MattzPwnzEU

BM or switch to MM, overall problems... please help me.

10 posts in this topic

Hello, 

first of all, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Matt and I am playing on EU server-Burning Legion (H). I have joined the Progression just before ToS, not really experienced with Hunter etc. 

 

Anyways, I have two issues: One is in regards to BM and second whether (and if when/.... should I roll MM). 

 

Quote

Let's start with BM - my current spec

(https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/burning-legion/rainc)

Legendaries in use / available :

In use:

Quote

The Apex Predator's Claw
Sephuz's Secret


Available:
 

Quote

Kil'jaeden (not in use currently, because I have EoE 920 & TSM trinkets and do not really have any ring to replace it). 

 

Talents (Cobra, Dire Frenzy, Posthaste, Bestial Fury), Binding SHot, Crows, Killer Cobra)

Stats with flask /food
40% Crit, 10% Haste, 86% Mastery, 6% Vers, 2% Leech
Currently 3/4 at T20
55 trait

 

Questions:

1. When i sim myself on raidbot (quick sim, light movement, 5mins) it seems that dire frenzy build works better than stomp (Stomp+One with the pack)? Is that so? Am I using the correct build for talents or should I go with Stomp?

2. I have Apex Predator's as my main current legendary (stats etc.) - Should I use Tenacity (*with turned off Thunderstomp) for best DPS?
3. How crucial to my DPS is using Titan's Thunder/Crows timed ? I am using on cd usually?
4. Is Prolonged power better or deadly should be used?
5. Which items should be changed and how should my stats look like ? (I've heard something about 20% haste.... but I don't have it atm). 

 

___________________________
MM:

Current Trait 47, could go 52 fairly easily, but then...
 

1. I should be getting 4th legendary this week, should I reroll with my current gear to MM? (I can get 900+ relics fairly easily I guess)
2. If not now, what kind of gear should I replace before I would switch?
3. Should I switch and if so now or collect gear/later ?
4. What about trinkets for MM(will those I currently hold be of any use)? I have botanist/grizzly ring from EN but they're like 875/865....... 
 

 

 

As for the logs, I've returned to the game lately in June, where I was carried/geared by guild, so the real progression started for me like 2 last weeks so those are the logs you should be looking at. I know it is shieeet, but then again that's why I am here begging for help.

My dream is to start doing mythic raids, but as far as I am from it I would do all I can, please help me if possible.

 

 

Kind regards,

Matt.

Edited by MattzPwnzEU

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First off, welcome. 

First I would like to answer your questions on BM as best I can.

1) Your stats line you up very well for the stomp build but the stomp build also uses OwtP and i see that you do not use that with your stomp. When you run your stomp sim, make sure you have OwtP talented. you also really need to get that 4pT20 especially if you are going to drop the 2pT19. being perfectly geared for each spec and playing it perfectly though,  yes DF build will come out on top but only slightly and not enough to use that as your decision maker. play what you play best and what feels comfortable to you. you also really need new legendaries.

2) Yes, when running apex, set your pet to tenacity for the extra damage from Charge.

3) Yes, it is very crucial to use these on CD. HOWEVER, you can delay crows a few seconds in order for it to align with BW/hero and you always want to cast titan's thunder when you have at least 1 dire beast out. If you have no beasts out, wait.

4)Prolonged Power, make sure you are pre-potting and using one during hero, if you guys use hero at the start make sure to use a 2nd one later in the fight, preferably when you have bw/crows/Aotw all ready to use with it.

5) Your stats to me look pretty good esp if you run Stomp/OwtP. You want around 35-40% crit which you have. Then usually go for mastery. For exact stat weights, you really have to sim yourself though as the ratio of your stats is really what determines where the most damage per stat point will come from.

Other BM observations: Make that 4th piece of T20 a priority. If you can run 2pT19 and 2pT20 in the meantime without losing too many ilvls, you may see a damage increase. Raidbots can tell you. You need better legendaries. What is your loot spec set to? You don’t have any of the high priority BM legendaries. If you are serious about BM, you need BM legendries.

 

Overall, your character looks pretty solid. Your stats seem balanced. Possibly switch to OwtP on your stomp build. Maybe run 2pT19. And pursue better legendaries and 4th piece of T20.

 

As for the MM stuff, someone else probably Luthixx or Banard will have to help you there as I don’t at all play it. I will say however that if you can play it as well as you can play BM, MM will do higher damage, most of the time. You talk about switching specs. I don’t know much about MM so I don’t know how your stats will transfer. Leveling an artifact weapon to concordance is really easy so that won’t hold you back but what will is the lack of legendaries. HOWEVER, you want to switch to MM, now is the time because the BM ones you have aren’t that great either. So you are going to want 2 new legendaries either way you go.

