Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

Battle for Azeroth Beta Class Feedback: May 3

Recommended Posts


The latest blue posts roundup deals with the Druid Travel form, Mistweaver Monks & Protection Warriors.

Druid Travel Form

In case you've missed it, Druid's Aquatic FormAquatic Form & Flight FormFlight Form now have separate entries in the spellbook as of the latest Beta Build 26530.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

I’ve been thinking a lot lately as to why I still hate the changes to travel form after all these years. There has been a lot of changes to druids forms in the past that I have been against, like the removal of the resto tree, but given time I’ve gotten used to it and I’m cool with not having it. (although I do appreciate the glyph =D ) same with shapeshifting being on the GCD, I prefer it the old way but I’m cool with it. 

So why do I still hate the travel form consolidation? Is it the technical problems? Right now I barely have visual clues as to what I’m going to turn into, so if I’m stuck in combat I end up
spaming travel form until I get bird. That’s an annoyance not worthy of hate and if it was just that I would be cool it by now. I can live with annoyances with relation to my forms. it's part of being a druid, our forms are quirky.

When they first combined them they introduced a glyph that separated out flight form, me disliking the changes snatched that up so I could have them separated on my bars. The side effect of that glyph was my stag form was now
ridable. Of course all of my guild thought this was a cool new toy and proceeded to jump on my back for a free ride. This did not sit well with me. This was not an annoyance, this unsettled me deeply; I didn’t want people jumping on me with no invitation or consent on my part beyond my desire to chill in my stag form. However I loved having my flight form separated out, so I decided to train my guild to stay off. Lucky there was a lot of death pools around archimonde. It took a few weeks but I could chill in my stag form with no one getting on me, most days. Still every so often someone would jump on and I would play it off as a game, but I killed them to prove a point. Their attempts to ride me was not welcome.

Jump to Legion. The introduction of class mounts, druids got a cool
two person flight form. It was said it would be separate from our flight form so I was all excited. I got onto the PTR, got my class form and I liked it. It was a separate button, I could CHOOSE to shift into it and let people ride me while still having a flight form that no one could mount. I loved that concept, I could allow people to ride me at my whim. I could easily consent to them riding me just like the two person mounts. Then they combined it into our regular flight form and my attitude shifted hard. I flat out refuse to use it. Thankfully I didn’t fall in love with the appearance, I don’t feel like I’m missing out by not using it but some druids do. 

game our avatars are a reflection of ourselves. What happens to them affects us as players emotionally on some level. So the fact that people can get on me without my consent is very unsettling, it's invasive. Maybe I’m overly sensitive given my own history but I wanted to put this out there and request some change so druids can have the forms they want and still be able to grant some form of consent. I understand the way its set up now it might not be feasible or practical, but at least think about it.

Thanks for bringing this up. It would definitely be ideal for you to be able to have control over something like this, so even though there's not an immediate solution, I wanted to say we appreciate you making what might have been a difficult post.

On live, you at least have the option of Glyph of the CheetahGlyph of the Cheetah for the ground case, and as you mention, ordinary Swift Flight Form for the air case. I know that's not perfect since you may prefer to use other appearances--as we try to add more avenues for character customization, I hope we can find a place for this kind of option on Travel FormTravel Form.

Mistweaver Monk

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

6. Using Enveloping Mist while channeling Soothing Mist with TFT active eats a TFT charge.
 This shouldn't happen.

Quick note--the Thunder Focus TeaThunder Focus Tea-Enveloping MistEnveloping buff has a new instant heal component added on beta, which you still benefit from if you Thunder Focus TeaThunder Focus Tea -Enveloping MistEnveloping during Soothing MistSoothing Mist. While this loses part of the value of the buff, it's still a reasonable option to provide for when an instant heal seems important.

All that said, one concern with the current setup on beta is that Thunder Focus TeaThunder Focus Tea -Renewing MistRenewing might dominate the other uses of Thunder Focus TeaThunder Focus Tea too often. Some of the exact bonuses it provides may have to be adjusted once everything else settles.

