*
      Players can also seek out special “Hearthstone” matches in capital cities from March 11 to March 22. Stick around long enough and you’ll face a special encounter where you can defeat iconic minions to add to your deck and earn other fun new Hearthstone-themed rewards! Learn more about collecting the Fiery Hearthsteed and the in-game events in our latest article.
      Visit the Hearthstone official site to learn more about the full slate of festivities.
      * No additional purchase necessary for the Fiery Hearthsteed mount. Limited-time offer only available to those who login to Hearthstone between March 11 and May 14. Mount not available in World of Warcraft® Classic games. 
      News and Events This Week
      Stay on top of all the upcoming news and in-game activities right here.
      March 17 (Event) Un’Goro Madness Micro Holiday (March 17 – March 19)
      The dinosaurs in Un’Goro are getting restless. Time to go pay them a visit! March 19 (Article and Event) Content Update 10.2.6 Reveal and Now Live (Article) New Twitch Drop Revealed (Event) PvP Brawl: Shado-Pan Showdown (March 19 – March 26) (Event) Battleground Bonus Event (March 19 – March 26)
      While this event is active, random Battlegrounds will award Honor at an increased rate. Glory awaits in the fields of battle! March 20 (Event) The Trial of Style Returns (March 20 – March 26)
      Dust off those pauldrons and compete in a fashion competition of Azerothian proportions! Speak to a transmogrifier in any major city to participate in the Trial of Style! March 21 (Article) New Content Creator Event Announced March 22 (Article) Blues News (Event) New Twitch Drop Now Live Stay tuned to the official World of Warcraft news site as we journey through the week together.
×
×
  • Create New...