A few n00b questions

[EraserHead 1]

I've been having a great time playing the Necro generator Grace of Inarius build on this site and I'm at about paragon 630 or so.  I'm working on getting the ancient pieces for the "LoN Corpse Lance Necromancer" build (also on this site) and I've got a few questions maybe you guys can help me with.  So far I've just been playing solo though I realize there are benefits to playing in a party.

My GoI generator necro is starting to have difficulty pushing grifts above 60 or so.  I've gone up to 70 but I do tend to die now and then.  Is this expected for this build?  If not, what are the likely issues I need to address?  I figure getting "ancient" versions of items is a way to boost stats or trying to get better rolls on non-ancient items (I always upgrade when it makes sense, but not that many of my items are ancients).  My follower is the templar with skills and equip recommended here (thunderfury, freeze, unity, justice lantern, etc).

Second question is for the LoN corpse lance build.  How many of the 13 pieces should be ancient before you get going?  The build leverages thorns, but often thorn's are listed as the last property in the build gear guide.  How many pieces need to have thorns to make the build function?  Lastly, does would you pick an ancient over a normal legendary if the normal legendary has much better stats?

Thanks in advance for any help or insights!

[Knutsanity 15]

It's LoN Command skeletons that does thorns, not corpse lance. Don't worry about thorns if you meant Corpse Lance. On the skeletal mages build thorns is #1 or 2 in priority, except if it is 5th or 6th on the priority list, it's because of the fact it is a secondary roll, not primary. you get 4 or 5 rolls of the big primary stats that help tremendously with almost every build, on every item, and 1 or 2 of the small potatoes stats, called secondary stats that aren't as effective. But with thorns builds only, thorns is very important. The only other important secondary stat is resistances, then maybe health globe potion healing, maybe money for a money build.

For LoN, you progress the more ancients you get, it isn't like other sets. You don't need 2, 4 or 6 for be all end all bonuses. You get incrementally better for each one. Important legendary abilities like Mantle of Channelling for channelling LoN builds are more important than ancients. Certainly the main dmg boosting legendary abilities for the specific dmg skill used, for all LoN builds are even more important. If I had to suggest a number I'd say make sure you have at least 5 ancients to start, but it really doesn't matter. You can start small and do ok at reaching high enough levels with that, compared to other sets you can not do anything without the entire sets. I love LoN for that reason. I suggest saving the best LoN rings, and any awesome ancients in the stash for any new guys you start or for making a switch at some point. And putting everything you can in the cube once. Great regular legendaries can be better than ancients, but it is pretty hard for that to happen, you are talking worst case ancient vs best case regular pretty much. For LoN it is even more rare. Hard to answer that question without specifics of course, but lean heavily towards ancients, and very heavily towards ancients with LoN. With Cooldown rolls, and crit rolls, resource reduction rolls it matters less, because they don't go higher with ancients of course. So that is for you and your builds to figure out really. Truthfully, it shouldn't take too long to get decent ancients with appropriate rolls for all your gear, so you only have to weigh those things for so long. Near perfect ancients or primals however for more than a handful of items takes forever, as far as I can tell, and has never happened for me. 

Decently appropriate ancients for more of your items will make a large difference yes. Paragons add up, and caldessan's recipes in the cube eventually will be a big difference too. If you put together a money/gem(broken crown) build for puzzle rings you'll get enough gems and money for that stuff and grifts in no time. Seems way off in the distance, but once you are close to 1 caldessan's worth of extra gems, next thing you know you've got enough gems for many. Getting the legendary gems upgraded in GR's further makes a big difference too. I like Corpse Lance LoN better than Inarus' if that helps, and the progression is less all over the place and more steady I think. I'd do that asap once you have the main leg abilities. Too each their own though. Corpse lance is also easier and more effective when you have team mates to make you more corpses. 


 

[Knutsanity 15]

I tinkered with my LoN CL build, added a stormsheild instead of phylactery, and went with the stun corpse lance instead. Over powered offensive build, not enough defence until playstyle and gear is perfected. So feel free to tinker with builds a bit. These are all end game perfect builds you can work towards and tinker with for balance until you get there. Perfect gear, again, takes god knows how long, you let me know lol. 

[EraserHead 1]

Thank you @Knutsanity!  I actually have something like 10/13 ancients for it, but you are right that I meant the "Necromancer Thorns Command Skeletons Solo Build With LoN Set" build =P

I was worried I would never find a pair of Swamp Land Waders, but oddly I actually got a drop (not ancient) from a grift.  This was the missing piece I needed for the LoN CL build - I will try that out!

Thanks again!

[EraserHead 1]

Hmm... after trying out the LON build LoN Corpse Lance Necromancer Skills and Runes I'm not liking the exact build too much.  At least not for regular runs. 

I actually like the speed farming version of the Inarious build for getting my stock piles and farming has been going relatively well, but of course I'm getting bored with the play style and it's a slight pain respecing for the grifting version.