 

Hope this has been helpful. Happy Hunting.  

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Well first off, since you said you just joined progression just before ToS started I think it's safe to assume that you don't have any tier 19, right? The Stomp/OWtP build relies heavily on using the Tier 19 2-piece bonus, which increases the damage of Dire Beast and Stomp by 50% during Besital Wrath. Without this bonus, the Stomp build does not work, period. Therefore, you'll be using Dire Frenzy.

Sisco covered most of what you asked, but since you're using Dire Frenzy there are no Beasts out for Titan's Thunder. Just make sure to use Titan's Thunder during Bestial Wrath.

 

Your critical hit is inflated because you're wearing two legendary rings that give massive amounts of crit, but are overall suboptimal pieces of gear. Farming legendaries is probably your best choice at the moment. Run all the LFR bosses every week, all the regular mythic dungeons once a week, as many broken shore caches as you can and all the emissary caches. From what I know mythic keystones are not good for farming legendaries. Plus your regular raiding schedule obviously. You should get a legendary every 3 weeks or so if you do all the content, or every 2 weeks if you have a massive amount of time to play the game (PvP also drops legendaries, for example, or pugging lower difficulty raids that your guild doesn't farm anymore for more boss kills).

 

Legendaries become an issue if you want to switch to Marksmanship, so you need to switch early and keep at it if you plan to go MM. Being indecisive with your spec is particularly bad in Legion (at least until you get all the legendaries, but you're not in a good spot for that). Without better legendaries, MM will probably be weaker than BM, but your current BM legendaries aren't particularly great anyway, so if you switch right now you should be fine. But if you don't switch soon then you shouldn't switch at all.

However, legendary bad luck protection works separately for every spec. If you are due a legendary soon for your BM spec, then you're not due one for MM. When you switch loot specs you also switch the legendary bad luck protection. Sephuz and Kil'Jaeden count as global legendaries for MM as well, so you won't get the "first legendary per spec boost" anymore either.

The tarnished sentinel medallion is perfect for MM. The engine not so much.

Edited by Khallid
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4 hours ago, Sisco said:

 

So you are going to want 2 new legendaries either way you go.

 

@ OP there is nothing ideally wrong with your leggos...the only one that will be a significant increase over the others is the belt and from what i been seeing with my own sims and with out people logs it really depends on your "other piece" . For example: my optimal leggo combo was pyrda and the belt ...but then a 930 crit/mastery neck drop and sephuz is the winner over pryda.  But i am not 100% sure how the proc is taken into account in the sims so i run huntmaster which is only a wee bit shy of sephuz (1-2K dps which is less then the error). Apex is just another 1-2k dps less then huntmaster so leggo is not a big concern. I.E they are not game changing for you. 

 

(sorry going to quote a few people here and not sure how to do it all in one post). 

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4 hours ago, Khallid said:

Well first off, since you said you just joined progression just before ToS started I think it's safe to assume that you don't have any tier 19, right? The Stomp/OWtP build relies heavily on using the Tier 19 2-piece bonus, which increases the damage of Dire Beast and Stomp by 50% during Besital Wrath. Without this bonus, the Stomp build does not work, period. Therefore, you'll be using Dire Frenzy.

 

@OP this is not 100% true...for example running your current gear throw raid bots and only taking talent into account the difference between the dire frenzy and stomp build is less then 1,000 dps. DF>Stomp.  I ran it again and Stomp was better then DF by 400 DPS. So for you with your current gear you can choose either one. I advise stomp on personal xp. 

 

There are even other options. Keep in mind, those lucky RNG peeps that get high level teir 19 would do better but without that, high ilevel teir 20 would work or even the shoulders/bracer crit set works. 

I did siming last night because i got the 930 set shoulders in my weekly chest. If i can get 920+ bracers than that would sim higher and i can drop tier 19.  (my tier 19 options suck, 895-905) 

but my guildy who got 940 tier 19 shoulders...well....lets all agree he is ^*&^*%ity &*%&*%ed ^*^*%&*%er. Then again he says that to me over my 950 tomb trinket. 

Edited by Banard

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3 hours ago, Khallid said:

Your critical hit is inflated because you're wearing two legendary rings that give massive amounts of crit, but are overall suboptimal pieces of gear. Farming legendaries is probably your best choice at the moment.

