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Brewmaster Haste

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yeah sry brady just forgot to mention that i´m using EH on cd and KS too.


take one Jab out and one EH in for it. The rota isn´t changing. After the rota is KS rdy again.


Meanwhile i switched to Chiex playstyle with 3+ depending on the fight and thats more fun + preparing for p4 smile.png

Nonetheless i personally still value haste as high as multi/crit, especially with the 4p coming in.

But i think that´s just a casual opinion wink.png


and pls don´t explain multi for GOTO or crit for Elusive, i know it.

Nothing wrong with wanting to not improve, just please don't spread your wisdom.

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Nothing wrong with wanting to not improve, just please don't spread your wisdom.


I'm in agreement, here.


There's nothing wrong with any stat really if you are a notably casual brewmaster. Basically everything about the brewmaster is usable to certain extents. Even the talent choice Ascension, which i feel is the worst talent of that tier, can still be used to decent effect, provided the content is easy enough.


That having been said, there is a monumental difference between usability, high-end viability, and a stat being the optimal one for a specific scenario.


900 haste provides the equivalent of 1 chi every 40 seconds. During a 10 minute encounter, this equates to 15 chi.


It's been proven by sims and practical application that 900 of any other stat is going to be more significant for both survival and/or damage. Haste's bonuses to damage are only from more auto-attack hits, which is a very small part of our damage paradigm, and chi-spending offensive abilities. On the other hand, mastery, multistrike, crit, and versatility all provide bonuses to every damage dealing ability we use. In terms of defense, I know that you said you get that GotO and EB scale more with MS and crit respectively than haste, but that does need to be stressed. So really that just leaves chi generation and that is able to be countered by talent choice.


As I've shown earlier in the thread, power strikes is superior to Ascension in terms of chi generation provided equal haste.


Take 900 haste with Ascension and 900 mastery with power strikes. Your chi generation will be relatively similar, as I had shown... but with Power Strikes, you're getting that chi for free rather than building it with haste. This means you have that 900 stat points available for more powerful and more meaningful secondaries. So you ultimately end up with equal chi generation, but more survivability on the end of power strikes.


But what about if you use haste AND power strikes? Well then you have to think about how we function around chi. During a 10 minute fight, as said, you would get 15 more chi with 900 haste. Is that necessary for survival? Current anecdotal evidence from high end brewmasters says no. The chi from power strikes and Serenity is more than enough (WAY MORE than enough, really) to guarantee survival. Even with Chi Explosion, high end brewmasters who are ignoring haste are able to purify 70+% of their stagger damage. That is fairly significant. With Serenity, that number is bumped up to 90%. And this was honestly true way back in MoP. Standard energy regen allowed for maximum uptime of shuffle, max usage of Guard, and a bit of purifying. And in terms of raw damage, you're going to be surviving far easier with 900 mastery or crit than 900 haste. Because stats are a zero sum game, getting more of one stat has an inherent opportunity cost. Talking just mastery and crit, the two big stats you're probably going to stack (though Mastery / MS is becoming more popular, but thats a rant for another thread), the opportunity cost of 900 haste is 900 points in a stat that is better at smoothing damage as it lops off a percentage of a spiky hit rather than lopping off a percentage of a DoT or 900 points in a stat that is better at negating damage entirely rather than making a DoT hurt less. Either way you slice it there, that 15 chi spread out over a 10 minute encounter is not going to be as significant as stats which affect you constantly (or in the case of crit, more frequently) throughout an encounter.


So that leaves damage. Our biggest damage dealing ability is one that has zero haste scaling. Keg Smash hits like a truck and is on a cooldown, so energy management is what will provide more optimal usage of it rather than more haste outright. Secondly, and this is an interesting part of the paradigm, but Tiger Palm is also a notable damage dealing ability. With more haste, you need to hit Jab more often, in order to ensure you don't cap on energy. Hitting Jab more often means more GCD's are given away to it. Tiger Palm hits more than Jab, and is entirely free. Ergo, more haste means more Jabs which means less Tiger Palms, which means in theory less DPS (when viewing those two abilities in a vacuum). However, that 15 chi WILL translate to more Blackout Kicks or Chi Explosions, depending on your talent choice. Now this is where napkin math is going to start failing because this is a very complex issue. That having been said, this HAS been simmed and the sims do say that the stats that affect all of our abilities will allow for more damage output than the stat that positively affects 3 (technically 5 if you want to talk about "redundant" and unused abilities), and negatively affects 1.


Like I said and like Ailuropoda said, you can absolutely play with haste, but please don't talk about it as if it is the best stat. Or even really a good stat. That is unfortunately false. Please do know that it IS suboptimal. If you don't care about that, that's fine, but when we're talking theorycrafting and what is best, advocating haste sadly isn't really right and unfortunately helps contribute to an already fractured communal understanding of the spec. That's something I personally don't really want to see.


If you can play with haste that high and do okay, that's awesome. But it isn't going to be the best option. That's more or less what is being said here.

Edited by MadBrewmaster
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