[Yolo 40]

4 hours ago, EraserHead said:

Hmm... after trying out the LON build LoN Corpse Lance Necromancer Skills and Runes I'm not liking the exact build too much.  At least not for regular runs. 

I actually like the speed farming version of the Inarious build for getting my stock piles and farming has been going relatively well, but of course I'm getting bored with the play style and it's a slight pain respecing for the grifting version.

There is a gardrobe named armory next to your stash - you can save your favorite armor and skill sets to it which makes respecing a breeze. 

[EraserHead 1]

Wow, that makes too much sense, thanks!  That my just save me some time lol =D

8 minutes ago, Yolo said:

There is a gardrobe named armory next to your stash - you can save your favorite armor and skill sets to it which makes respecing a breeze. 

 

[Knutsanity 15]

Yeah for the corpse lance, it really is better with a team mate, then you can always have corpses available. I could see it being an issue for solo. I play co op with a buddy on xbox1 at his place. Also looking at the build page, I didn't just have a nice sheild instead of phylactery for the off hand. I also used the golem skill, golemskin pants for extra dmg reduction, and the gloves that gives the golem the ability to shed a corpse every second. Used the golem rune that has it collapse into a pile of corpses. Cooldown reduction is huge too for Land of the dead for corpses, the main skill for damage for the build. It allows you to play that build solo even. I think the idea is to run around and "herd" (attract them/ avoid attacks) all the enemies into a giant clump in between Land of the dead's. Me and my buddy just kill everything as we go unless we are running short on time. So I've never bothered herding yet. But that is how you would get around the lack of corpses that you need to get the phenomenal offence from the build, it isn't consistent, it gets on a roll.  But my changes to the build balance offence with defence, so much so I can complete a 90 or so on hardcore. Probably gr 85 solo. The extra corpses from the Golem and its gloves and rune, make the down time between Land of the Dead's still capable of decent offence, corpses are the ammo.

My suggestion would be either play with others, or "herd" in the down time, or make the golem change as well. Crazy you got the pants without a witch doctor, lol lucky duck. I can't even get em with a witch doctor lol. But the only good thing about the pants is the 20% elemental damage. Not a huge loss until you are maximising the offence and GR levels, probably past 90, then you'd want to get used to "herding" and going full offence like the suggested build again. It is a super fun one I think, and having 2 builds is great. I switch between 7 classes and like 10 builds total, 1 just wouldn't cut it. Using the armoury for the 2 builds and eventually a money/gem helmet build is an idea for sure. But always take a bit of time getting used to new builds, this one would be real powerful when you figure out how to use it, or how you want to use it. The change is always weird and off putting at first when you are used to doing things another way, the results take a bit. I didn't find that when switching classes, but it always seems like it was a bad idea for a bit when switching builds within the same class. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Knutsanity

[EraserHead 1]

Thank you @Knutsanity, I think the golem skills make a ton of sense with this build.  The build page claims that it is a "solo" build but I think that is tough without the corpse shedding golem ?

I'm also looking at some of the builds people have on the ladder - I realize some of those are equipment specific, but it is giving me some ideas.

[Knutsanity 15]

53 minutes ago, EraserHead said:

Thank you @Knutsanity, I think the golem skills make a ton of sense with this build.  The build page claims that it is a "solo" build but I think that is tough without the corpse shedding golem ?

I'm also looking at some of the builds people have on the ladder - I realize some of those are equipment specific, but it is giving me some ideas.

No worries friend. Ya to actually do it solo would have to involve the herding technique. The offence is great, but you have to get on a roll. You can pop the Land of the dead and that unlimited corpses leaves enough things dead to use as corpses and finish off the rest when LotD runs out. That is what I mean by getting on a roll, once things are dying and turning into more ammo, then you can keep it going until you run out of enemies. Sometimes the less dense and more perfectly spread out rifts can give you a couple minutes straight of running through and killing everything along the way with out even stopping. 
But I suppose I have always used the golem so really I can't confirm the dying enemies would be enough ammo alone in the build on this site. The real issue is which skill to replace with the golem, I don't use the devour. The stand alone passive that gives you 100% armour goes down to 90% but that isn't that bad. It actually goes great with the golem shedding a corpse every second, and the corpse whisperers pauldrens, the shoulders. It helps to have the constant reliable corpses to consume while running through long distances of no enemies, in order to keep the damage stacks up by giving you some corpses to consume. That way you can always be at the max 20 stacks of dmg to start off a fight. You can still use corpse lance for that, which will count and shoot barrels and doors and such, so I go without devour. But of course sometimes there is nothing to break or shoot so you lose the stacks. Maybe you'd prefer the lack of blood rush to that, if movement speed and teleporting out of trouble isn't your worry. Another issue is the Grift guardian of course. But I've yet to encounter 1 I couldn't kill in time. Imagine though, after GR 100 if it isn't one that spawns a bunch of little critters to kill, it wouldn't be a good build for that.