Protection Warrior

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

I wanted to add to the analysis of protection warriors discussion by looking at some of the mathematics of our baseline 110 mitigation, especially in relation to druids as they are another primarily mitigation based tank. Most of the discussions on these forums have been primarily qualitative analysis; disliking the general feel or flow of the class, and/or commenting on the various talent lines. The goal of this post is to present a numerical overview of our mitigation as it stands on the beta (build 26530), because I think from a mitigation standpoint we are significantly weaker than other mitigation based tanks (namely guardian druid).


  • Baseline 110 warrior and druid on BFA Beta
  • Build 26530

Warrior Stats:

  • Baseline Physical Mitigation: 47.49%
  • Dodge + Parry: 23.13%
  • Block Chance: 29.46%
  • Critical Block Chance: 39.60%
  • Block Fraction: 30%

Effective Warrior Mitigation

If one then calculates the average damage taken (reducing the incoming DPS by the P/D chance and then adding in block and mitigation), the baseline warrior health takes 35.51% of the incoming physical damage. If we addon 100% uptime on Bolster as we already have too much rage, this becomes 31.54%. Thus, with bolster the average mitigation of a protection warrior is 68.46%.
  • No Bolster: 64.49% effective mitigation
  • Bolster: 68.46% effective mitigation

Another calculation worth doing is our damage reduction in our active mitigation (shield block). This gives us 100% chance to block and at 110baseline a 69.06% chance to critically block. Thus the results are as follows:

  • No Bolster: 80.07% effective mitigation
  • Bolster: 82.30% effective mitigation

If we then amortize the active mitigation calculation by assuming 33% uptime (6s with 18s recharge), the average mitigation of a protection warrior is as follows:

  • No Bolster: 69.69% effective mitigation
  • Bolster: 73.07% effective mitigation

This does not take into consideration the change in any additional cooldowns, this is merely a base mitigation calculation.

Effective Druid Mitigation:

It's worth comparing this against a baseline druid on the beta who can maintain 100% uptime on IF (ironfur). We'll look at 100% uptime 0, 1, and 2 stacks of IF. The baseline druid has 21% dodge.
  • No Ironfur: 52.42% effective mitigation
  • 1 Stack IF: 60.90% effective mitigation
  • 2 Stack IF: 66.43% effective mitigation

Assuming a druid can keep 100% uptime on 2 stacks of IF, the protection warrior with 100% bolster uptime (easily maintained) manages 2.03% higher mitigation without the use of shield block. With consistent shield blockusage this gap increases to 6.64% higher mitigation.

Disclaimer: this is sort of analysis is necessarily rough--beyond these basic estimates, talents and many other things will affect mitigation and overall tank performance in any given context.

Disclaimer 2: I didn't review your calculations or assumptions, but the approach seems reasonable.

Even based on your own conclusions, you're greatly downplaying the Warrior's mitigation advantage in your example. "Only 6.64%" is a very large difference when the Druid is only taking 33.57% of incoming damage in the first place. The Warrior (who's taking 26.93% of incoming damage) is taking 19.8% less damage than a Druid. 19.8% is a very large mitigation advantage--it amounts to a 25% increase in effective health, which is very close to the 29% higher health the Druid has in your example.

  • Like 1

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites


Protection Warriors, not Protection Paladins.


Blizzard never talks Protection Paladins :(  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Migol said:


Protection Warriors, not Protection Paladins.


Blizzard never talks Protection Paladins :(  

Fixed, thank you!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

But effective mitigation is a lot more than the factors explained there. We're not taking into consideration sustainability from healing effects.


Or cooldowns, which are also very important in the overall performance of a class. Or that the druid has increased healing received from all sources in their mastery but that wasn't calculated in the effective mitigation, while critical block (The warrior mastery) was.