@ OP Again this isn't a game changer at the moment.  I have even seen quite a few hunters who dropped the belt and run pryda/secret for progression and get fantastic logs. 

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@OP your normal logs from last night show you are getting better but you are performing low for your ilevel.  Now then ever before that part of the warcraft logs is a bit misleading. I.E you don't have 2 teir 19 which would lower your ilevel but increase your dps. 

Doing good with BM depends on two things (1) gear (its very gear depended) (2) knowing the fights. Its that simple.

 And not dying. bah! That can kill any good parse.  Me last night on KJ and Mythic Goroth...god i hate the last 30 min of the raid night. 

Just to highlight how gear depended BM is, up to last night my own dps was shit cause i was on vacation. So my gear was garbage and i was behind on fight mechanics. This week i am back up to my 90%+ parses unless i die so feel a lot better. 

(we still need a buff but i'll leave that argument for now). 

 

also...OP your relics are poo...nice ilevel but man there some poopy relics traits.  That is probably just RNG....but just think for a second...someone with the same ilevel as you but with better trait would have a a significant higher dps  than you. Another reason why your performance last night put you in 80% of normal but 40% of ilevel. 

Edited by Banard

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4 hours ago, Sisco said:

 

5) Your stats to me look pretty good esp if you run Stomp/OwtP. You want around 35-40% crit which you have. Then usually go for mastery. For exact stat weights, you really have to sim yourself though as the ratio of your stats is really what determines where the most damage per stat point will come from.

 

see you re-read things and find new things....its all about balance. At 10% haste you find haste will have higher stat weights than mastery and crit. I myself am at 14% haste and the sims want me to add a wee bit more. I think ideally, i need high ilevel on the items i have and then switch 1 item to some haste value item. 

Right now i been playing with my 2nd ring slow going from 33% crit, 14% Haste,  80% mastery to 29% crit, 18% haste and 85% mastery..with stomp builds both are very close. Sims switch back and fourth which one is higher then the other. I would feel better with switching to the higher mastery of i got a "high ilevel" in another slot that would push crit above 30%.

Its all about balance.  

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3 hours ago, Banard said:

(sorry going to quote a few people here and not sure how to do it all in one post). 

You can just keep clicking on the quote button and it will insert the quote where your cursor is located in the dialogue box.

3 hours ago, Banard said:

sephuz is the winner over pryda.  But i am not 100% sure how the proc is taken into account in the sims so i run huntmaster which is only a wee bit shy of sephuz

I tried to test this looking at the SimulationCraft report from Raidbots and it seems that if you sim it as the regular patchwerk Sephuz never procs. When I simmed it as Casting Patchwerk the simulation procced Sephuz every 48.6 seconds on average.

Edited by Khallid

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In regards to all the comments made, both the DF and stomp build are extremely close in sims at the moment. But for the most part, the logs aren't representative of this because stomp has the highest POTENTIAL dps. If you look at the dps margins, stomp with great procs is almost 200k higher than the median sim. DF is less prevalent in the top logs because it's a far more consistent spec and is less likely to have an insane string of procs in one fight leading to an awesome parse.

In terms of what to play, whether it be BM (stomp vs DF) or MM, just go with what you enjoy the most. I don't think anyone can tell you which spec you should or shouldn't play, especially not based on logs. I.e. I absolutely love MM and it was my favourite spec in WoD, but I suck at it now (in part due to being almost 20 artefact ranks lower, as well as poor relics and poor stat ratios, so I tend to stick to BM because I'm confident in my ability to play it. As someone whose biggest enjoyment comes from the numbers and loot, I'm going to stick to BM as that's where I'll get the best results.

As for your legendaries, as Banard said it really doesn't matter what you have, currently it's mostly based on the ilvl or where you need your stats being pulled up. As I recently got a 930 TF socketed ring with 2.5k crit and 1k versa on it, I can swap out Sephuz for Prydaz and I go up about 15k dps. But I also have 43% crit 20% haste and 59% ish percent mastery (somewhere around those values).

Stomp build, contrary to what Khallid will tell you, is still viable without 2pc T19 - I have a guildie who has yet to get decent t19 items and so runs without them and instead has two items that are around 935 ilvl, so the stat bonus for him was too much of an upgrade to swap out for 880 T19. Granted, you will see the best results with 2pc T19 but it isn't essential.

You have 2 relics that would be amazing for the AotB build, so it may also be worthwhile looking into that as well. I am very jealous of those two relics you have! 

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask!

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