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Starym

8.2 PTR: Soul Cleave Buff and Explanation

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It seems Vengeance Demon Hunters are next in line for some tuning, as the Spirit Bomb Spirit Bomb build is getting a look at. Basically the bomb is too bombastic and forces a certain playstyle, so Blizzard decided to buff Soul Cleave Soul Cleave to diversify it a little. They've also gone into the logic behind buffing "lesser" spells and abilities, the ones that don't get used much, across all classes and specs.

Blizzard LogoSoul Cleave (source)

We’re testing an increase to Soul Cleave Soul Cleave damage in the Rise of Azshara PTR, and we haven’t yet fully written developers’ notes on it. I want to give a little context for it, since this is an issue that relates to many class changes.

A common reaction to buffing a certain spell or talent is “you’re buffing something we don’t use much.” That is, when if we buff a talent that’s not the “best” or buff an ability that’s currently a small part of the rotation, it’s not a large increase to total damage. Sometimes the goal of a buff is to increase the total DPS of a spec, and sometimes it’s to better internally balance something about the rotation or talents. In the former case, we usually buff a slate of prominent spells. In the latter, by definition, we’re buffing something that’s not being used heavily or is being eclipsed by other spells.

Currently, Spirit Bomb Spirit Bomb is very popular and causes a rotation where you want to consume nearly every Orb with Spirit Bomb Spirit Bomb rather than in any other way. This pushes Soul Cleave Soul Cleave pretty far down in value. This is an issue with Spirit Bomb Spirit Bomb as a talent, but our intent isn’t to upend this commonly-used playstyle right now. A buff to Soul Cleave Soul Cleave makes the button compete a little better in between Spirit Bomb Spirit Bombs, even at the cost of consuming some Fragments that otherwise would have gone into Spirit Bomb Spirit Bomb. It’s also a side benefit that this is a straightforward buff for people playing talents other than Spirit Bomb.

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Well when the spirit bomb does. Good chunk of aoe damage , and puts a buff healing the dh for a portion of the damage yeah ! It’s going to be used way more often rather then a lesser frontal Cleave and lesser heal . Even with the dot heal you can spec into spirit bomb is an excellent choice the the only way to balance the players choice is to increase the heal to competeable amount , with increase damage so if it’s a Cleve fight maybe it will compete more    

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This is only a portion of what they are looking into for DH.  They were also looking at ways to increase mitigation instead of constantly using Demon Spikes.  I know there are a lot of individuals that do not like Spirit Bomb and wished for a different talent to choose from but the other two do not deliver as intended aka Gluttony and Fel Devastation.  I've also tried several of the other talents and found them less satisfactory.   But I am, as for now, taking this information from this blue post with a grain of salt.  And the reason why is the new HoA Essence system for 8.2; this will dictate on what a player can and can not do with select talents put in place.

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so now they just need to do the same for frost dks and breath of sindragosa... so unfun to play for years now. only 1 viable lvl 100 talent.

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9 minutes ago, inteus said:

so now they just need to do the same for frost dks and breath of sindragosa... so unfun to play for years now. only 1 viable lvl 100 talent.

Pretty sure the machine gun build was popular aswell

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2 hours ago, Kotaso said:

Pretty sure the machine gun build was popular aswell

that dosnt really justify only having 1 viable talent for years. breath build has been the only one used since legion.

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4 hours ago, inteus said:

that dosnt really justify only having 1 viable talent for years. breath build has been the only one used since legion.

You sound incredibly petty and childish, do you know that? 

Anyway, the blue post clearly said they were "testing" this and no one knows their next step or plan. Class balance changes take place in increments; a bit here and then see how the class performs. Then a bit there, and see how the class performs. Classes are incredibly complex to make work well, even in this BfA state of simpleton, stripped down classes. Stop crying, enjoy the fact that they are making changes at all, and wait until it's on live to criticize. 

At the end of the day there is not a single class or spec that can't do all end game content. Just because people choose to play the "better" specs doesn't change that fact. Just to prove that point, my cutting edge guild runs with a blood dk and guardian druid.

Edited by Demonpuke

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9 hours ago, Demonpuke said:

You sound incredibly petty and childish, do you know that? 

yEESH...
"incredibly" ?

Hardly.  He wasn't whining.  He's right.  If they are indeed going through classes to rework/buff/nerf over- and under-used abilities and spec/playstyles, Frost Breath build is one.  They even made it 'more fun to play' with one recent pass, as it sat at the numerically highest parsing build.  

"stop crying"

really?  It was one sentence, succinct and to the point.

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14 hours ago, Demonpuke said:

At the end of the day there is not a single class or spec that can't do all end game content. Just because people choose to play the "better" specs doesn't change that fact. Just to prove that point, my cutting edge guild runs with a blood dk and guardian druid.

Last expansion, Guardian Druid was the tank you wanted to bring. The gap in survivability was still there, just like it has been since the days of feral tank in TLK and Cataclysm, but they were able to stack Thrash relics and use Luffa Wrappings to provide a useful boost to DPS. As long as I can remember before that, that's been the main upside to Guardian - they weren't the most sturdy tank, and needed a dedicated healer. But as long as they were kept alive, they would go out there and wreck face. This is the only expansion that their damage has been below par, which has allowed Warriors to slot in their place.

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