Am I overlooking something or was his assessment really shortsighted?


Edit: not to mention unblockable effects that might still be dodge-able (i.e. blocking a physical attack may still cause bleeding depending on the encounter but dodging it entirely will not) There are so many more variables involved...

Edited by Yridaa

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Yridaa said:

But effective mitigation is a lot more than the factors explained there. We're not taking into consideration sustainability from healing effects.


Or cooldowns, which are also very important in the overall performance of a class. Or that the druid has increased healing received from all sources in their mastery but that wasn't calculated in the effective mitigation, while critical block (The warrior mastery) was.


Am I overlooking something or was his assessment really shortsighted?


Edit: not to mention unblockable effects that might still be dodge-able (i.e. blocking a physical attack may still cause bleeding depending on the encounter but dodging it entirely will not) There are so many more variables involved...

I'm with you, i'm a bit scared what blizz is doing with my lovely prot. I learnd to play with IP and i do enoy it. Now its gone, and atm also our selfheal is gone. 

Its funny, its stated this more live of a druid is due to less mitigation...and how are we gonna be buffed for magic dmg, where we havent more mitigation than a druid? Do we again have to live with it, so we have less health and got less selfheal? Mhhh, not amused. Gonna say my healers they have to save all cds for me again (odin and krosus sent me some greetings).... 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Yridaa said:

But effective mitigation is a lot more than the factors explained there. We're not taking into consideration sustainability from healing effects.

But strict mitigation, which is what this OP was talking about, doesnt take into account self heals.  Strictly damage reduction.

I agree that overall class effectiveness should take that into account, but strictly mitigation is warrior's home cooking.  

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking IP from warr, buried him realy deep, compared to other tanks...paladins/druids/Dks/DM have self heal with prety low CD and rdy to use when need..even monks have some absorbs...warr now just have only shield block and then CD (WR can be used only after killing or every 30sec on use with talent..that not enought) ...now in beta warrior tank hardly survive 1/2 the amount of mobs than other tanks and some healers just wanted them to switch in to arms :(

