Tankier Vengeance build

[lawrence131 0]

Vengeance looks to have a great amount of damage/AE/threat already by default but feels like the gaps in mitigation is the most dangerous part of the spec for raid tanking.  The default recommended build seems ultra offensive brand new into an incoming expansion.

 

Soul Barrier seems a lot more useful than a very small constant damage reduction in Void Reaper, but is it hard to sustain the Soul Frags to effectively have enough to rotate Spirit Bomb, Soul Barrier (used very often almost as a gap filler when Spikes is down), and Soul Cleave?

 

Would a build losing some Damage and leech from Spirit Bomb to focus just on alternating more Soul Cleave and Soul Barrier in an attempt to smooth out damage when you don't have enough Spike uptime be feasible?  Keeping Abyssal and Flame crash still helps maintain a lot of AE/dmg/threat as a more balanced build?

 

I know a damage shield is not the same thing as mitigation but it is a decent sized one on low CD, and keeping Fracture to keep high Soul Frag generation for more Soul Cleaves during the absorb shield should still act similar to mitigation to smooth out damage.  You double dip on the Soul Cleaves during Soul Barrier since each one adds to the shield on top of healing you right?

 

Has anyone tried a build like this on higher end content?  Just contemplated switching mains from Blood to Vengeance since Blood just plays so painfully slow so mine isn't ready to test on anything hard yet.

[Valks 2,373]

On 7/24/2018 at 1:55 AM, lawrence131 said:

Vengeance looks to have a great amount of damage/AE/threat already by default but feels like the gaps in mitigation is the most dangerous part of the spec for raid tanking.  The default recommended build seems ultra offensive brand new into an incoming expansion.

Just want to say, if you're referring to the build Munkky suggests, it's because the guide is aimed at the pre-patch. We've got 3 more weeks of people being incredibly overgeared for current content and there being little reason for major-reduction progression talents. There are ultra-defensive builds you can run (and sometimes need to, if you're trying for a new Mythic kill before BfA), but they don't apply to most people and won't until BfA launches. 

Soul Barrier is better as a defensive cooldown, but Void Reaper is the better overall reduction. 

I think you're underestimating the impact that SB can have on your self healing/survival. I assume you would take Gluttony instead, but it is an RNG-based talent that gives a pretty average effect. I don't think it's worth taking, especially since it can proc while you aren't tanking. Fel Devastation is, at least for now, even worse.

[Blightrose 5]

I tried this in high mythics, I much prefer our version of purgatory over soul barrier. In a raid I would probably switch to soul barrier but still keep the bomb, I know 10% "leech" isnt much but it does add up over the course of a long fight.

Tried Gluttony as well but the proc rate is so horrendously low that it's basically a waste. While I would love to have Feed The Demon, I cant really give up fracture, it is just such a nice soul/pain builder.

[lawrence131 0]

thanks for the replies - yea it doesn't make sense to do SB and Barrier since I couldn't manage the soul fragments with limited gear and experience.  At least in my gear I just can't rotate bomb, barrier, and cleave.  It's likely since the pre-patch especially early on had apparently some tuning problems with some dungeon damage output and being new to DH.  I never actually died going to only plus 5 but severely poorly geared since just started gearing him the week of the pre-patch.  I didn't have enough time to log a long, long fight to test the trigger rate on Gluttony but I believe with 5 minutes on the dummy I got 7-8 triggers.  In low gear and some tuning still needed, running Barrier, Gluttony, and duel absorb trinkets (the 30 sec passive one and 1.2 min active one) - talent 1213113, it was way easier for me to always have some significant defensive option when a big hit was coming and my Spikes weren't ready yet.  Each time Gluttony procs it let me buy several seconds of Spike recharge, and between Barrier and Pyroz with only 30 secs, Fiery on 60 secs, and Archimonde on 72 secs, I almost never had periods of high dmg intake with 0 defensives ready.  My guess after just a couple days and a bunch of M+ runs Gluttony was in the ball park of 40 sec between triggers.

 

I assume it must be just major lack of experience or the tuning wasn't accurate yet with the stat squish, but this build made the runs feel so much safer.  With so many backup options when I couldn't Spike, even though I never actually died in the offensive build it got scary multiple times lol.  I felt the same with the Fracture too - Feed the Demon is the most obvious way to maintain more mitigation on paper but the Fragment and pain loss felt a lot worse than some Spike CD.   I'll practice the offensive recommended build more and maybe there was some tuning or I will learn to deal with bigger gaps with nothing left to use when I really want a Spike while it's down.  Since the only downside I noticed was a little damage loss since I still ran all the other high damage talents the 1213113 build definitely felt easier until I really master what degree of damage increases I can live without a Spike up.  Loosing the leech but having a lot more Cleaves since Barrier can only be used every 30 secs felt like it mostly made up for the steady 10% leech but gave so many absorbs.  Just found out today about the 210 catchup gear on Darkshore so maybe getting a little more gear will smooth it out more with Bomb.  With how much my health was very quickly fluctuating, I didn't feel safe trying to tank even normal  AT at 195 ilvl worrying about wiping the raid with the offensive build lol.  A few more days of catch up gear and I'll give it a shot in raids with Bomb again.