Edited by Perak

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Stan
      Blizzard is working on some hotfixes for Queen Azshara that will go live with maintenance in each region. The final boss of The Eternal Palace will be nerfed soon so that more Alliance guilds can fill the Mythic Hall of Fame.
      The faction imbalance is quite strong with this one because only 5 Alliance guilds have defeated Mythic Azshara so far. On the Horde side of things, we've got 30 guilds that downed the final boss. Hopefully, more Alliance guilds will down her after the nerfs, so that cross-realm raiding will be enabled soon.
      Blizzard (Source)
      We’re working on the following hotfixes today. We intend to apply to these changes to the Queen Azshara encounter with weekly maintenance in each region:
      When either Aethenel or Cyranus is slain on Normal, Heroic, or Mythic difficulty, there is now a 3-second delay before the other one gains the Torment buff. Azshara's Indomitable is now summoned 10 seconds later than previously observed on Mythic difficulty. Tidemistresses have 5% less health on Mythic difficulty. Arcane Wards now energize slightly slower for smaller raid sizes on Normal and Heroic difficulties. Fixed an issue that allowed Arcane Vulnerability to apply when the victim wasn’t in line of sight of Queen Azshara. We’ll update this post if there are any further changes, and when the hotfixes go live.
    • By Stan
      It's time to find out what awaits us in Patch 8.2.5 which is now available for playtesting on Public Test Realms.
      Welcome to our Patch 8.2.5 content hub. We will be frequently updating it with links to our latest news coverage.
      Patch 8.2.5 Release Date Speculuation
      Based on the datamined Vulpera mug icon, it's safe to assume that the Allied Race will go live before next Brewfest, which is on or before September 20th.
      Allied Races
      While no Allied Races have been confirmed for Patch 8.2.5, we're speculating that Blizzard is adding Mechagnomes and the Vulpera of Vol'dun this time around.
      The Future of Allied Races Vulpera Coming in Patch 8.2.5 New Goblin and Worgen Models
      Blizzard is adding new models for both races introduced back in Cataclysm. Blizzard confirmed that there will be no Heritage Armor in 8.2.5.
      Goblin and Worgen Models Preview Celebrate 15 Years of Warcraft
      November 2019 marks the 15th anniversary of World of Warcraft, and players who log in during the event period will receive a celebration package in the mail with a Lil' Nefarian pet and other in-game goodies. Throughout the duration of the event, you’ll be able to participate in three unique raids with iconic encounters from past expansions along with an old-school-inspired Alterac Valley battleground. Players who defeat all nine bosses in the raid wings will receive the Obsidian Worldbreaker, a Black Dragonflight mount inspired by Deathwing. Players who participate in Alterac Valley will receive a new anniversary event currency which can be exchanged for two new mounts: the Stormpike Battle Charger (Alliance) and the Frostwolf Snarler (Horde).
      Obsidian Worldbreaker Mount Preview Frostwolf Snarler & Stormpike Battle Charger Mount Preview 15th Anniversary Alabaster Mounts Honeyback Harvester (Bee Mount)
      Alliance players will finally be able to get their hands on the long-awaited Bee mount (Honeyback Harvester)
      Where Is My Bee Mount? New Timewalking Raid: Firelands
      When Cataclysm Timewalking is active, max-level players will be able to form raid groups and enter the Sulfuron Spire once more. As with previous Timewalking raids (Black Temple, Ulduar), your gear and power are scaled to the challenge, and all the bosses and rewards you expect lie in wait.
      Party Sync
      Blizzard is experimenting with a new mode in the forthcoming patch that makes it easier for players in a party to do quests and play together: Party Sync. When players activate Party Sync, everyone in the party becomes aligned to the same quest state, including phases. By mousing over a quest in your tracker, you can see who is on the quest, what their progress is, and who’s ready to turn in the quest. There’s something else we’re going to try out on the PTR, a “replay” quest feature. This will allow players who have already completed certain quests to replay those quests with their friends for rewards that are appropriate to their current level, regardless of the original level of the quest.
      They're also relaxing level restrictions on queueing for instanced content with your friends. This allows lower-level players to queue for content in their level range, and higher-level players can choose to join them by having their level scaled down while they’re in the instance. This feature will be available for dungeon instances for PTR Week 1, with PvP instances being flagged in the following weeks. Please note that unlike Timewalking, when your level is scaled down via Party Sync you will temporarily lose access to abilities and powers (such as Azerite traits) with requirements that exceed your reduced level.
      Recruit A Friend Returns
      Coming in 8.2.5 is a revamped Recruit A Friend system. If you have active game time you’ll be able to recruit your friends—both brand-new to the game and returning champions—to share in your adventures. To do so, you’ll be able to use a new URL generation tool to create a custom link to give to your friends. By following the link, you’ll be connected to each other and will be able to see if they have purchased game time, resulting in rewards for you! For each month your recruits have active game time, you’ll earn a new reward such as unique pets, mounts, game time and more. These rewards unlock per month and scale with how many months your recruits have subscribed for. And, of course, with Party Sync you’ll be able to journey with your friends on any of your characters. We’ll have more information about Recruit A Friend rewards before 8.2.5 release.
      Recruit-a-Friend Mount Preview: Explorer's Dunetrekker The Story Continues...
      We datamined new models for Wrathion, Valeera, Zekhan, and Calia Menethil in 8.2.5 Build 31337. Wrathion is part of the story in the new patch and he's involved in a Karazhan Scenario and we also found a new Hearthstone Tavern in the game.
      Phone Login
      Do you guys not have phones? In Patch 8.2.5, you can use your phone to log into the game.
      Log In to World of Warcraft with Your Phone Battle Pets
      New butterfly pets and the anniversary battle pet Lil' Nefarian await in 8.2.5!
      All Patch 8.2.5 Battle Pets Build Highlights
      In the following section, you'll find a summary of what's been added in the latest 8.2.5 PTR builds.
      Patch 8.2.5 Build 31521: Highlights Patch 8.2.5 Build 31401: Highlights Patch 8.2.5 Build 31337: Highlights Patch 8.2.5 Build 31337: New Creature Models Patch 8.2.5: Initial Development Notes Important 8.2.5 information, all in one place!
    • By Stan
      Sadly, there will be no Heritage Armor added in Patch 8.2.5.
      Both Goblins and the Worgen received new models in Patch 8.2.5, but Blizzard today confirmed that they were no plans for any Heritage Armor questlines, even though the latest MMORPG.com interview claims the direct opposite.
      Blizzard (Source)
      So according to the interview with Morgan Day and Shani Edwards on MMORPG dot com, it was mentioned that the heritage armor sets for worgen and goblins will be landing at the same time as the model upgrades.
      I lack the posting count to have permission to include links in my posts but the article on there is titled “New World of Warcraft 8.2 Info: Tyrande, Sylvanas, Customization, OH MY!” for those who want to go have a look themselves. Here’s a quote, though:
      "Goblin and Worgen fans will be pleased to hear that the long-awaited model update for each will be arriving in a future content patch.
      “Shortly after Rise of Azshara, you’ll see that,” Morgan explained. “These are the two races that haven’t been updated. They’ll have new heritage armor with that as well.”
      Is this still going to be the case? I ask because there was no mention of this in the development notes for the 8.2.5 PTR. Can we get some blue confirmation as to whether or not those plans have changed?
      I can confirm that 8.2.5 does not include any new Heritage Armor questlines
    • By Stan
      Blizzard added a new Hearthstone Tavern to the game in Patch 8.2.5 and here's a first look at the new zone.
      Check out our Patch 8.2.5 for the latest news!
      We currently do not know what the purpose of the tavern is going to be. In the initial 8.2.5 build, we found a zone called "Tradewind & Crow: Dreamgrove Detectives" in the LFG Dungeons table and some sort of murder investigation scenario steps.
      On top of that, World Safe Locs have been updated with the following entries:
      Hearthstone Tavern - Buddy Cop Scenario - Start Loc (JLW) Hearthstone Tavern - Buddy Cop Scenario - Graveyard Hearthstone Tavern - Safe Loc Note that only the third entry contains the correct MapID of the tavern (2195). The first two locations are that of Dreamgrove.
      The tavern is extremely detailed and the art team must have put a lot of effort into designing the area. There are decks on almost all tables, detailed paintings hanging on the wall, and individual cards floating in one of the rooms.

    • By Stan
      Our preview of Patch 8.2.5 continues with battle pets! There are three butterfly mounts tied to the Bee mount faction in Stormsong Valley, a new Recruit-a-Friend and the Lil' Nefarian anniversary pet!
      Check out our Patch 8.2.5 for more info about Battle for Azeroth's upcoming patch!
      Crimson Skipper
      The red butterfly drops from Honey Smasher in Stormsong Valley.
      This butterfly is stained red from the blood of its enemies.

      Lil' Nefarian
      The battle pet will become obtainable in November as part of the 15th Anniversary Event.
      This pocket-sized Lord of Blackrock is too small to call out any classes, but he can still dish up a good insult.

      Papi drops from Fresh Jelly Deposit in Stormsong Valley.
      Legend has it that these purple butterflies came from a place called Devil's Island.

      This pet is rewarded from Recruit-a-Friend, but the model is unavailable at this time.
      Rikki has a talent for sneaking in and out of all manner of small spaces if bribed properly with figs.
      Sunsoaked Flitter
      The yellow butterfly drops from Fresh Jelly Deposit in Stormsong Valley.
      The wings of this butterfly start off with no distinct color but slowly change to yellow as they spend time in the sunlight.

  • Create New...